Rebuking ISIS

[Major Kong]

I know what he's talking about. It's the same ignorant lie Carson brought up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... our-goals/

Pfffft I think the WaPo is full of pig excrement...the term has morphed into a 21st Century definition now meaning "whatever it takes" regardless of one being Sunni or Shia.

[cwtcr hokie]

I get the impression that some in the UWS community don't believe there's much of a difference between mainstream Islam and ISIS.

If true,

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... ttack.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... e=facebook

If not, carry on

this is the problem, this small part of the world population wants to eliminate TOTALLY everyone else on the planet..... so since a small minority wants to eliminate the rest of the planet, I believe the rest of the planet can eliminate them. And it will try. The funny thing is the Muslim community can stop it but chooses not to.
So I feel no sorrow for what happens to them.

[Uprising]

I know what he's talking about. It's the same ignorant lie Carson brought up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... our-goals/

Pfffft I think the WaPo is full of pig excrement...the term has morphed into a 21st Century definition now meaning "whatever it takes" regardless of one being Sunni or Shia.

That is just wrong.
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160957

[Major Kong]

That is just wrong.
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160957

Uprising my opinion is purely anecdotal but from several people and conversations I had with co-workers in Indonesia.

I was told that, even from a Sunni point of view, that lying and deception are perfectly alright in the case of one being in danger or having their way of life put in jeopardy.

I have no problem whatsoever that either Sunni or Shia extremist have co-opted that into a philosophy of gaining the objective at all cost.

[Uprising]

Uprising my opinion is purely anecdotal but from several people and conversations I had with co-workers in Indonesia.

I was told that, even from a Sunni point of view, that lying and deception are perfectly alright in the case of one being in danger or having their way of life put in jeopardy.

I pretty much agree with that.

I have no problem whatsoever that either Sunni or Shia extremist have co-opted that into a philosophy of gaining the objective at all cost.

Extremists will use whatever means necessary in obtaining their objective. That is not something unique to Muslim extremists. Those that try to say things about taqiyya like this:

Essentially, they are instructed to deceive non-mohammedians.

Are doing nothing but spreading xenophobic BS. And the irony is not lost on me that it is mostly Christians, worried about Muslims lying, using and perpetuating lies to demonize Muslims to obtain their objective.

[awesome guy]

Uprising my opinion is purely anecdotal but from several people and conversations I had with co-workers in Indonesia.

I was told that, even from a Sunni point of view, that lying and deception are perfectly alright in the case of one being in danger or having their way of life put in jeopardy.

I pretty much agree with that.

I have no problem whatsoever that either Sunni or Shia extremist have co-opted that into a philosophy of gaining the objective at all cost.

Extremists will use whatever means necessary in obtaining their objective. That is not something unique to Muslim extremists. Those that try to say things about taqiyya like this:

Essentially, they are instructed to deceive non-mohammedians.

Are doing nothing but spreading xenophobic BS. And the irony is not lost on me that it is mostly Christians, worried about Muslims lying, using and perpetuating lies to demonize Muslims to obtain their objective.

Again, the liar is you. The enabling passages and interpretations have already been posted. Your enemy is the truth and the truth is your enemy.

[Major Kong]

Are doing nothing but spreading xenophobic BS. And the irony is not lost on me that it is mostly Christians, worried about Muslims lying, using and perpetuating lies to demonize Muslims to obtain their objective.

Xenophobic BS When there is more than ample evidence that this is being done as I type this

I'm sorry but my Naivete meter doesn't go nowhere near that far to the left.

Hell Catholic Charities has lost track of a New Orleans refugee...I'm sure this isn't the 1st nor the last.

*Note the refugee has been found out of State by the LA State Police.

[Uprising]

Are doing nothing but spreading xenophobic BS. And the irony is not lost on me that it is mostly Christians, worried about Muslims lying, using and perpetuating lies to demonize Muslims to obtain their objective.

Xenophobic BS When there is more than ample evidence that this is being done as I type this

I'm sorry but my Naivete meter doesn't go nowhere near that far to the left.

Hell Catholic Charities has lost track of a New Orleans refugee...I'm sure this isn't the 1st nor the last.

*Note the refugee has been found out of State by the LA State Police.

Where is this evidence?
And Catholic charities didn't lose track of the refugee because they don't track refugees.

[RiverguyVT]

I get the impression that some in the UWS community don't believe there's much of a difference between mainstream Islam and ISIS.

If true,

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... ttack.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... e=facebook

If not, carry on

There are muslims who said the same thing after 9/11 (some were even invited to dinner at the Pentagon) who were subsequently put on terrorist watch lists and then incinerated by laser-guided bombs. I'm not saying all muslims are terrorists/terrorist sympathizers, just that the information you provided is worthless. The attendant at the gas station doesn't tell me he supports ISIS - Saudi Arabian clerics are no different (just a bigger gas pump).

Good businessmen don't offend their customers. Saudi Arabia doesn't like ISIS because the instability they create is bad for business.

So the ones I quoted who protest ISIS you don't believe. Do you believe the ones who profess support?

No. It is foolish for a non-mohammedian to believe them. It is very well documented that, in their faith, a lie is not a lie if told to a non-mohammedian. That is not a jihadist position only; it is not a radicalist poition only. It is their belief and supported by koranian dictates. Essentially, they are instructed to deceive non-mohammedians.

Eff 'em.

This is a lie told by ignorant, Muslim hating Christians, like you and Ben Carson.

What's funny is that you being a supposed evangelist for the non-theists, you sure get touchy when it comes to the muslims. Why is that? As for ignorant, I've only seldom encountered someone here as ignorant of matters eschatological as yourself. And how dare you claim I hate someone? You don't know me, jerkwad. Please.

Do you hate it when imams kill dogs?

idiot.

[RiverguyVT]

This is a lie told by ignorant, Muslim hating Christians, like you and Ben Carson.

I believe Riverguy is referring to Taqiya which has morphed from it's original Shia meaning to a more contemporary meaning.

I know what he's talking about. It's the same ignorant lie Carson brought up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... our-goals/

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, though they should not feel that way..

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.

From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.
------------------------------------
It would appear that the "ignorant" Ben Carson knows a bit more than you do.
Lookie there. I supported something without killing any dustmites.

[miles]

I get the impression that some in the UWS community don't believe there's much of a difference between mainstream Islam and ISIS.

If true,

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/mi ... ttack.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... e=facebook

If not, carry on

There are muslims who said the same thing after 9/11 (some were even invited to dinner at the Pentagon) who were subsequently put on terrorist watch lists and then incinerated by laser-guided bombs. I'm not saying all muslims are terrorists/terrorist sympathizers, just that the information you provided is worthless. The attendant at the gas station doesn't tell me he supports ISIS - Saudi Arabian clerics are no different (just a bigger gas pump).

Good businessmen don't offend their customers. Saudi Arabia doesn't like ISIS because the instability they create is bad for business.

So the ones I quoted who protest ISIS you don't believe. Do you believe the ones who profess support?

No. It is foolish for a non-mohammedian to believe them. It is very well documented that, in their faith, a lie is not a lie if told to a non-mohammedian. That is not a jihadist position only; it is not a radicalist poition only. It is their belief and supported by koranian dictates. Essentially, they are instructed to deceive non-mohammedians.

Eff 'em.

This is a lie told by ignorant, Muslim hating Christians, like you and Ben Carson.

What's funny is that you being a supposed evangelist for the non-theists, you sure get touchy when it comes to the muslims. Why is that? As for ignorant, I've only seldom encountered someone here as ignorant of matters eschatological as yourself. And how dare you claim I hate someone? You don't know me, jerkwad. Please.

Do you hate it when imams kill dogs?

idiot.

The enemy of his enemy is his friend.

[Major Kong]

Where is this evidence?
And Catholic charities didn't lose track of the refugee because they don't track refugees.

Like I said my Naivete meter in no way can go that far off...my common sense scale precludes that.

As far as the farce of Catholic Charities they relocated the refugees and then wash their hands of them...how quaint.

[RiverguyVT]

Just dropping in here for one post, if I may.

Why do you call muslims mohammedians? Is that a slur, or do they use the term? Does it mean something besides muslims? I look forward to your reply, if so inclined, and thank you in advance.

tuh-may-toe
ta-mah-toe

It is an expression that's been used hundreds of years; longer than I've been around.

loosely, a follower of mohammed. Are you saying in addition to me not drawing him, I shouldn't say his name either?
Voldemort.

[awesome guy]

The enemy of his enemy is his friend.

I'm honestly surprised Uprising didn't turn to "there is no such thing as a lie". Which in his universe is all that's true since he really doesn't exist as a living entity in control of his own thoughts and actions. Instead he's a continuation of a billion year process of electrons and protons colliding, randomly ending up in his brain and sending an electrical pulse through his brain which causes random words to be typed. Those electrons just keep on flowing to interact with the next set of atoms. He's not alive so there are no lies as their is no control, it's all just physics.

[RiverguyVT]

The enemy of his enemy is his friend.

LOL... pretty much.

[Uprising]

This is a lie told by ignorant, Muslim hating Christians, like you and Ben Carson.

I believe Riverguy is referring to Taqiya which has morphed from it's original Shia meaning to a more contemporary meaning.

I know what he's talking about. It's the same ignorant lie Carson brought up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... our-goals/

The Qur'an:

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, though they should not feel that way..

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).



Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.



Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."



Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."



Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered despite putting up a ferocious struggle for his life.

From Islamic Law:



Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...



"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.
------------------------------------
It would appear that the "ignorant" Ben Carson knows a bit more than you do.
Lookie there. I supported something without killing any dustmites.

Look everybody, Riverguy can copy and paste from a website who's header reads:

the politically incorrect truth about islam one really messed up religion

And then act like he hit upon some scholarly insight. You're a joke.

[RiverguyVT]

Look everybody, Riverguy can copy and paste from a website who's header reads:

the politically incorrect truth about islam one really messed up religion

And then act like he hit upon some scholarly insight. You're a joke.

Scholarly insight? I'm acting like what??? Supposition is a slippery slope, evangelist fella.
The link I cited uses koran quotes which are directly linked to 3 different koran translations.
Here:http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm
Look 'em up. They're right there. Scroll down. All the koran you want, and then some

Let's be sure to check out the headers on your nonsensical anti-theism sites, shall we?

So tell me. Why are you soooo protective of the muslim false prophets?