Whose opinion has more weight, MSM Democrats...

[UpstateSCHokie]

...or undecided Democrats at a bar in PA? We all already knew that the MSM Democrats decided who "won" the debate before the debate ever got started.

From where I sat, I don't think either of them "won" because I don't think there will be many (or any) memorable moments from this debate. But the fact is, Hillary has been a politician for 30 years with access to inside information that Trump has never had. Yet he stood on the stage with her and went toe to toe.

She may have been a little more composed, but he actually provided more specifics to his answers. His goal for the night was to show he can be Presidential and he largely succeeded. Her goals for the night were to disqualify and him and make herself likeable on which she failed miserably on both counts.

And Trump did all this despite having to debate both Hillary and Lester.

====================================
How Trump won over a bar full of undecideds and Democrats
By Salena Zito
September 26, 2016 | 11:53pm

YOUNGSTOWN, Pa. – Ken Reed sat down at main bar of the Tin Lizzy tavern with two things in mind, to dig into the tavern’s oversized cheese steak and watch the presidential debate.

“I am hungry and undecided in that order,” he said digging into the savory dish in a bar that dates back to 1746.

Kady Letoksy, a paralegal by day, a waitress and bartender at night at the Tin Lizzy sat beside him, at 28 she has never voted before, she is now thinking it might be a good idea.

Letosky entered the evening undecided in a town that is heavily Democratic in registration, her Dad she says is ‘extremely liberal’ her sister the opposite. “Trump had the upper-hand this evening,” she said, citing his command of the back-and-forth between her and Clinton.

Reed, 35, is a registered Democrat and small businessman, “By the end of the debate, Clinton never said a thing to persuade me that she had anything to offer me or my family or my community,” he said sitting at the same bar that had local icons as regulars, such as the late Fred Rogers, and Arnold Palmer who had his own stash of PM Whiskey hidden behind newer bottles of whiskey for his regular visits.

“Have to say Trump had the edge this evening, he came out swinging but also talked about specifics on jobs and the economy,” Reed said.
Modal Trigger
The presidential debate plays on the television at the Tin Lizzy.Photo: Justin Merriman

Reed said Clinton came across as either smug or as though she was reading her resume, adding there was nothing on her resume that reached his life, “I am a small businessman, a farmer, come from a long line of farmers and coal miners, the policies she talked about tonight ultimately either hurt me or ignore me,” he said.

How apropos of this presidential election cycle that these patrons chose the Tin Lizzy – a 266-year-old tavern in this small Westmoreland County town – as the place to watch the historic debate between Clinton and Trump.

The tavern’s namesake is the Model T, the first affordable automobile available to America’s working class, which eventually became slang for something quite different.

If someone said you were “going the way of the Tin Lizzy,” it meant your job or industry was in decline, no longer useful.

That is how today’s cosmopolitan and political classes view Main Street voters – as people whose values, traditions, skills, jobs, and lives are being replaced by something new.
InsideGov | Graphiq

“I’ve been a Democrat all of my life, but when Clinton mentions her husband and the jobs he brought to the country in the nineties it’s not a fair assessment, she is no moderate Democrat the way he was, her policies would not bring back jobs,” said Nathan Nemick.

It burns Nemick when Clinton references her husband, like she did in the debate on trade and jobs, “She is nothing like him,” he said of the Democrat he admired in his youth.

Pennsylvania is a high-stakes state for both candidates, but particularly Clinton, and Westmoreland is a high-stakes county, particularly for Trump.

She needs to win this state, and he needs not just to win this county but to do so by 2,000 more votes than Mitt Romney did in 2012.

Westmoreland is one of about 10 formerly or traditionally Democrat-blue counties across the state where Trump must drive up a higher-than-normal turnout, or even flip them to Republican-red, in order to offset an anticipated high turnout for Clinton in Philadelphia.

The other counties are Cambria, Greene, Fayette and Washington in the southwest corner of the state, and Bucks, Lackawanna, Lancaster, Luzerne and York in the east.

Between 1960 and 2000, Westmoreland County Democrats handily won presidential races with one exception: Ronald Reagan’s 1980 victory.

By 1984, voters here were back to their Democratic allegiances, giving their votes to Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis and Bill Clinton.

When Al Gore turned the party towards its progressive wing in 2000, however, he left behind Westmoreland County Democrats.

Democrats here are more traditional in their values – they are pro-gun, pro-life, pro-coal – something today’s Democratic Party has left no room for.

Trump probably connects better with such voters than did Romney in 2008, or John McCain in 2004; a large part of the reason is his outside-the-box style. Yet, for him to win the state, such voters need to turn out in force – here and elsewhere – to offset Philly’s overwhelming numbers.

Before the debate, the latest CNN poll showed a virtual tie in the Keystone State.

Outside the bar a lone sign lit up the quiet corner of the old Lincoln Highway, “RIP Mr. Palmer, Forever in our hearts” honoring the late Arnold Palmer who died Sunday.

“He was just a regular guy, just a working class guy at heart like everyone else around here,” said Jim Sciabica, the unofficial bar manager and small businessman, who kept “Mr. Palmer’s” PM Whiskey tucked in a corner away from patrons and workers.

http://nypost.com/2016/09/26/the-best-d ... e-the-bar/

[UpstateSCHokie]

Or how about a focus group of voters in NC?

========================

September 27, 2016 6:27 AM
Presidential debate surprise: Clinton loses ground among some voters in North Carolina
By David Lightman and Tim Funk
McClatchy Washington Bureau

Kae Roberts and Jay Eardly were leaning toward Hillary Clinton before Monday night’s debate.

By the end, they had both pulled away.

John Kokos and Hank Federal were undecided going in, potential Clinton backers.

By the end, they’d ruled her out.

Indeed, while polls said that Clinton won the first general election debate with Donald Trump Monday, she may not have won actual votes. And she may even have lost some, at least in the battleground state of North Carolina.

In a focus group of 21 voters from around Charlotte conducted by McClatchy and the Charlotte Observer, four who were up for grabs before the debate moved away from her by the end.

The racially diverse group included seven Republicans, six Democrats, seven unaffiliated voters and one Libertarian. Their votes are crucial in one of the nation’s key swing states, one in which Trump and Clinton are neck-and-neck in the most recent polls. They live in or around a city rocked in recent days by turmoil over last week’s police shooting of an African-American man.

That the state is pivotal is clear. Clinton will campaign in Raleigh on Tuesday. Trump had planned to make a post-debate trip to Charlotte Tuesday but agreed to reschedule in the wake of the shooting and violence that taxed local authorities. He’s expected in the state soon.

The closeness of the race – even after a seeming Clinton win in the debate – was underscored in the hour-long discussion with voters after watching the debate at Queens University of Charlotte.

For the four who emerged less impressed by Clinton, it was the seeming familiarity of her proposals for the economy and national security that was a turnoff.

Roberts, who is unaffiliated with a party, wrote in her notes several times during the debate that Clinton offered “pie in the sky” ideas. By debate’s end, she had moved from leaning toward Clinton to undecided.

“The things she says she’s going to do, there’s no substance behind it,” Roberts said.

One potential winner in the focus group was Johnson, who benefited largely because so many voters were annoyed at both Trump and Clinton.

“I was looking for Hillary to convince me, but I’m not getting the Hillary I’m looking for,” particularly on taxes, said Eardly, an unaffiliated voter. By the end of the debate, he’d moved from Clinton to considering Johnson.

Kokos, who works in Hickory, said before the debate he was undecided. Afterwards, he ruled out Clinton and appeared open to either Johnson and Trump. “The things she said were out of an old playbook,” he said of Clinton.

Before the debate, the tally was nine Clinton, three Trump, six undecided and three Johnson. Afterward, it became seven Clinton, three Trump, six undecided and five Johnson.

Johnson, said supporters, was an agent of change, but didn’t have Trump’s bombast. While they didn’t have many specific reasons for moving his way, they are intrigued.

“I wish he’d been at the debate,” said Federal, a Republican who was undecided before the debate.

Many thought Clinton did better on style and debating points, but she didn’t move them. “Hillary was much cleaner in her evasions,” said Federal, who called Trump “bombastic.”

Clinton did get accolades from the four African-American voters in the group. They recoiled at Trump’s notion that their communities are awful places. They praised Clinton for her backing for community policing and promoting dialogue between police and community leaders.

“She has the things we need to change,” said Rev. Ray Shawn McKinnon, who had been a supporter of Clinton Democratic rival Bernie Sanders but is not squarely for her.

Clinton’s challenge among black voters is not necessarily to win more support -- polls show her with a huge lead over Trump -- but to get them to turn out.

Aisha Dew, who had chaired Sanders’ North Carolina campaign, came away pleased at what she heard Monday. “Sanders was stronger on social justice,” she said, but Clinton convinced her she could be equally strong.

“She checked off a lot of the boxes Bernie had,” added Hiwot Hailu, a Queens University student who had been leaning toward Clinton but found the debate helped solidify her support.

Trump had only three supporters before the debate, but held on to them.

“I agree we’re in a bubble,” said Claire Mahoney, who had supported Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., in the Republican primary over Trump.

She’s now all for Trump, particularly as he argued the nation’s economy is being artificially propped up by historically low interest rates and that the Federal Reserve Board bows to political pressure. Mecklenburg County Commissioner Matthew Ridenour, another Rubio backer, saw Trump’s idea of lowering taxes as an important job creator.

But Trump couldn’t capitalize on the lack of enthusiasm for Clinton. The debate, said James Brown, an unaffiliated voter, “was like a ‘Saturday Night Live’ skit. I got absolutely nothing out of this.” He’s considering Johnson.

“Clinton was more of the same, but Trump presented himself as very rough, unpolished,” said John Fitzgerald, an unaffiliated voter.

Asked whether they could see either Clinton or Trump as president, eight said neither of them qualified.

Yet, most said they would tune in to the next round of debates, including the vice presidential candidates Oct. 4 and Trump and Clinton again Oct. 9 and 19. But before they finally make up their minds, they want specifics and civility.

“I’d like to see each candidate talk about the other side’s issues,” said Marcus Ramos-Pearson, who’s leaning Clinton. “I want to see Donald Trump talk more about social justice.”

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/p ... rylink=cpy

[BigDave]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

[133743Hokie]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

Bam!

[VisorBoy]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

WADR, Trump did not look Presidential. He sounded juvenile and unprepared.

[UpstateSCHokie]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

WADR, Trump did not look Presidential. He sounded juvenile and unprepared.

Nope you're wrong. Not surprising given that you see everything through lib colored glasses.

==================================

Trump pulled off presidential: James Robbins
James S. Robbins 11:50 p.m. EDT September 26, 2016

You can’t fact check leadership, and tonight Donald Trump showed himself a leader.

In the run-up to the Hofstra presidential debate, the Clinton campaign mounted a concerted effort to make fact-checking the centerpiece of the event. Campaign manager Robby Mook argued that "it’s unfair to ask that Hillary Clinton both play traffic cop with Trump, make sure that his lies are corrected, and also to present her vision for what she wants to do for the American people." Mook said that if Trump “lied,” it was moderator Lester Holt’s responsibility to point that out.

Fact-checking has never been an accepted role for debate moderators. Janet Brown, head of the Commission on Presidential Debates, said that a moderator should not “serve as the Encyclopedia Britannica.” And moderator Candy Crowley’s ill-advised intervention against Mitt Romney in 2012 showed why fact checking on the fly is a bad idea.

It was strange that the truth-challenged Clinton would want to make an issue of facts. But there was certainly no shortage of checking. Veteran debate moderator Bob Schieffer said that “the chief fact-checkers are the candidates,” and Clinton and Trump agreed, vigorously challenging each other over facts, policies and opinions. In addition, the social media hive-mind was scrutinizing every word in real time. Anyone who needed to track down a fact had the entire connected world at their disposal.

Even in the pre-internet age, moderators did not see themselves as real-time arbiters of the ground truth. There were five journalists on the stage in October 1980 during the debate between Democratic President Jimmy Carter and Republican challenger Ronald Reagan, and none of them felt compelled to question the facts. Carter and Reagan took care of that. Fact checking was the occasion for Reagan’s memorable comment, “there you go again,” when he was taking exception to Carter’s representation of his views on Medicare.

Overall, Carter kept Reagan on the defensive, and the president probably won on points. However, Reagan’s affability and easy manner wore well against Carter’s stern lecturing. Reagan did not come off as the cartoonish, conservative cowboy of Democratic talking points. The Lowell Sun observed, “Ronald Reagan had not self-destructed. He had not made any ill-advised statements that were clearly foolish, as Carter had hoped. Reagan appeared calm under Carter’s attack. With his polished stage manner, he went a long way in presenting himself as presidential timber.” Many Americans agreed. A Gallup poll two days before the debate showed Reagan trailing Carter 39% to 47%. A week later, Reagan won the election 51% to 41%.

The same words could apply to 2016. Donald Trump did not self-destruct, he did not make foolish statements (whether you agree with him or not), he gave as well as he got. And despite Clinton’s numerous mocking remarks to the contrary, he came off as presidential. And that’s a fact.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /91141618/

[absolutvt03]

And that’s a fact.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/[b]opinion[/b]/2016/09/26/trump-clinton-debate-hofstra-1980-reagan-carter-james-robbins-column/91141618/

[Attila T Hun]

As evidenced by UWS lefty posters, the MSM tells them who won....Right posters, not so much..

[VisorBoy]

As evidenced by UWS lefty posters, the MSM tells them who won....Right posters, not so much..

You're confusing agreement and causation.

[Attila T Hun]

As a lefty would say, whatever.

[absolutvt03]

As evidenced by UWS lefty posters, the MSM tells them who won....Right posters, not so much..

Yeah they prefer opt-in online polls...

[Attila T Hun]

LOL...DNC should change to Lemming National Committee or LNC.

[hawk1965]

Anyone who thinks that bumbling,water gupping,snorting,interrupting rude excuse for a man won last night is beyond saving.
If you are so uneducated as to believe nafta was a Bill Clinton idea then you are plain out stupid.He just agreed with the republicans and did not fight them.Result, 8 great years of economic growth with old Bill in control.Not saying the growth was because of nafta,but it did not hurt.
Nafta was going to past even if papa Bush had won.Besides that was 20 years ago, and things change over 20 years.Nafta was never intended to be the one all be all.
Plus for the most part the republicans have controlled the house and senate much more than the dems over the last 20 years,where have they been, all you Trump goose steppers?
Hillary flat out kicked big mouths ass last night, and all the lies that that horse tooth donkey( Kelly Anne Conway)spouts is not going to change the results.That blond bimbo has the correct name,CON.If the people quoted above actually said what is reported ,then Bill Maher is right,the American public is stupid.
Although this should be no surprise:you people bought into prohibition,burning witches,Nixon's secret plan for Viet Nam,who lost China,the panama canal,the national debt only matters when the dems are in control ,on and on.Your record has not been good,but your stupidity has been consistent.

[133743Hokie]

Anyone who thinks that bumbling,water gupping,snorting,interrupting rude excuse for a man won last night is beyond saving.
If you are so uneducated as to believe nafta was a Bill Clinton idea then you are plain out stupid.He just agreed with the republicans and did not fight them.Result, 8 great years of economic growth with old Bill in control.Not saying the growth was because of nafta,but it did not hurt.
Nafta was going to past even if papa Bush had won.Besides that was 20 years ago, and things change over 20 years.Nafta was never intended to be the one all be all.
Plus for the most part the republicans have controlled the house and senate much more than the dems over the last 20 years,where have they been, all you Trump goose steppers?
Hillary flat out kicked big mouths ass last night, and all the lies that that horse tooth donkey( Kelly Anne Conway)spouts is not going to change the results.That blond bimbo has the correct name,CON.If the people quoted above actually said what is reported ,then Bill Maher is right,the American public is stupid.
Although this should be no surprise:you people bought into prohibition,burning witches,Nixon's secret plan for Viet Nam,who lost China,the panama canal,the national debt only matters when the dems are in control ,on and on.Your record has not been good,but your stupidity has been consistent.

Wow, anger and loss of facts

[hawk1965]

O.K. fox consumer,what facts do you dispute?Did the economy not grow under Bill?Did the stock market not increase for 8 consecutive years?Was inflation not under control?Did he not win a war in Eastern Europe?Did Bill not go after Osama while Newt,Dennis,Starr,and the republican congress fiddle around chasing one Trump up charge after another until they found that old Bill got a b.j.Oh wow!Newt was screwing around on his wife,Dennis abused little boys,and you see the moral integrity of Ken Starr.But Bill gets impeached on a trap charge of perjury.
You do know that Trumps big punch line is Clinton and nafta ,but it was Papa Bush who actually did NAFTA?
Or are you like that idiot,Tucker Carson,and his friends on Fox that stated Trump won?Their ass and jobs depend on peddling their 20+ year lie to you non top floor elevator riders ,and not report that bumbling idiot(Trump) is telling one lie after another?
Remember it was Hitler and Goebbels(sp.) who stated, tell a big lie over and over until it is taken as truth.Boy did the Germans not fall for that,and now the Fox world is repeating history.
Prohibition did happen,Nixon had no plan for Viet Nam and left the country with his tail between his legs,inflation did consume the 70's,no one lost China-it was never ours to lose. You people let Nixon skate but crucified Jane Fonda to this day for what she now says was a stupid mistake going to Nam.
So keep making excuses for that lying blow hard,bury your head in the sand and believe all those manufactured scandals on Hillary are really real.If the country is screwed up you and Fox did the screwing.
Donald pretends he is running because D.C. is messed up,well it is Mitch,Ryan, and the republicans that messed it up.Yet you people keep sending them back.

[USN_Hokie]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

WADR, Trump did not look Presidential. He sounded juvenile and unprepared.

Sounds like you're talking about Obama's first term.

[awesome guy]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

WADR, Trump did not look Presidential. He sounded juvenile and unprepared.

Sounds like you're talking about Obama's first term.

Obama is black and so the left gives him the diversity grading scale. He's Jimmy Carter the 2nd to everyone else.

[133743Hokie]

O.K. fox consumer,what facts do you dispute?Did the economy not grow under Bill?Did the stock market not increase for 8 consecutive years?Was inflation not under control?Did he not win a war in Eastern Europe?Did Bill not go after Osama while Newt,Dennis,Starr,and the republican congress fiddle around chasing one Trump up charge after another until they found that old Bill got a b.j.Oh wow!Newt was screwing around on his wife,Dennis abused little boys,and you see the moral integrity of Ken Starr.But Bill gets impeached on a trap charge of perjury.
You do know that Trumps big punch line is Clinton and nafta ,but it was Papa Bush who actually did NAFTA?
Or are you like that idiot,Tucker Carson,and his friends on Fox that stated Trump won?Their ass and jobs depend on peddling their 20+ year lie to you non top floor elevator riders ,and not report that bumbling idiot(Trump) is telling one lie after another?
Remember it was Hitler and Goebbels(sp.) who stated, tell a big lie over and over until it is taken as truth.Boy did the Germans not fall for that,and now the Fox world is repeating history.
Prohibition did happen,Nixon had no plan for Viet Nam and left the country with his tail between his legs,inflation did consume the 70's,no one lost China-it was never ours to lose. You people let Nixon skate but crucified Jane Fonda to this day for what she now says was a stupid mistake going to Nam.
So keep making excuses for that lying blow hard,bury your head in the sand and believe all those manufactured scandals on Hillary are really real.If the country is screwed up you and Fox did the screwing.
Donald pretends he is running because D.C. is messed up,well it is Mitch,Ryan, and the republicans that messed it up.Yet you people keep sending them back.

NAFTA had little to nothing to do with the economic growth of the 90s.

Not sure what eastern European war you are talking about that Clinton won? The Yugoslavian breakup? That was very much a NATO effort.

Clinton actually passed on the opportunity to kill Bin Laden; that's one of his biggest errors as president.

You truly are clueless if you think Clinton's perjury was a "trap charge". He lied, he knew he was lying, and he got caught.

"Tell a big lie over and over until it becomes the truth". Is that a Hillary! campaign slogan?

Nixon skated? I would say resigning the presidency in disgrace is hardly skating.

I could go on, but you get the idea -- you don't know what you're rambling about.

[RiverguyVT]

Hawk is a great addition here. Don't know what I'd do without him

[hawk1965]

Wow-I hope you are a fan and not a Tech Alum.As one in business I can assure the low prices of imports had a lot to do with the economy,just ask Wal-Mart.
A nato exercise,what the hell was Libya ,or for that matter Iraq.Sure promoted as an exercise of the willing.
At the time Osama was not Osamo,just another middle east radical hell bent on destroying the west.Nice Fox quote but where were the republicans at this time?Chasing after secretaries,poking little boys,screming at the top of their lungs oh what a disgrace the big cheese is because he loves the kitty.Your crowd and Falwell was on Clinton's ass the minute he was elected.Just like Obamo.
I see you have no answer for the 8 years of growth,just luck I suppose.Just as, just bad luck we tanked as soon as Bush 2 came into office.
Plus ,you right wing radical,you have no idea how much I hate to type that last sentence as I really liked Papa,and think baby is a super guy,unfortunely badly informed and poorly served.
But enough,there was no reasoning with the prohibitionist,no reasoning with the crowd who thought the
Canal was ours forever,etc.Just pray we have enough reasonable people to keep that bumbling idiot out of the white house.
Last,Nixon was forced out because of other issues,not the disgraceful way he handled Viet Nam.In fact you idiots gave him a second term without a pause.Yet,you come here and cry"wull he couda had Osamo earlier",dumb ass prexundunt.
Well Papa could have Sadoom earlier,the Brits Hitler,Reagan the Iranian leader,etc,your argument has no merit.

[USN_Hokie]

Wow-I hope you are a fan and not a Tech Alum.As one in business I can assure the low prices of imports had a lot to do with the economy,just ask Wal-Mart.
A nato exercise,what the hell was Libya ,or for that matter Iraq.Sure promoted as an exercise of the willing.
At the time Osama was not Osamo,just another middle east radical hell bent on destroying the west.Nice Fox quote but where were the republicans at this time?Chasing after secretaries,poking little boys,screming at the top of their lungs oh what a disgrace the big cheese is because he loves the kitty.Your crowd and Falwell was on Clinton's ass the minute he was elected.Just like Obamo.
I see you have no answer for the 8 years of growth,just luck I suppose.Just as, just bad luck we tanked as soon as Bush 2 came into office.
Plus ,you right wing radical,you have no idea how much I hate to type that last sentence as I really liked Papa,and think baby is a super guy,unfortunely badly informed and poorly served.
But enough,there was no reasoning with the prohibitionist,no reasoning with the crowd who thought the
Canal was ours forever,etc.Just pray we have enough reasonable people to keep that bumbling idiot out of the white house.
Last,Nixon was forced out because of other issues,not the disgraceful way he handled Viet Nam.In fact you idiots gave him a second term without a pause.Yet,you come here and cry"wull he couda had Osamo earlier",dumb ass prexundunt.
Well Papa could have Sadoom earlier,the Brits Hitler,Reagan the Iranian leader,etc,your argument has no merit.

Space bar for $200, Alex.

[RiverguyVT]

This guy is great

[BG Hokie]

Both candidates looked presidential and I could almost forget for a few minutes that they are both compulsive liars and career criminals.

WADR, Trump did not look Presidential. He sounded juvenile and unprepared.

My thinking is that he always sounds like that and so to the folks it matters to, it's no longer a surprise and to the folks it doesn't matter to, they either don't know or are completely unphased by it and like his "Main Street" way of talking and arguing.

[133743Hokie]

Wow-I hope you are a fan and not a Tech Alum.As one in business I can assure the low prices of imports had a lot to do with the economy,just ask Wal-Mart.
A nato exercise,what the hell was Libya ,or for that matter Iraq.Sure promoted as an exercise of the willing.
At the time Osama was not Osamo,just another middle east radical hell bent on destroying the west.Nice Fox quote but where were the republicans at this time?Chasing after secretaries,poking little boys,screming at the top of their lungs oh what a disgrace the big cheese is because he loves the kitty.Your crowd and Falwell was on Clinton's ass the minute he was elected.Just like Obamo.
I see you have no answer for the 8 years of growth,just luck I suppose.Just as, just bad luck we tanked as soon as Bush 2 came into office.
Plus ,you right wing radical,you have no idea how much I hate to type that last sentence as I really liked Papa,and think baby is a super guy,unfortunely badly informed and poorly served.
But enough,there was no reasoning with the prohibitionist,no reasoning with the crowd who thought the
Canal was ours forever,etc.Just pray we have enough reasonable people to keep that bumbling idiot out of the white house.
Last,Nixon was forced out because of other issues,not the disgraceful way he handled Viet Nam.In fact you idiots gave him a second term without a pause.Yet,you come here and cry"wull he couda had Osamo earlier",dumb ass prexundunt.
Well Papa could have Sadoom earlier,the Brits Hitler,Reagan the Iranian leader,etc,your argument has no merit.

LOL! Love the crazy stream-of-consciousness (unconsciousness?) post.

[USN_Hokie]

Wow-I hope you are a fan and not a Tech Alum.As one in business I can assure the low prices of imports had a lot to do with the economy,just ask Wal-Mart.
A nato exercise,what the hell was Libya ,or for that matter Iraq.Sure promoted as an exercise of the willing.
At the time Osama was not Osamo,just another middle east radical hell bent on destroying the west.Nice Fox quote but where were the republicans at this time?Chasing after secretaries,poking little boys,screming at the top of their lungs oh what a disgrace the big cheese is because he loves the kitty.Your crowd and Falwell was on Clinton's ass the minute he was elected.Just like Obamo.
I see you have no answer for the 8 years of growth,just luck I suppose.Just as, just bad luck we tanked as soon as Bush 2 came into office.
Plus ,you right wing radical,you have no idea how much I hate to type that last sentence as I really liked Papa,and think baby is a super guy,unfortunely badly informed and poorly served.
But enough,there was no reasoning with the prohibitionist,no reasoning with the crowd who thought the
Canal was ours forever,etc.Just pray we have enough reasonable people to keep that bumbling idiot out of the white house.
Last,Nixon was forced out because of other issues,not the disgraceful way he handled Viet Nam.In fact you idiots gave him a second term without a pause.Yet,you come here and cry"wull he couda had Osamo earlier",dumb ass prexundunt.
Well Papa could have Sadoom earlier,the Brits Hitler,Reagan the Iranian leader,etc,your argument has no merit.

LOL! Love the crazy stream-of-consciousness (unconsciousness?) post.

I still contend he (it...ze?) is a bot which just stitches together posts from DU.