Does anyone still not know you can't carry a gun on a plane?

[133743Hokie]

Let me ask a silly question - if you fire a bullet on a plane and it's a through and through (or you just miss the person completely), it's going to rupture the hull and bring the plane down, right?

That's just in the movies. The cabin will depressurize, air masks deployed, plane lowers to 10k feet and lands. It's a structural breach, but not cataclysmic. If it were, one shot could take down a single airplane.

My main problem with the "I could stop a terrorist myself with a gun mindset." is that none of us maintains the type of training necessary to be that effective with a handgun in a high stress situation. I know everyone with a concealed carry permit considers themselves a Navy Seal but the reality is that in an emergency situation, you're way more likely to kill one of your fellow passengers or cause that rapid decompression. There's a reason air marshalls are the only ones allowed to do it and that's because they

Going back to the 9/11 hijackings is also silly. If you were allowed to carry a gun on a plane, don't you think the 9/11 hijackers would ALSO be carrying guns on the plane instead of box cutters? A radicalized person can get a concealed carry permit too.

That's a bunch of BS. You're making crap up, CCW aren't more likely to kill themselves than the bad guys in such a situation. Total fabrication on your part to justify a silly hatred of guns.

With passengers packed in like cattle it is likely that someone with a weapon would hit one of them before they hit a terrorist.

That's ignorant. The passengers are going to duck and seek cover. It's not that different from being at the movies or a theater. Again, the disarming of guns is about hijackings, not additional risk around being on the plane via explosion or people being in tight together.

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

[awesome guy]

Don't waste your breath. Logic left the building a long time ago.

Yep, started with the movie fans thinking CCW folks all believe they're SEALs. Active imaginations ran wild from there. Anti-gun nutters are driven by emotion.

[awesome guy]

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

[USN_Hokie]

That's just in the movies. The cabin will depressurize, air masks deployed, plane lowers to 10k feet and lands. It's a structural breach, but not cataclysmic. If it were, one shot could take down a single airplane.

My main problem with the "I could stop a terrorist myself with a gun mindset." is that none of us maintains the type of training necessary to be that effective with a handgun in a high stress situation. I know everyone with a concealed carry permit considers themselves a Navy Seal but the reality is that in an emergency situation, you're way more likely to kill one of your fellow passengers or cause that rapid decompression. There's a reason air marshalls are the only ones allowed to do it and that's because they

Going back to the 9/11 hijackings is also silly. If you were allowed to carry a gun on a plane, don't you think the 9/11 hijackers would ALSO be carrying guns on the plane instead of box cutters? A radicalized person can get a concealed carry permit too.

That's a bunch of BS. You're making crap up, CCW aren't more likely to kill themselves than the bad guys in such a situation. Total fabrication on your part to justify a silly hatred of guns.

With passengers packed in like cattle it is likely that someone with a weapon would hit one of them before they hit a terrorist.

That's ignorant. The passengers are going to duck and seek cover. It's not that different from being at the movies or a theater. Again, the disarming of guns is about hijackings, not additional risk around being on the plane via explosion or people being in tight together.

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

So how is this scenario (which sounds like it's out of a bad 80s movie) different than a subway? Is there some epidemic of armed citizens plugging old ladies in hostage situations on trains?

Also, the presumption is that the terrorist wants to fly the plane into a building, so tell me again how the guy with a gun potentially missing makes the situation worse?

Who is lacking common sense?

[awesome guy]

My main problem with the "I could stop a terrorist myself with a gun mindset." is that none of us maintains the type of training necessary to be that effective with a handgun in a high stress situation. I know everyone with a concealed carry permit considers themselves a Navy Seal but the reality is that in an emergency situation, you're way more likely to kill one of your fellow passengers or cause that rapid decompression. There's a reason air marshalls are the only ones allowed to do it and that's because they

Going back to the 9/11 hijackings is also silly. If you were allowed to carry a gun on a plane, don't you think the 9/11 hijackers would ALSO be carrying guns on the plane instead of box cutters? A radicalized person can get a concealed carry permit too.

That's a bunch of BS. You're making crap up, CCW aren't more likely to kill themselves than the bad guys in such a situation. Total fabrication on your part to justify a silly hatred of guns.

With passengers packed in like cattle it is likely that someone with a weapon would hit one of them before they hit a terrorist.

That's ignorant. The passengers are going to duck and seek cover. It's not that different from being at the movies or a theater. Again, the disarming of guns is about hijackings, not additional risk around being on the plane via explosion or people being in tight together.

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

So how is this scenario (which sounds like it's out of a bad 80s movie) different than a subway? Is there some epidemic of armed citizens plugging old ladies in hostage situations on trains?

Also, the presumption is that the terrorist wants to fly the plane into a building, so tell me again how the guy with a gun potentially missing makes the situation worse?

Who is lacking common sense?

Apparently, everyone with a gun believes they're Rambo, but really crack under pressure because only Delta Force can handle a gun and shooter. Common sense something or another. We have to diagram every shooter scenario to be sure self defense is bulletproof in the success sense. Planes explode with. 22 caliber holes in the fuselage.

[Major Kong]

FTR I carry every time I fly.

[VisorBoy]

Neat article on the subject:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innova ... -plane.htm

Basically, a bullet hole through the fuselage is not going to cause an issue. A bullet through the window, one that nicks avionics wiring, or one that incapacitates one/both pilots is a larger concern. But even in those cases, backup or manual systems are in place to prevent catastrophic outcomes. However, I'd leave it to the aviation experts to make the call on whether a handgun can accidentally take down a commercial jet, and if CCW is justified on them.

What we could say is that an accidental shooting on a plane may lead to a long time before a victim can get to a hospital, unlike an accidental shooting on terra firma.

[USN_Hokie]

Neat article on the subject:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innova ... -plane.htm

Basically, a bullet hole through the fuselage is not going to cause an issue. A bullet through the window, one that nicks avionics wiring, or one that incapacitates one/both pilots is a larger concern. But even in those cases, backup or manual systems are in place to prevent catastrophic outcomes. However, I'd leave it to the aviation experts to make the call on whether a handgun can accidentally take down a commercial jet, and if CCW is justified on them.

What we could say is that an accidental shooting on a plane may lead to a long time before a victim can get to a hospital, unlike an accidental shooting on terra firma.

Fair points. I think the biggest hurdle is a legal one. States are allowed to make their own gun laws, so someone with a CCW would have to ensure their legality at point of origin, destination, any stops / layovers, etc. An unexpected layover in JFK could land someone in jail, for instance.

[133743Hokie]

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

I'm weapons trained with both 9mm and M4, necessary for the years I've spent in Afghanistan and Iraq so I'm not the ignoramus you play me to be. Again, answer my question. What would you do on a full plane with panic everywhere.

[133743Hokie]

Neat article on the subject:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innova ... -plane.htm

Basically, a bullet hole through the fuselage is not going to cause an issue. A bullet through the window, one that nicks avionics wiring, or one that incapacitates one/both pilots is a larger concern. But even in those cases, backup or manual systems are in place to prevent catastrophic outcomes. However, I'd leave it to the aviation experts to make the call on whether a handgun can accidentally take down a commercial jet, and if CCW is justified on them.

What we could say is that an accidental shooting on a plane may lead to a long time before a victim can get to a hospital, unlike an accidental shooting on terra firma.

Fair points. I think the biggest hurdle is a legal one. States are allowed to make their own gun laws, so someone with a CCW would have to ensure their legality at point of origin, destination, any stops / layovers, etc. An unexpected layover in JFK could land someone in jail, for instance.

Businesses are allowed to determine CC and the airlines, and their attorneys, say no.

[awesome guy]

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

I'm weapons trained with both 9mm and M4, necessary for the years I've spent in Afghanistan and Iraq so I'm not the ignoramus you play me to be. Again, answer my question. What would you do on a full plane with panic everywhere.

Lol. Already answered it Rambo

[ip_law-hokie]

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

I'm weapons trained with both 9mm and M4, necessary for the years I've spent in Afghanistan and Iraq so I'm not the ignoramus you play me to be. Again, answer my question. What would you do on a full plane with panic everywhere.

Lol. Already answered it Rambo

You insulting veterans of foreign conflicts while boasting of your (hypothetical) soldier skills is not a good look for you. Just FYI.

[USN_Hokie]

Neat article on the subject:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innova ... -plane.htm

Basically, a bullet hole through the fuselage is not going to cause an issue. A bullet through the window, one that nicks avionics wiring, or one that incapacitates one/both pilots is a larger concern. But even in those cases, backup or manual systems are in place to prevent catastrophic outcomes. However, I'd leave it to the aviation experts to make the call on whether a handgun can accidentally take down a commercial jet, and if CCW is justified on them.

What we could say is that an accidental shooting on a plane may lead to a long time before a victim can get to a hospital, unlike an accidental shooting on terra firma.

Fair points. I think the biggest hurdle is a legal one. States are allowed to make their own gun laws, so someone with a CCW would have to ensure their legality at point of origin, destination, any stops / layovers, etc. An unexpected layover in JFK could land someone in jail, for instance.

Businesses are allowed to determine CC and the airlines, and their attorneys, say no.

Nope. CC is fine so long as you're one of the King's men.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/law-enforcement

[awesome guy]

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

I'm weapons trained with both 9mm and M4, necessary for the years I've spent in Afghanistan and Iraq so I'm not the ignoramus you play me to be. Again, answer my question. What would you do on a full plane with panic everywhere.

Lol. Already answered it Rambo

You insulting veterans of foreign conflicts while boasting of your (hypothetical) soldier skills is not a good look for you. Just FYI.

He's a building contractor, that's standard training when working overseas. Of course you're feigning concern.

I also get it that you like to invent to invent positions for people, but I never claimed to be a super solider or whatever, just laughed at the made up, full of crap, dumb as rocks position that you and fellow libtards throw out that ONLY a special operator can handle a shooter. There are hundreds of examples each year proving the opposite. This may be a case of "what would I do" thinking leading some to realize that they're pussies and so would act like one in such a situation. Fair enough, you are a pussy and shouldn't be trusted with a weapon. But there are millions of Americans who aren't pussies, have weapons, and would respond appropriately to the shooter.

[ip_law-hokie]

So please enlighten me as to how you would use your weapon (and superior skills) to disarm a terrorist on a plane full of people. So everyone just ducks (not a whole lot of space to duck on today's planes ya know) and you shoot the bad guy center mass (because you know he is just going to be standing tall in the center of the aisle). Boom! All done. Please show a little common sense

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

I'm weapons trained with both 9mm and M4, necessary for the years I've spent in Afghanistan and Iraq so I'm not the ignoramus you play me to be. Again, answer my question. What would you do on a full plane with panic everywhere.

Lol. Already answered it Rambo

You insulting veterans of foreign conflicts while boasting of your (hypothetical) soldier skills is not a good look for you. Just FYI.

He's a building contractor, that's standard training when working overseas. Of course you're feigning concern.

I also get it that you like to invent to invent positions for people, but I never claimed to be a super solider or whatever, just laughed at the made up, full of crap, dumb as rocks position that you and fellow libtards throw out that ONLY a special operator can handle a shooter. There are hundreds of examples each year proving the opposite. This may be a case of "what would I do" thinking leading some to realize that they're pussies and so would act like one in such a situation. Fair enough, you are a pussy and shouldn't be trusted with a weapon. But there are millions of Americans who aren't pussies, have weapons, and would respond appropriately to the shooter.

Got it Rambo! Piece of cake for the manly men sitting on their sofa.

[USN_Hokie]

I look forward to the portion of this thread later on where people say that we should be allowed to carry on planes.

Why not? I look forward to your answer / rationale.

Because it is a danger to all on the plane. And at 36,000 feet there aren't a lot of options.

So you think Air Marshals are a danger?

I know that air marshals are trained with how to deal with various scenarios on a plane full of people at 36,000 feet. 99% of those with CCPs aren't and therefore are less likely to be able to handle the situation appropriately and without endangering others.

I've gone through several military and Blackwater classes while active duty, as well as civilian courses. I led VBSS teams carrying an M9 and a Mk18 to search vessels suspected of violating trade embargoes in the Persian Gulf. I probably shoot 3-4k rnds a year (wish I had time to do more). I carry a gun wherever I can. I've held high level security clearances, pay my bills, and have never even received a parking ticket, let alone a moving violation. So, don't presume that Corporal Gump with the Radford PD is more special than me and endowed with some gifts which allow him the privilege of defending himself while I should be relegated to praying with my family in the back of a plane before it's used as a weapon to kill a thousand people because you're scared I'll wing grandma.

[ip_law-hokie]

I look forward to the portion of this thread later on where people say that we should be allowed to carry on planes.

Why not? I look forward to your answer / rationale.

Because it is a danger to all on the plane. And at 36,000 feet there aren't a lot of options.

So you think Air Marshals are a danger?

I know that air marshals are trained with how to deal with various scenarios on a plane full of people at 36,000 feet. 99% of those with CCPs aren't and therefore are less likely to be able to handle the situation appropriately and without endangering others.

I've gone through several military and Blackwater classes while active duty, as well as civilian courses. I led VBSS teams carrying an M9 and a Mk18 to search vessels suspected of violating trade embargoes in the Persian Gulf. I probably shoot 3-4k rnds a year (wish I had time to do more). I carry a gun wherever I can. I've held high level security clearances, pay my bills, and have never even received a parking ticket, let alone a moving violation. So, don't presume that Corporal Gump with the Radford PD is more special than me and endowed with some gifts which allow him the privilege of defending himself while I should be relegated to praying with my family in the back of a plane before it's used as a weapon to kill a thousand people because you're scared I'll wing grandma.

I bet Corporal Gump enjoys his own glass of wine.

[awesome guy]

Up yours and your condescension. You're way off base and not informed on this.

All situations are unique. If it's a case of the shooter saying "I have a bomb", then shoot him when he stands up. If he has a human shield then you wait for your time. Everyone else is going to lay on the floor, put their heads between their legs, etc. No one is going to be a prairie dog. But you and the other ignoramus don't know that CCW training covers when to take shots, when not too, and how to assess the situation to maximize the protection of life. Additionally, they teach that if you think you'll choke then don't do anything because you die in that situation. Use some common sense and figure that this isn't in your wheelhouse and so you should first learn the subject before making asinine comments.

I'm weapons trained with both 9mm and M4, necessary for the years I've spent in Afghanistan and Iraq so I'm not the ignoramus you play me to be. Again, answer my question. What would you do on a full plane with panic everywhere.

Lol. Already answered it Rambo

You insulting veterans of foreign conflicts while boasting of your (hypothetical) soldier skills is not a good look for you. Just FYI.

He's a building contractor, that's standard training when working overseas. Of course you're feigning concern.

I also get it that you like to invent to invent positions for people, but I never claimed to be a super solider or whatever, just laughed at the made up, full of crap, dumb as rocks position that you and fellow libtards throw out that ONLY a special operator can handle a shooter. There are hundreds of examples each year proving the opposite. This may be a case of "what would I do" thinking leading some to realize that they're pussies and so would act like one in such a situation. Fair enough, you are a pussy and shouldn't be trusted with a weapon. But there are millions of Americans who aren't pussies, have weapons, and would respond appropriately to the shooter.

Got it Rambo! Piece of cake for the manly men sitting on their sofa.

OK weenie.

[nolanvt]

The Rambo nickname is pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ip_law-hokie]

The Rambo nickname is pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually AG used that first to refer to the Afghan and Iraqi war veteran who had the nerve to suggest that lay people may not be the choice to be firing guns in an airplane.

[awesome guy]

The Rambo nickname is pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually AG used that first to refer to the Afghan and Iraqi war veteran who had the nerve to suggest that lay people may not be the choice to be firing guns in an airplane.

I used that first on your fellow pussy elberto. The contractor isn't a vet to my knowledge.

But hey, woman may be able to smell your fear and so that special someone ends up with someone not so cowardly as to let her die instead of doing what is necessary. A sense of self preservation makes ladies leave IP.

[cwtcr hokie]

The Rambo nickname is pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually AG used that first to refer to the Afghan and Iraqi war veteran who had the nerve to suggest that lay people may not be the choice to be firing guns in an airplane.

my FIL will hit anything he is aiming for, my BIL also, neither has ever been in the military or law enforcement but those "lay" people probably have better skills then alot of law enforcement.

[awesome guy]

The Rambo nickname is pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually AG used that first to refer to the Afghan and Iraqi war veteran who had the nerve to suggest that lay people may not be the choice to be firing guns in an airplane.

my FIL will hit anything he is aiming for, my BIL also, neither has ever been in the military or law enforcement but those "lay" people probably have better skills then alot of law enforcement.

The expectation from the sissies is that we'll crack under pressure. Apparently the dichotomy is you can pick one of 1) ripping your shirt off, screaming "not on my plane!" and shooting up everyone Team America style with the vulcan cannon under your seat or 2) shriek like a girl and cry while hiding under the seat. Being sneaky and an opportunist for the best shot while keeping calm is really option 1 according to these guys, something only a tough guy would do.

[ElbertoHokie]

Don't waste your breath. Logic left the building a long time ago.

You're the anti-gun gun owner right?[/quote]

I'm the gun owner that is pro-"more gun control", yes.

[USN_Hokie]

Don't waste your breath. Logic left the building a long time ago.

You're the anti-gun gun owner right?

I'm the gun owner that is pro-"more gun control", yes.[/quote]

No you said you supported government confiscation and would turn your gun(s) in. So, if by "pro more gun control" you mean pro-no more guns, I (and most people) would consider that anti-gun.