Is this a great country or what?

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RWNJ
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Is this a great country or what?

Post by RWNJ »

Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
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Hokie5150
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Hokie5150 »

RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.
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Marine Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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Homebrew
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Homebrew »

Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
How would the IRS continue to exist?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
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Marine Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

You don't have to know how the cotton will be picked to know that slavery is wrong.
Homebrew wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
How would the IRS continue to exist?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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Hokie5150
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Hokie5150 »

Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
another matter altogether...
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Marine Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

Hokie5150 wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
another matter altogether...
True, but I think the focus of your post is wrong. The point of the "criminal justice system" is supposed to make people repay their debt to a mythical society. If you steal from someone, there isn't an entity, society, who was violated. The focus should be on restitution in favor of the actual victim. Victim compensation should be the goal. If that's the case, a criminal who's violated someone shouldn't get any compensation, because there's nothing for which to compensate them.

Of course in this system, people who've committed "crimes" like using drugs, not paying their taxes, or carrying a gun in DC wouldn't be in prison, since there's no actual victim.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
HokieFanDC
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by HokieFanDC »

Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
another matter altogether...
True, but I think the focus of your post is wrong. The point of the "criminal justice system" is supposed to make people repay their debt to a mythical society. If you steal from someone, there isn't an entity, society, who was violated. The focus should be on restitution in favor of the actual victim. Victim compensation should be the goal. If that's the case, a criminal who's violated someone shouldn't get any compensation, because there's nothing for which to compensate them.

Of course in this system, people who've committed "crimes" like using drugs, not paying their taxes, or carrying a gun in DC wouldn't be in prison, since there's no actual victim.
That's not the only goal of the criminal justice system. That's restorative justice and our criminal system is more than that. Deterrence. Installing, regulating the values of the time. Rehabilitation. Some form of retribution.
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Marine Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote: That's not the only goal of the criminal justice system. That's restorative justice and our criminal system is more than that. Deterrence. Installing, regulating the values of the time. Rehabilitation. Some form of retribution.
Right. I'm saying that compensating the victim is justice. Punishing someone for violating your personal morals isn't just.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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USN_Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by USN_Hokie »

Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
RWNJ wrote:Let's get the non-compromising idiot in the WH to start acting like a leader. I know that's hopeless.

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-prison ... index.html
I've always thought that all prisoners should have to work and that their compensation would be room and board.

Even better would be to end the kidnapping of non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.
another matter altogether...
True, but I think the focus of your post is wrong. The point of the "criminal justice system" is supposed to make people repay their debt to a mythical society. If you steal from someone, there isn't an entity, society, who was violated. The focus should be on restitution in favor of the actual victim. Victim compensation should be the goal. If that's the case, a criminal who's violated someone shouldn't get any compensation, because there's nothing for which to compensate them.

Of course in this system, people who've committed "crimes" like using drugs, not paying their taxes, or carrying a gun in DC wouldn't be in prison, since there's no actual victim.
You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?

ETA: I would heartily agree that there are way too many things which are against the law....because it's against the law (I'm trying to remember the latin term for this and it's KILLING ME right now). I was just reading this morning that a "Maryland code enforcement officer" was setting up a sting and fining people for "illegal removal of recyclables" from someone's curb. What did she do? She parked a perfectly good bicycle next to someone's garbage and waited for someone to pick it up. Then she pulled them over/stopped them and wrote a $100 ticket.

With that said, I do think we need a limited amount of laws (and once again, I think this is the flaw in libertarian thinking) to prevent people from doing things which pose a easily recognizable threat to others.
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Marine Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote: You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?
Should it be legal to walk around DC with a loaded firearm, as long as you don't shoot anything?


I hope you understand I'm not advocating driving drunk at 120mph. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined who hasn't even hurt anyone.
What should the cutoff be for speed and/or intoxication? .08 and whatever the speed limit signs happen to be on that particular road? Both have more to do with politics and revenue collection than safety.
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by USN_Hokie »

Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?
Should it be legal to walk around DC with a loaded firearm, as long as you don't shoot anything?


I hope you understand I'm not advocating driving drunk at 120mph. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined who hasn't even hurt anyone.
What should the cutoff be for speed and/or intoxication? .08 and whatever the speed limit signs happen to be on that particular road? Both have more to do with politics and revenue collection than safety.
There's a very important distinction between those two examples, and I'm not advocating that someone's life be ruined over a DUI (and I agree that DUI enforcement has wandered into the absurd as of late).
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?
Should it be legal to walk around DC with a loaded firearm, as long as you don't shoot anything?


I hope you understand I'm not advocating driving drunk at 120mph. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined who hasn't even hurt anyone.
What should the cutoff be for speed and/or intoxication? .08 and whatever the speed limit signs happen to be on that particular road? Both have more to do with politics and revenue collection than safety.
There's a very important distinction between those two examples, and I'm not advocating that someone's life be ruined over a DUI (and I agree that DUI enforcement has wandered into the absurd as of late).
You're taking it to an extreme. If not .08 and whatever the speed limit sign on a particular road says, then what is the cutoff for someone who doesn't hurt anyone? .09 and 75mph? .1 and 85mph?

I have a problem with criminalizing the alcoholic content of someone's blood instead of the actions the hurt someone. DUI laws that potentially ruin the life of someone safely driving after two beers don't keep anyone safe.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by USN_Hokie »

Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?
Should it be legal to walk around DC with a loaded firearm, as long as you don't shoot anything?


I hope you understand I'm not advocating driving drunk at 120mph. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined who hasn't even hurt anyone.
What should the cutoff be for speed and/or intoxication? .08 and whatever the speed limit signs happen to be on that particular road? Both have more to do with politics and revenue collection than safety.
There's a very important distinction between those two examples, and I'm not advocating that someone's life be ruined over a DUI (and I agree that DUI enforcement has wandered into the absurd as of late).
You're taking it to an extreme. If not .08 and whatever the speed limit sign on a particular road says, then what is the cutoff for someone who doesn't hurt anyone? .09 and 75mph? .1 and 85mph?

I have a problem with criminalizing the alcoholic content of someone's blood instead of the actions the hurt someone. DUI laws that potentially ruin the life of someone safely driving after two beers don't keep anyone safe.
I agree with just about everything you said here, but I don't think this needs to be the all or nothing, take it or leave it proposition you've laid out.

I'm not saying there's a happy medium, but rather, a different way to approach it altogether.
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?
Should it be legal to walk around DC with a loaded firearm, as long as you don't shoot anything?


I hope you understand I'm not advocating driving drunk at 120mph. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined who hasn't even hurt anyone.
What should the cutoff be for speed and/or intoxication? .08 and whatever the speed limit signs happen to be on that particular road? Both have more to do with politics and revenue collection than safety.
There's a very important distinction between those two examples, and I'm not advocating that someone's life be ruined over a DUI (and I agree that DUI enforcement has wandered into the absurd as of late).
You're taking it to an extreme. If not .08 and whatever the speed limit sign on a particular road says, then what is the cutoff for someone who doesn't hurt anyone? .09 and 75mph? .1 and 85mph?

I have a problem with criminalizing the alcoholic content of someone's blood instead of the actions the hurt someone. DUI laws that potentially ruin the life of someone safely driving after two beers don't keep anyone safe.
I agree with just about everything you said here, but I don't think this needs to be the all or nothing, take it or leave it proposition you've laid out.

I'm not saying there's a happy medium, but rather, a different way to approach it altogether.
I agree. What's your way?
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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USN_Hokie
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by USN_Hokie »

Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Marine Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: You think it should be legal to drive drunk at 120mph..so long as you don't hit anything?
Should it be legal to walk around DC with a loaded firearm, as long as you don't shoot anything?


I hope you understand I'm not advocating driving drunk at 120mph. I just don't think someone's life should be ruined who hasn't even hurt anyone.
What should the cutoff be for speed and/or intoxication? .08 and whatever the speed limit signs happen to be on that particular road? Both have more to do with politics and revenue collection than safety.
There's a very important distinction between those two examples, and I'm not advocating that someone's life be ruined over a DUI (and I agree that DUI enforcement has wandered into the absurd as of late).
You're taking it to an extreme. If not .08 and whatever the speed limit sign on a particular road says, then what is the cutoff for someone who doesn't hurt anyone? .09 and 75mph? .1 and 85mph?

I have a problem with criminalizing the alcoholic content of someone's blood instead of the actions the hurt someone. DUI laws that potentially ruin the life of someone safely driving after two beers don't keep anyone safe.
I agree with just about everything you said here, but I don't think this needs to be the all or nothing, take it or leave it proposition you've laid out.

I'm not saying there's a happy medium, but rather, a different way to approach it altogether.
I agree. What's your way?
I haven't completely thought this out yet, but I think you'd agree the problem stems from laws which become more and more arbitrary as a result of government becoming larger and more centralized.

A potential solution:

1. Decentralize government. I recently read that in Switzerland, 80pct of law/government is conducted at the *community* level. That's astounding. I'm not saying I'd want Swiss laws here, but I think the way they've chosen their laws allows them to find a solution which works best for the people in those communities.

2. The second part is harder, but we need to re-think the law system in this country. I really think it peaked in efficiency and was the right scope sometime between the end of the Civil War and the end of the 19th century (of course, it could be argued that Lincoln had already set us on a course for where we are today at that point).

We somehow managed to live back then with laws that didn't micromanage every piece of our lives. Since then, we've stopped being a nation of laws and turned into a nation of lawyers. Unfortunately, I don't see a change like that happening unless someone hits the reset button, so to speak...
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Re: Is this a great country or what?

Post by Marine Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote: I haven't completely thought this out yet, but I think you'd agree the problem stems from laws which become more and more arbitrary as a result of government becoming larger and more centralized.


I agree that is a problem.

USN_Hokie wrote:
1. Decentralize government. I recently read that in Switzerland, 80pct of law/government is conducted at the *community* level. That's astounding. I'm not saying I'd want Swiss laws here, but I think the way they've chosen their laws allows them to find a solution which works best for the people in those communities.
Organizing different communities with their own distinct culture under one central government that passes laws based on incompatible values is certainly a problem. Interestingly, for early Americans things were reversed. Your home was the primary authority. After that, the city/town was what you dealt with the most. Then the county, followed by the state. The US government was mostly out of your everyday life and had little power to change that. Now things are the other way around.


USN_Hokie wrote:2. The second part is harder, but we need to re-think the law system in this country. I really think it peaked in efficiency and was the right scope sometime between the end of the Civil War and the end of the 19th century (of course, it could be argued that Lincoln had already set us on a course for where we are today at that point).
I'm interested in how you picked that period.

USN_Hokie wrote: We somehow managed to live back then with laws that didn't micromanage every piece of our lives. Since then, we've stopped being a nation of laws and turned into a nation of lawyers. Unfortunately, I don't see a change like that happening unless someone hits the reset button, so to speak...
Unfortunately a reset will probably just bring things back to the way they are now eventually. There aren't many examples of people being able to maintain liberty and sovereignty with governments around.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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