How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out of

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oaktonhokie
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How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out of

Post by oaktonhokie »

poverty?

Seriously.

If you gave him $100,000, no taxes, cash in a bag. Would he:

Get job training.
Pay to get his kids out of government schools.
Get an education.
Open a business.

Or,

Buy a new Mercedes.
Buy a few new flat screen tvs.
Take his posse to a strip club and buy champagne and make it rain on the girls.

Buy stuff for today or invest in his and his kids' futures...?

If you gave him $200,000....$500,000?

What's the number?

Income of $100,000 is the pre tax equivalent of about $2000 per week. That's $50 per hours.

So, if we raise the minimum wage, or living wage to $50 per hour....poverty ends?
If you bend over backwards long enough,
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VoiceOfReason
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by VoiceOfReason »

oaktonhokie wrote:poverty?

Seriously.

If you gave him $100,000, no taxes, cash in a bag. Would he:

Get job training.
Pay to get his kids out of government schools.
Get an education.
Open a business.

Or,

Buy a new Mercedes.
Buy a few new flat screen tvs.
Take his posse to a strip club and buy champagne and make it rain on the girls.

Buy stuff for today or invest in his and his kids' futures...?

If you gave him $200,000....$500,000?

What's the number?

Income of $100,000 is the pre tax equivalent of about $2000 per week. That's $50 per hours.

So, if we raise the minimum wage, or living wage to $50 per hour....poverty ends?
Well... if you can assume guaranteed employment for all. What about the disabled and the elderly?

But seriously... is this an attempt to demagogue the poor? The spending problems in this country have almost nothing to do with aid to the poor - assuming you do not count Social Security as one of those aids. The Big 3 are: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and Military Spending. Talking about anything else is not financially significant.
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awesome guy
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by awesome guy »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
oaktonhokie wrote:poverty?

Seriously.

If you gave him $100,000, no taxes, cash in a bag. Would he:

Get job training.
Pay to get his kids out of government schools.
Get an education.
Open a business.

Or,

Buy a new Mercedes.
Buy a few new flat screen tvs.
Take his posse to a strip club and buy champagne and make it rain on the girls.

Buy stuff for today or invest in his and his kids' futures...?

If you gave him $200,000....$500,000?

What's the number?

Income of $100,000 is the pre tax equivalent of about $2000 per week. That's $50 per hours.

So, if we raise the minimum wage, or living wage to $50 per hour....poverty ends?
Well... if you can assume guaranteed employment for all. What about the disabled and the elderly?

But seriously... is this an attempt to demagogue the poor? The spending problems in this country have almost nothing to do with aid to the poor - assuming you do not count Social Security as one of those aids. The Big 3 are: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and Military Spending. Talking about anything else is not financially significant.
Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
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oaktonhokie
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by oaktonhokie »

You respond without answering.

How much should the min wage or living wage be?

Can you end poverty with cash to the poor?

VoiceOfReason wrote:
oaktonhokie wrote:poverty?

Seriously.

If you gave him $100,000, no taxes, cash in a bag. Would he:

Get job training.
Pay to get his kids out of government schools.
Get an education.
Open a business.

Or,

Buy a new Mercedes.
Buy a few new flat screen tvs.
Take his posse to a strip club and buy champagne and make it rain on the girls.

Buy stuff for today or invest in his and his kids' futures...?

If you gave him $200,000....$500,000?

What's the number?

Income of $100,000 is the pre tax equivalent of about $2000 per week. That's $50 per hours.

So, if we raise the minimum wage, or living wage to $50 per hour....poverty ends?
Well... if you can assume guaranteed employment for all. What about the disabled and the elderly?

But seriously... is this an attempt to demagogue the poor? The spending problems in this country have almost nothing to do with aid to the poor - assuming you do not count Social Security as one of those aids. The Big 3 are: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and Military Spending. Talking about anything else is not financially significant.
If you bend over backwards long enough,
eventually you'll fall down.
VoiceOfReason
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by VoiceOfReason »

awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
Three things:

1) OK, I did miss the point. You were demogoguing the poor for the min wage increase not for welfare/budget discussion. Sorry, my mistake. Deficit/budget is my pet issue... but this is your thread and your question. My apologies for diverting.

2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

3) Whoa... all of the poor are poor because they make bad decisions? Dude... seriously... maybe you should spend some time at homeless shelter. Or talk to a single mother raising kids. (I suppose you could be high and might about the mother's decisions... but c'mon... it's not always what you think and even if it is... just wow!) What about the mentally challenged? What bad decisions did they make? Or do you count all their decision as bad since they are mentally challenged.

I usually do not fall into the Lib trap that all conservatives are heartless... but considering your posts here... for you I may make an exception :mrgreen:
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by awesome guy »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
Three things:

1) OK, I did miss the point. You were demogoguing the poor for the min wage increase not for welfare/budget discussion. Sorry, my mistake. Deficit/budget is my pet issue... but this is your thread and your question. My apologies for diverting.

2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

3) Whoa... all of the poor are poor because they make bad decisions? Dude... seriously... maybe you should spend some time at homeless shelter. Or talk to a single mother raising kids. (I suppose you could be high and might about the mother's decisions... but c'mon... it's not always what you think and even if it is... just wow!) What about the mentally challenged? What bad decisions did they make? Or do you count all their decision as bad since they are mentally challenged.

I usually do not fall into the Lib trap that all conservatives are heartless... but considering your posts here... for you I may make an exception :mrgreen:
So no response, just more mindless rhetoric. Got it.
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VoiceOfReason
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by VoiceOfReason »

awesome guy wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
Three things:

1) OK, I did miss the point. You were demogoguing the poor for the min wage increase not for welfare/budget discussion. Sorry, my mistake. Deficit/budget is my pet issue... but this is your thread and your question. My apologies for diverting.

2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

3) Whoa... all of the poor are poor because they make bad decisions? Dude... seriously... maybe you should spend some time at homeless shelter. Or talk to a single mother raising kids. (I suppose you could be high and might about the mother's decisions... but c'mon... it's not always what you think and even if it is... just wow!) What about the mentally challenged? What bad decisions did they make? Or do you count all their decision as bad since they are mentally challenged.

I usually do not fall into the Lib trap that all conservatives are heartless... but considering your posts here... for you I may make an exception :mrgreen:
So no response, just more mindless rhetoric. Got it.
Let's see... #1 was an apology (I understand why one who never practices it would not understand it's value)... #2 and #3 are not rhetoric, they are my opinions... stated as such.

Mindless? What mental acuity have you shown that makes you qualified to make such a judgement? Between the two of us... your posts are far more rote GOP BS than the percentage of mine spouting donkey points. Not even close dude!
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by awesome guy »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
Three things:

1) OK, I did miss the point. You were demogoguing the poor for the min wage increase not for welfare/budget discussion. Sorry, my mistake. Deficit/budget is my pet issue... but this is your thread and your question. My apologies for diverting.

2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

3) Whoa... all of the poor are poor because they make bad decisions? Dude... seriously... maybe you should spend some time at homeless shelter. Or talk to a single mother raising kids. (I suppose you could be high and might about the mother's decisions... but c'mon... it's not always what you think and even if it is... just wow!) What about the mentally challenged? What bad decisions did they make? Or do you count all their decision as bad since they are mentally challenged.

I usually do not fall into the Lib trap that all conservatives are heartless... but considering your posts here... for you I may make an exception :mrgreen:
So no response, just more mindless rhetoric. Got it.
Let's see... #1 was an apology (I understand why one who never practices it would not understand it's value)... #2 and #3 are not rhetoric, they are my opinions... stated as such.

Mindless? What mental acuity have you shown that makes you qualified to make such a judgement? Between the two of us... your posts are far more rote GOP BS than the percentage of mine spouting donkey points. Not even close dude!
You're 100% dnc talking points. And your deep thoughts were "you're mean". So yeah, more of the same mindless rhetoric you've brought from day one. Do you have any real thoughts on the poor making bad decisions? "You're mean" isn't one if you go back to that.
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VoiceOfReason
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by VoiceOfReason »

awesome guy wrote: You're 100% dnc talking points. And your deep thoughts were "you're mean". So yeah, more of the same mindless rhetoric you've brought from day one. Do you have any real thoughts on the poor making bad decisions? "You're mean" isn't one if you go back to that.
WADR... bite me. :mrgreen:

Returning to civility...

No, I do not have thoughts on the poor making bad decisions. I don't lump all the poor together. I recognize that some people are abusing the system... but I don't lump everyone together. Just as I don't lump all conservatives together. Most of the people on this board I encounter can have a civil disagreement with me without calling me mindless or saying my opinions are 100% DNC as if I do not have reasoned opinions. You, sir, have shown yourself to not be a member of that civil group.
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by awesome guy »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: You're 100% dnc talking points. And your deep thoughts were "you're mean". So yeah, more of the same mindless rhetoric you've brought from day one. Do you have any real thoughts on the poor making bad decisions? "You're mean" isn't one if you go back to that.
WADR... bite me. :mrgreen:

Returning to civility...

No, I do not have thoughts on the poor making bad decisions. I don't lump all the poor together. I recognize that some people are abusing the system... but I don't lump everyone together. Just as I don't lump all conservatives together. Most of the people on this board I encounter can have a civil disagreement with me without calling me mindless or saying my opinions are 100% DNC as if I do not have reasoned opinions. You, sir, have shown yourself to not be a member of that civil group.
And what have you called me? Think that may have something to do with what's being reciprocated to you?
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by USN_Hokie »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.


2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

So you're saying that you don't believe in/agree with minimum wage laws? Bravo...
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by 133743Hokie »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
Three things:

1) OK, I did miss the point. You were demogoguing the poor for the min wage increase not for welfare/budget discussion. Sorry, my mistake. Deficit/budget is my pet issue... but this is your thread and your question. My apologies for diverting.

2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

3) Whoa... all of the poor are poor because they make bad decisions? Dude... seriously... maybe you should spend some time at homeless shelter. Or talk to a single mother raising kids. (I suppose you could be high and might about the mother's decisions... but c'mon... it's not always what you think and even if it is... just wow!) What about the mentally challenged? What bad decisions did they make? Or do you count all their decision as bad since they are mentally challenged.

I usually do not fall into the Lib trap that all conservatives are heartless... but considering your posts here... for you I may make an exception :mrgreen:
Regarding #3, obviously there are those that need permanent help (mentally challenged, disabled, etc) but they are a small portion of those being served. Second, many of the homeless are in that situation temporarily and I have no problem with the USG providing unemployment benefits (100 weeks seems a bit much IMO when needed), but many aren't and homelessness should entitle you to lifetime benefits.

Last, discounting all of the above, there is a huge portion or the population on USG benefits that are there primarily as a result of their own decisions, and I have only marginal sympathy for those that perpetuate this state. So how do we deal with this large group?
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by Marine Hokie »

Not wanting government programs that claim to help the poor isn't the same as not wanting to help the poor.
Since the "war on poverty" started, the measured poverty rate hasn't significantly changed. The main thing that's changed is that there are fewer private institutions providing charity.
I know it feels good to support big government anti-poverty programs, because people can feel like they're helping the poor without actually doing anything, but the data doesn't support that the poor are actually being helped, certainly not $1.5 trillion worth.
VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: You're 100% dnc talking points. And your deep thoughts were "you're mean". So yeah, more of the same mindless rhetoric you've brought from day one. Do you have any real thoughts on the poor making bad decisions? "You're mean" isn't one if you go back to that.
WADR... bite me. :mrgreen:

Returning to civility...

No, I do not have thoughts on the poor making bad decisions. I don't lump all the poor together. I recognize that some people are abusing the system... but I don't lump everyone together. Just as I don't lump all conservatives together. Most of the people on this board I encounter can have a civil disagreement with me without calling me mindless or saying my opinions are 100% DNC as if I do not have reasoned opinions. You, sir, have shown yourself to not be a member of that civil group.
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by cwtcr hokie »

funny thing as a giver in this country I pay taxes every day into social security and medicare. how much tax is enough, if you want to cut out social security and medicare for those of us that saved for our futures now instead of spending every dime we made, that is fair?

how?
VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote: Once again, you miss the point and divert. The exercise shows the cause of poverty, poor decisions. So they're going to be poor in all scenarios except unlimited money.
Three things:

1) OK, I did miss the point. You were demogoguing the poor for the min wage increase not for welfare/budget discussion. Sorry, my mistake. Deficit/budget is my pet issue... but this is your thread and your question. My apologies for diverting.

2) Never given it much thought. It's a fine line... you would hope a hard working person making min wage could pay his bills assuming he was frugal reflecting his income. You also want college kids to get low pay seasonal jobs... and their bills are less. This is a free market vs. poverty compromise. I don't have a number if that is what you are asking.

3) Whoa... all of the poor are poor because they make bad decisions? Dude... seriously... maybe you should spend some time at homeless shelter. Or talk to a single mother raising kids. (I suppose you could be high and might about the mother's decisions... but c'mon... it's not always what you think and even if it is... just wow!) What about the mentally challenged? What bad decisions did they make? Or do you count all their decision as bad since they are mentally challenged.

I usually do not fall into the Lib trap that all conservatives are heartless... but considering your posts here... for you I may make an exception :mrgreen:
VoiceOfReason
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Re: How much money must we give a poor man to lift him out o

Post by VoiceOfReason »

cwtcr hokie wrote:funny thing as a giver in this country I pay taxes every day into social security and medicare. how much tax is enough, if you want to cut out social security and medicare for those of us that saved for our futures now instead of spending every dime we made, that is fair?

how?
I see your point. But I am not talking about fairness, I am talking about math. For those who long for fiscal sanity, griping about programs for the poor is not statistically significant. That's like Mitt saying he will balance the budget by firing Big Bird. (NPR is not statistically significant).

To solve the problem, we must do a combination of 4 things:
1) reduce SS
2) reduce Medicare/caid
3) reduce military
4) increase taxes

If you don't like #4, then go heavier on #1 - #3. The poor have very little to do with it other than getting you guys angry.
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