Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernardino

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HokieJoe
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by HokieJoe »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
Hmm, sounds similar to the response I got about Obama and your 401k.
I thought the same thing. So we agree. You are consistent in mouthing off about the left without actually reading what somebody else writes on any number of topics. Congrats! :mrgreen:

No, you gave a flippant answer to my question in that thread. I admit that I unfairly jumped your post in this thread. Call it a hangover from your prior post. ;)
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by awesome guy »

ElbertoHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:Oh please. The left wing is not attacking prayers. They are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless.

Hey, I have an idea... How about we tell the left to STFU? Then we tell the right to STFU? Then we tell the NRA to STFU? Then we get law enforcement together and see what ideas they have?

Horseshiite. You don't want to have a conversation. You just want to flap your gums about how open minded and inclusive you are. Here's the sticky bit though: You're okay with limiting gun owners rights, but the very mention of profiling would make you pee your reactionary, lwnj spankys. In your mind, the only solution is limiting gun ownership. That's why you get a many people here, in so many words, dismissing you as FOS.
HokieJoe... with all due respect... go blow yourself. You don't know the first thing about me. Nor did you care to read what I wrote. I don't care one whit about being open minded or inclusive, nor do I care what people think about me on those terms. And yes... as hard as it may be for you to believe... I do want an honest conversation. Because, on the subject of guns and mass shootings... I believe the following things to be true:

1) The left is not addressing the problem with their talk of gun show loopholes and assault weapon bans. None of this would solve the problem.
2) The right is not addressing the problem with their talk of eliminating gun free zones, arming the general population and open carry all over the place. None of that would solve the problem and very likely would make things worse.
3) The NRA is a powerful lobbying group... that puts the interests of gun/ammo makers over the lives of American citizens.

If you read my posts... you would see I don't have the answer. But I believe there is an answer... if all the usual suspects quit sending out their memes intended to ridicule half the population.

If my motive are at all at fault... perhaps it's my naivete in thinking a message board was the place to look for a conversation. I forgot dopes like you talk before they read :mrgreen:
He has you pegged, you're not for an open debate, just to troll and show your considerable ass.
I'm not saying anyones an ass. But I wouldn't say you're up for open debate. Being up for open debate means that you're willing to compromise. You're willing to compromise on gun ownership and the current laws? Everything I've seen you say speaks to the contrary. You seem to see this as a black and white issue(even though it's very nuanced) and whoever doesn't share your exact opinion on the idea is an idiot. Am i right?
Open debate doesn't mean compromising, it means presenting facts and arguments as opposed to obfuscating behind unfounded claims of nuance, uncertainty, or shades of grey. Idiots do stuff like that. Calling people idiots has nothing to do with not sharing an exact opinion, it's done to people who don't present intelligent arguments, yet delude themselves into thinking they are.
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by awesome guy »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:Oh please. The left wing is not attacking prayers. They are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless.

Hey, I have an idea... How about we tell the left to STFU? Then we tell the right to STFU? Then we tell the NRA to STFU? Then we get law enforcement together and see what ideas they have?

Horseshiite. You don't want to have a conversation. You just want to flap your gums about how open minded and inclusive you are. Here's the sticky bit though: You're okay with limiting gun owners rights, but the very mention of profiling would make you pee your reactionary, lwnj spankys. In your mind, the only solution is limiting gun ownership. That's why you get a many people here, in so many words, dismissing you as FOS.
HokieJoe... with all due respect... go blow yourself. You don't know the first thing about me. Nor did you care to read what I wrote. I don't care one whit about being open minded or inclusive, nor do I care what people think about me on those terms. And yes... as hard as it may be for you to believe... I do want an honest conversation. Because, on the subject of guns and mass shootings... I believe the following things to be true:

1) The left is not addressing the problem with their talk of gun show loopholes and assault weapon bans. None of this would solve the problem.
2) The right is not addressing the problem with their talk of eliminating gun free zones, arming the general population and open carry all over the place. None of that would solve the problem and very likely would make things worse.
3) The NRA is a powerful lobbying group... that puts the interests of gun/ammo makers over the lives of American citizens.

If you read my posts... you would see I don't have the answer. But I believe there is an answer... if all the usual suspects quit sending out their memes intended to ridicule half the population.

If my motive are at all at fault... perhaps it's my naivete in thinking a message board was the place to look for a conversation. I forgot dopes like you talk before they read :mrgreen:
He has you pegged, you're not for an open debate, just to troll and show your considerable ass.
I'm not saying anyones an ass. But I wouldn't say you're up for open debate. Being up for open debate means that you're willing to compromise. You're willing to compromise on gun ownership and the current laws? Everything I've seen you say speaks to the contrary. You seem to see this as a black and white issue(even though it's very nuanced) and whoever doesn't share your exact opinion on the idea is an idiot. Am i right?
There is no debate on gun ownership, it is a part of our laws since the founding of the country. What exactly is wrong with the multitude of current gun laws?
Exactly. There's no ambiguity here.
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ElbertoHokie
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by ElbertoHokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:There is no debate on gun ownership, it is a part of our laws since the founding of the country. What exactly is wrong with the multitude of current gun laws?
How is requiring mandatory fire arms training before a person can own a gun limiting your gun rights? How is requiring federal background checks for all gun purchases(including private party) limiting your rights? We limit felons rights to vote and own a gun. Inherent rights to the constitution, if you want to go all the way, then they should be able to get them too.

I'm talking things like mandatory gun training. If you live in a home with a minor, mandatory gun safe, etc. I don't think you should be aloud to buy assault rifles, but you see, I'm not saying take them away. Those things I listed above could do a whole lot of good on their own. While its not all the good I think we could do, some good is better than none. Now what is your disagreement over the things I just suggested?
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by cwtcr hokie »

ElbertoHokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:There is no debate on gun ownership, it is a part of our laws since the founding of the country. What exactly is wrong with the multitude of current gun laws?
How is requiring mandatory fire arms training before a person can own a gun limiting your gun rights? How is requiring federal background checks for all gun purchases(including private party) limiting your rights? We limit felons rights to vote and own a gun. Inherent rights to the constitution, if you want to go all the way, then they should be able to get them too.

I'm talking things like mandatory gun training. If you live in a home with a minor, mandatory gun safe, etc. I don't think you should be aloud to buy assault rifles, but you see, I'm not saying take them away. Those things I listed above could do a whole lot of good on their own. While its not all the good I think we could do, some good is better than none. Now what is your disagreement over the things I just suggested?
Firearm training was done by my dad a long time ago. Background checks are already part of the current gun laws, but not sure how you would police private gun sales since nobody knows they are occurring, commercial gun sellers have the ways to do the background checks, fred from his house probably does not but how would anyone know of the sale? Felons for obvious reasons have restrictions placed on them as they have already demonstrated an inability to follow our laws as written. As for mandatory gun safe? I have one but have no kids, guess I am super special. But there are a lot more ways to secure a gun from minors then a gun safe. Funny thing is my dad never had his guns in a safe, in a cabinet in our house that had a glass front and for some reason none of the six kids ever pulled them out and went to school to mow down our classmates.

Again, what gun laws (there are a whole lot on the books currently) would stop the random terrorist attack (San Bernandino) or the random nutjob attack (the others in the past few years)?

FYI, it is not possible to buy an automatic assault rifle now, what is your definition of an assault rifle?

I am not an expert on automatic weapons but I do know you can change them for some of the models (that is illegal btw). Keep in mind that the Kali terrorist used bombs yesterday and had a bomb lab in his middle class stucco house, all the ingredients for that operation were normal household items until you put them together and make a bomb with it (and google it, you will be a bomb expert in a few minutes) so what laws are you putting in to stop that, you have to register to buy pipe?
Last edited by cwtcr hokie on Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
VisorBoy
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VisorBoy »

Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VoiceOfReason »

HokieJoe wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
Hmm, sounds similar to the response I got about Obama and your 401k.
I thought the same thing. So we agree. You are consistent in mouthing off about the left without actually reading what somebody else writes on any number of topics. Congrats! :mrgreen:

No, you gave a flippant answer to my question in that thread. I admit that I unfairly jumped your post in this thread. Call it a hangover from your prior post. ;)
HokieJoe. Thank you for recognizing and admitting your behavior. Considering that, I apologize for the vulgar response I directed your way in this thread.

As far as your post on the other thread goes, I was merely rejecting a stupid meme posted by the board troll. And doing so in appropriately dismissive fashion given his limited ability to comprehend reality and logic. I believe you asked a question that tried to elevate a poo throwing conversation that really should not have been elevated. No disrespect intended towards you. :mrgreen:
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by BigDave »

VoiceOfReason wrote:I'm not coming here with a leftist solution to the problem. What I advocate is an ideology-free and NRA-free analysis of the problem, honest discussion on what problems can be solved and what cannot... followed by bold action. Just as an aside... does anybody here really believe statistics on gun violence that are produced by the NRA are in any way meaningful and accurate?
"Ideology-free", but you a priori reject a claim because you don't like the one doing the claiming?
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by cwtcr hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
care to expound on how?
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by RiverguyVT »

VoiceOfReason wrote: The NRA exists for one purpose - to protect the interests of gun and ammunition manufacturers.
And you say you want serious discussion?
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VisorBoy »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
care to expound on how?
Any effort to limit the proliferation of guns, especially those capable of maximizing damage in a short time, addresses all three. Not completely, and not at the same rate, mind you, but that isn't a complete argument to abandon said efforts.
Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly.
ElbertoHokie
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by ElbertoHokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:There is no debate on gun ownership, it is a part of our laws since the founding of the country. What exactly is wrong with the multitude of current gun laws?
How is requiring mandatory fire arms training before a person can own a gun limiting your gun rights? How is requiring federal background checks for all gun purchases(including private party) limiting your rights? We limit felons rights to vote and own a gun. Inherent rights to the constitution, if you want to go all the way, then they should be able to get them too.

I'm talking things like mandatory gun training. If you live in a home with a minor, mandatory gun safe, etc. I don't think you should be aloud to buy assault rifles, but you see, I'm not saying take them away. Those things I listed above could do a whole lot of good on their own. While its not all the good I think we could do, some good is better than none. Now what is your disagreement over the things I just suggested?
Firearm training was done by my dad a long time ago. Background checks are already part of the current gun laws, but not sure how you would police private gun sales since nobody knows they are occurring, commercial gun sellers have the ways to do the background checks, fred from his house probably does not but how would anyone know of the sale? Felons for obvious reasons have restrictions placed on them as they have already demonstrated an inability to follow our laws as written. As for mandatory gun safe? I have one but have no kids, guess I am super special. But there are a lot more ways to secure a gun from minors then a gun safe. Funny thing is my dad never had his guns in a safe, in a cabinet in our house that had a glass front and for some reason none of the six kids ever pulled them out and went to school to mow down our classmates.

Again, what gun laws (there are a whole lot on the books currently) would stop the random terrorist attack (San Bernandino) or the random nutjob attack (the others in the past few years)?

FYI, it is not possible to buy an automatic assault rifle now, what is your definition of an assault rifle?

I am not an expert on automatic weapons but I do know you can change them for some of the models (that is illegal btw). Keep in mind that the Kali terrorist used bombs yesterday and had a bomb lab in his middle class stucco house, all the ingredients for that operation were normal household items until you put them together and make a bomb with it (and google it, you will be a bomb expert in a few minutes) so what laws are you putting in to stop that, you have to register to buy pipe?
Okay lets start over.

Do you think there is something wrong with the number of gun deaths(homicide or suicide or accidental) in the USA?

If yes, what would you do to reduce them?

If no, is that because you don't care about the number of deaths? Why is that?
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VoiceOfReason »

RiverguyVT wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote: The NRA exists for one purpose - to protect the interests of gun and ammunition manufacturers.
And you say you want serious discussion?
Umm yea. You seriously question that?

I suppose you think the oil and gas lobby's objections to the climate change science are merely coincidental to their business interests as well?

Amazingly convenient! :mrgreen:
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by RiverguyVT »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote: The NRA exists for one purpose - to protect the interests of gun and ammunition manufacturers.
And you say you want serious discussion?
Umm yea. You seriously question that?

I suppose you think the oil and gas lobby's objections to the climate change science are merely coincidental to their business interests as well?

Amazingly convenient! :mrgreen:
Your position on the NRA is unsupportable, not serious, and overtly partisan-tainted.
Your launch point for discussion is a nonstarter.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VoiceOfReason »

RiverguyVT wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote: The NRA exists for one purpose - to protect the interests of gun and ammunition manufacturers.
And you say you want serious discussion?
Umm yea. You seriously question that?

I suppose you think the oil and gas lobby's objections to the climate change science are merely coincidental to their business interests as well?

Amazingly convenient! :mrgreen:
Your position on the NRA is unsupportable, not serious, and overtly partisan-tainted.
Your launch point for discussion is a nonstarter.
WADR River... if you think the NRA's lobbying influence into gun policy in this country is not a HUGE part of why there is so much polarization on this issue... I think that's a very naive viewpoint.
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by RiverguyVT »

VoiceOfReason wrote: The NRA exists for one purpose - to protect the interests of gun and ammunition manufacturers.
...and.....
VoiceOfReason wrote: WADR River... if you think the NRA's lobbying influence into gun policy in this country is not a HUGE part of why there is so much polarization on this issue... I think that's a very naive viewpoint.
WADR VOR, one is not the other. Yes, they influence gun policy. I made no comment on their effectiveness nor influence. No, the NRA's existence is not solely for the purpose of gun manufacturer interests. Your "one purpose" comment, I say again, is nonsensical and a complete nonstarter.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
cwtcr hokie
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by cwtcr hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
care to expound on how?
Any effort to limit the proliferation of guns, especially those capable of maximizing damage in a short time, addresses all three. Not completely, and not at the same rate, mind you, but that isn't a complete argument to abandon said efforts.
so since the long rifles the two terrorist in kali were using were way illegal, how exactly are you limiting them? most likely they were legal and modified as you cannot nor have been able to buy fully automatic weapons for a very long time.
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by cwtcr hokie »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote: The NRA exists for one purpose - to protect the interests of gun and ammunition manufacturers.
And you say you want serious discussion?
Umm yea. You seriously question that?

I suppose you think the oil and gas lobby's objections to the climate change science are merely coincidental to their business interests as well?

Amazingly convenient! :mrgreen:
yes the earth cooling is a problem I agree
cwtcr hokie
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by cwtcr hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
care to expound on how?
Any effort to limit the proliferation of guns, especially those capable of maximizing damage in a short time, addresses all three. Not completely, and not at the same rate, mind you, but that isn't a complete argument to abandon said efforts.
fyi, if someone wants to off themselves, they don't need a gun so you are not going to save those lives unless the person does not want to die, committing suicide pretty much erases the possibility of them not dying
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by nolanvt »

Prayers are meaningless and unproductive, but I wouldn't coordinate an attack on people choosing to do so.
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VisorBoy
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VisorBoy »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
care to expound on how?
Any effort to limit the proliferation of guns, especially those capable of maximizing damage in a short time, addresses all three. Not completely, and not at the same rate, mind you, but that isn't a complete argument to abandon said efforts.
fyi, if someone wants to off themselves, they don't need a gun so you are not going to save those lives unless the person does not want to die, committing suicide pretty much erases the possibility of them not dying
There are studies out there linking the availability of guns to suicide rates.

In short, people that survive a suicide attempt are highly likely to rebound and not commit suicide. Reducing the ways one can commit suicide (and the effectiveness of them) is a positive for those interested in protecting human life.
Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly.
VisorBoy
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VisorBoy »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:hey are attacking the idea that sending prayers and condolences, but refusing to have any kind of conversation on why this keeps happening or what can be done to reduce these occurrences... is useless
Fine. Let's have a conversation. Of the gun deaths in America, 60+ percent are suicides. Of the remaining gun deaths, the majority are drug and/or gang related. Any serious conversation about reducing gun deaths should start there...not with so-called "assault weapons" (which represent a minuscule portion of the problem) or phony gun show loopholes.
And the good news is that all three problems can be addressed at once.
care to expound on how?
Any effort to limit the proliferation of guns, especially those capable of maximizing damage in a short time, addresses all three. Not completely, and not at the same rate, mind you, but that isn't a complete argument to abandon said efforts.
so since the long rifles the two terrorist in kali were using were way illegal, how exactly are you limiting them? most likely they were legal and modified as you cannot nor have been able to buy fully automatic weapons for a very long time.
As I said, limiting the proliferation of guns does not completely solve the problem.
Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly.
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Hokie5150
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by Hokie5150 »

VisorBoy wrote:There are studies out there linking the availability of guns to suicide rates.
and yet Japan, which has virtually no private gun ownership has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by VisorBoy »

Hokie5150 wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:There are studies out there linking the availability of guns to suicide rates.
and yet Japan, which has virtually no private gun ownership has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.
And who knows how high it would be if they had easy access to guns.
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Re: Left wing coordinated attack on "prayers" for San Bernar

Post by cwtcr hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:There are studies out there linking the availability of guns to suicide rates.
and yet Japan, which has virtually no private gun ownership has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.
And who knows how high it would be if they had easy access to guns.
So you threw out some issues, exactly how are you "limiting the proliferation of all types of guns"? serious question but I am doubting anybody will answer

I am completely unaware of how you tell that someone is going to commit suicide but maybe you can tell, if you can let the FBI know when the next us terrorist cell is going to strike please

and you are saying other methods of suicide do not work, they do, lots of them do, even gun suicide attempts fail at times. I care about human life but if a human wants to stop breathing who am I to say they should not be able to do that to themselves?
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