Tamir Rice Shows You Can Get Away With Murder

[CWHOKIECPA]

Read the words I type and respond to those words. Don't react and respond with what you assume I must think, because your typically wrong, if this thread is an indicator.

Okay. I went back and looked at your original post. I was in Star Wars yesterday when I read it for the first time. It was during the previews. I agree with your original post. The thread got murkier as we went along. I agree with your post. You may be right, he may be alive if he were white. Yes, there is subconscious bias. It's created by being out on the street and seeing who is more likely to commit violent crime. It's in the stats.

I'd agree to that and my response to BG is/was "What is wrong with that?" I'm not sure I got a response.

So it's fair to say you believe that there is some truth to accusations that people get pulled over or stopped by police for "driving while black" or "walking while black" or whatever the hashtag de jour is...

You believe because of statistics that blacks commit more crimes, etc. that black people are policed in our society, on average, differently?

And let me expand to actually answer your question: what's wrong with that is that it increases the likelihood for innocent black people to be on the receiving end of bad law enforcement relative to innocent non-blacks. That's a unique problem for law abiding black citizens of the USA. We all seem to agree that some level of that problem is inherent based on the statistics, however, I suggest that learning and admitting that these biases exist and that they can negatively impact an encounter is the first step in finding ways to mitigate this unique risk for innocent American citizens who's skin color happens to be black.

And the bigger problem doesn't have to do with race, I simply think our government police agents have seized too much power in how they deal with its citizens in just about all policing aspects, to include use of force.

No. That has nothing to do with this conversation. Again, you don't seem to understand the differences in situations. The boy with a gun has nothing to do with 'driving while black." Driving while black is getting pulled over just because you are black. That is racism. That wasn't the case with this kid. The police thought he had a real gun. It's not the same.

Are they policed differently? No. They just commit more violent crime and cops are more cautious around them. That is not a difference in policing.

As for you second paragraph. You can't train away the statistics. The problem is unique for blacks because of black people. Why don't Asians have the same problem? The simple fact, is that Asians aren't perceived as a big threat, because the stats say so. I will say, I don't know if an Asian kid would have been shot in that situation. We really don't know.

[USN_Hokie]

Read the words I type and respond to those words. Don't react and respond with what you assume I must think, because your typically wrong, if this thread is an indicator.

Okay. I went back and looked at your original post. I was in Star Wars yesterday when I read it for the first time. It was during the previews. I agree with your original post. The thread got murkier as we went along. I agree with your post. You may be right, he may be alive if he were white. Yes, there is subconscious bias. It's created by being out on the street and seeing who is more likely to commit violent crime. It's in the stats.

I'd agree to that and my response to BG is/was "What is wrong with that?" I'm not sure I got a response.

Do you guys really think the cop is going through these calculations in that situation? He had a second to react. I think it was more like "on call about a gun", "I see the suspect", "he's going for something ...", and then "shoot!". People aren't thinking about the grander scheme in life in situations like that, it's a survival instinct and everything else disappears in the moment. I think blaming it on the subconscious is a bit of a cop out, no phun intended. His subconscious would more likely be on things like not committing murder as he knows the law, not starting a riot as was happening in Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. , and not being labeled a racist for shooting a black kid(as these guys are trying to do). For each factor saying he was thinking of crime stats, there's more reason to not shot a black unless it's a clear decision. Anyway, I think all of this is overcomplicating a simple interaction. This really isn't complicated and the convolution is injected to make it a race issue when there's no evidence it is.

No, the bias is introduced when the cop IN CLEVELAND is responding to a report of a BLACK MALE with a GUN IN THE GHETTO. This is the piece the BG and FloHo keep ignoring. Everything capitalized is a factor when the cop is contemplating how dangerous the situation he is entering is, and its completely rational.

I agree only that it might put him in a more heightened state. But still contend all of that disappears in a life and death situation and it becomes see threat, react. This wasn't his first day in the ghetto, he should be used to this type of call. I doubt that was the first gun pointed at him either. I take it you've been in a life and death situation before, right? Maybe I'm projecting my own experiences, but anything outside of survival wasn't on my mind. When I hit a bear with my truck, the bear literally looked highlighted to me, that's literally all I saw as the rest of the world faded into the background. I was wrapped in my anchor line and got wrapped around a bridge pylon in 40 degree water and air temp by myself, again, freeing myself was the only thought in my mind. All I saw was the bridge, the tools to free myself, and the pylon. Everything not critical to success might as well have not existed. I have several other examples and in all of them the danger and way out of it was all I contemplated. Maybe the cop is wired differently, but I figure this type of survival mode is engaged in most people in similar situations.

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

[awesome guy]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

[Florida Hokie]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

[awesome guy]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

Here we go in circles. You're too much of a simpleton to access who is and isn't one. No one is distorting your dumb statements, we're showing how they're dumb. The injection of race into this is your own racism on display.

[Florida Hokie]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

Here we go in circles. You're too much of a simpleton to access who is and isn't one. No one is distorting your dumb statements, we're showing how they're dumb. The injection of race into this is your own racism on display.

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

[awesome guy]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

Here we go in circles. You're too much of a simpleton to access who is and isn't one. No one is distorting your dumb statements, we're showing how they're dumb. The injection of race into this is your own racism on display.

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

If you were as smart as a mule then your mind could simultaneously hold the ideas of the cop not being a criminal or racist with the idea of the kid also behaving in a way that created his own demise. But keep on interpreting that last bit as the kid deserving death because of some made up evil in your head. Koo-koo.

[USN_Hokie]

"DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Bit early to start drinking, don't you think?



Nobody here has called the kid stupid. He's just doing what he learned.

[Florida Hokie]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

Here we go in circles. You're too much of a simpleton to access who is and isn't one. No one is distorting your dumb statements, we're showing how they're dumb. The injection of race into this is your own racism on display.

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

If you were as smart as a mule then your mind could simultaneously hold the ideas of the cop not being a criminal or racist with the idea of the kid also behaving in a way that created his own demise. But keep on interpreting that last bit as the kid deserving death because of some made up evil in your head. Koo-koo.

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

[Florida Hokie]

"DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Bit early to start drinking, don't you think?



Nobody here has called the kid stupid. He's just doing what he learned.

No - but some have blamed him for being killed by an officer of the law - oh, and for not having a dad.

[CWHOKIECPA]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

Here we go in circles. You're too much of a simpleton to access who is and isn't one. No one is distorting your dumb statements, we're showing how they're dumb. The injection of race into this is your own racism on display.

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Now release young anger. Only your hatred can destroy awesomeguy.

[awesome guy]

"DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Bit early to start drinking, don't you think?



Nobody here has called the kid stupid. He's just doing what he learned.

I haven't, but I will call him stupid. Sure, that goes with the turf of being a kid, but he should also know better. Now he just knows Jesus as he's dead.

When I was much younger than him, like 4th grade, we shot .22s at camp. I once shot a pinecone right in front of the range, instead of the target, and before the counselor gave us the go ahead. And boy did I get in trouble, not only from him, but the most that night from dad, the marine. He went off on me about gun safety, always being in control of the weapon, etc. And then about following orders. And also I got in the most trouble by lying and saying it went off on it's own. Dad called me out on that and chewed me out about lying and your word is your honor. I never made that mistake again. And those are the lesson some here are intentionally ignoring. The dad has to be around to teach their kid such lessons. Or at least give a crap about the kid so he isn't running around a park pointing a gun at random people. It's an obvious and simple reality that I can only assume is in protest from one because his dad wasn't around and so he was a turd and the other because his 2015 persona is of a dumbass. To really piss these idiots off, the counselor was black. So not only did racist me have a black counselor, he was held in high enough esteem to not only talk with my dad about the incident, but also be believed which led to me getting an ass whopping. I think the interactions with blacks here by some is limited to watching the rapping McDonald's commercials on TV.

[awesome guy]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

[CWHOKIECPA]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

Because of bias, not racism. We are trying to establish that here. Can both of you agree on that and move on. Don't make me destroy you.

[RiverguyVT]

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."
Better?

Now release young anger. Only your hatred can destroy awesomeguy.

/thread

[awesome guy]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

Because of bias, not racism. We are trying to establish that here. Can both of you agree on that and move on. Don't make me destroy you.

I don't believe so. I bet anyone would have been shot in that same circumstance, regardless of race. I'll agree that there's a bias with age and maybe even gender( an 80 year old woman may not have been shot in this case, but likely still would have). But white, asian, latino, whatever of the same size and age group with the cop out on a call about someone brandishing a firearm, the cop approaching them only to have them make a move for what the presumed weapon? Yep, they're getting shot too. I doubt the cop had much of a chance to even think about it and he really just acted to the perceived threat.

[Florida Hokie]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

Because of bias, not racism. We are trying to establish that here. Can both of you agree on that and move on. Don't make me destroy you.

I got no beef with that. I never said the guy was a racist. The resident racist accused me of saying it.

[Florida Hokie]

"DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Bit early to start drinking, don't you think?



Nobody here has called the kid stupid. He's just doing what he learned.

I haven't, but I will call him stupid. Sure, that goes with the turf of being a kid, but he should also know better. Now he just knows Jesus as he's dead.

When I was much younger than him, like 4th grade, we shot .22s at camp. I once shot a pinecone right in front of the range, instead of the target, and before the counselor gave us the go ahead. And boy did I get in trouble, not only from him, but the most that night from dad, the marine. He went off on me about gun safety, always being in control of the weapon, etc. And then about following orders. And also I got in the most trouble by lying and saying it went off on it's own. Dad called me out on that and chewed me out about lying and your word is your honor. I never made that mistake again. And those are the lesson some here are intentionally ignoring. The dad has to be around to teach their kid such lessons. Or at least give a crap about the kid so he isn't running around a park pointing a gun at random people. It's an obvious and simple reality that I can only assume is in protest from one because his dad wasn't around and so he was a turd and the other because his 2015 persona is of a dumbass. To really piss these idiots off, the counselor was black. So not only did racist me have a black counselor, he was held in high enough esteem to not only talk with my dad about the incident, but also be believed which led to me getting an ass whopping. I think the interactions with blacks here by some is limited to watching the rapping McDonald's commercials on TV.

WOW! You had a black camp counselor!?!?!? My bad, NO WAY you could be racist.

[awesome guy]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

Because of bias, not racism. We are trying to establish that here. Can both of you agree on that and move on. Don't make me destroy you.

I got no beef with that. I never said the guy was a racist. The resident racist accused me of saying it.

you called yourself a racist? I hope 2016 isn't another year of you being a dumbass.

[Florida Hokie]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

Because of bias, not racism. We are trying to establish that here. Can both of you agree on that and move on. Don't make me destroy you.

I don't believe so. I bet anyone would have been shot in that same circumstance, regardless of race. I'll agree that there's a bias with age and maybe even gender( an 80 year old woman may not have been shot in this case, but likely still would have). But white, asian, latino, whatever of the same size and age group with the cop out on a call about someone brandishing a firearm, the cop approaching them only to have them make a move for what the presumed weapon? Yep, they're getting shot too. I doubt the cop had much of a chance to even think about it and he really just acted to the perceived threat.

Just to recap folks - AG agrees that there is bias with age and gender, which suggests that biases play a role in people's actions. Apparently, however, there is no freaking way possible race could be the source of bias. That only goes against, oh, the entire history of man, but hey - he could be right.

[awesome guy]

I haven't called the cop a criminal or a racist. Try a new approach pinhead.

BS. Then why would the kid allegedly be alive if he were white? Trying thinking for a change friend.

Because of bias, not racism. We are trying to establish that here. Can both of you agree on that and move on. Don't make me destroy you.

I don't believe so. I bet anyone would have been shot in that same circumstance, regardless of race. I'll agree that there's a bias with age and maybe even gender( an 80 year old woman may not have been shot in this case, but likely still would have). But white, asian, latino, whatever of the same size and age group with the cop out on a call about someone brandishing a firearm, the cop approaching them only to have them make a move for what the presumed weapon? Yep, they're getting shot too. I doubt the cop had much of a chance to even think about it and he really just acted to the perceived threat.

Just to recap folks - AG agrees that there is bias with age and gender, which suggests that biases play a role in people's actions. Apparently, however, there is no freaking way possible race could be the source of bias. That only goes against, oh, the entire history of man, but hey - he could be right.

Come on, stop with this dumbass act, assuming it's an act. 99% of the bias was the kid having a gun and going for it. And again, because of racists like you and BG, the cops are overly sensitive to acting against blacks. So for every reason there is for him to be biased against blacks, there's more for him to be biased in favor of them. If you idiots would just stop trying to turn everything into a racial issue then racial issues would go away. In other words, your idiotic butt aching is the source of racism because you're racist.

[USN_Hokie]

This is really two different issues IMO. As you said, the second issue doesn't have anything to do with race so I'll save that for another day.

Let's stick to violent crimes then...

You believe because of statistics that blacks commit more crimes, etc. that black people are policed in our society, on average, differently? We seem to both agree that the answer is yes.

And let me expand to actually answer your question: what's wrong with that is that it increases the likelihood for innocent black people to be on the receiving end of bad law enforcement relative to innocent non-blacks. That's a unique problem for law abiding black citizens of the USA. We all seem to agree that some level of that problem is inherent based on the statistics, however, I suggest that learning and admitting that these biases exist and that they can negatively impact an encounter is the first step in finding ways to mitigate this unique risk for innocent American citizens who's skin color happens to be black.

Yes, there is a cycle of suspicion among police leading to mistrust of blacks. But the statistics do not lie: over half of all murder, rape, and robbery in the US is committed by 13% of the population. Police didn't cause that. Police don't make folks rob, murder, and rape people. Contributing to this is that most of the crime is concentrated within small urban areas which makes apprehension/confrontation more likely (you playing with a pellet gun you your back yard isn't going to draw as much attention as Tamir in his).

IMO, the onus is greater on blacks to break the cycle because frankly, the statistics support the notion that an encounter with someone who is black is more likely to have a violent outcome. OTOH, being on the receiving end of bad law enforcement might mean leaving with a hurt ego.

The cops zoomed up on Tamir, likely because experience has taught them that the encounter would result in a chase and this was the safest method for them to apprehend him. The flip side is that left them with less time to decide whether he was a threat. Here's a white guy from Florida who was shot while handcuffed just this morning: http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/deputy-in ... -20151230/ He did something stupid. Nobody is marching in the street.

[USN_Hokie]

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Now release young anger. Only your hatred can destroy awesomeguy.

POTD, LOL.

[awesome guy]

This is really two different issues IMO. As you said, the second issue doesn't have anything to do with race so I'll save that for another day.

Let's stick to violent crimes then...

You believe because of statistics that blacks commit more crimes, etc. that black people are policed in our society, on average, differently? We seem to both agree that the answer is yes.

And let me expand to actually answer your question: what's wrong with that is that it increases the likelihood for innocent black people to be on the receiving end of bad law enforcement relative to innocent non-blacks. That's a unique problem for law abiding black citizens of the USA. We all seem to agree that some level of that problem is inherent based on the statistics, however, I suggest that learning and admitting that these biases exist and that they can negatively impact an encounter is the first step in finding ways to mitigate this unique risk for innocent American citizens who's skin color happens to be black.

Yes, there is a cycle of suspicion among police leading to mistrust of blacks. But the statistics do not lie: over half of all murder, rape, and robbery in the US is committed by 13% of the population. Police didn't cause that. Police don't make folks rob, murder, and rape people. Contributing to this is that most of the crime is concentrated within small urban areas which makes apprehension/confrontation more likely (you playing with a pellet gun you your back yard isn't going to draw as much attention as Tamir in his).

IMO, the onus is greater on blacks to break the cycle because frankly, the statistics support the notion that an encounter with someone who is black is more likely to have a violent outcome. OTOH, being on the receiving end of bad law enforcement might mean leaving with a hurt ego.

The cops zoomed up on Tamir, likely because experience has taught them that the encounter would result in a chase and this was the safest method for them to apprehend him. The flip side is that left them with less time to decide whether he was a threat. Here's a white guy from Florida who was shot while handcuffed just this morning: http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/deputy-in ... -20151230/ He did something stupid. Nobody is marching in the street.

The cops are already way ahead of this. It's called community policing. And I think it got called out in this thread, people complain that the cops send black people into black neighborhoods(read greater crime) at higher rates because they're trying to build greater community support with police who are the same race as the community. At a higher level, our problem is we have too many ignorant people like BG who bitch at everything and aren't clear enough thinkers to realize there's consequences to each of their proposed solutions. And at the end of the day, the statistics don't really change that much. What does help is incarceration. Community policing was tried in Richmond and failed. And now we're talking about bringing back the George Allen era practice of Project Exile which tacked on federal charges to any crime committed with a gun, which adds 5-10 years in sentencing. I bet if we tracked crime rates to time in the slammer, we'd see that what's really happening is crime ebbs when these same individuals are incarcerated and then flows as they are released. It seems to follow that 10 year sentences begets 10 years of diminishing crime for an increase 10 years later. And this jives with recidivation rates. But of course then people bitch about incarceration rates. So choose your poison. You're either going to live with high crime or higher incarceration rates. Some people just aren't fit for society. Increasing educational spending doesn't work and neither will legalizing drugs. What might, which hasn't been tried in a while, is penal colonies. We could create one in Alaska or some other remote location and turn it over to both male and female criminals for them to make their own society. That would certainly lower crime and incarceration rates, but what kind of a nation would such a place become? It worked for Australia so who knows.

[awesome guy]

Sure. The kid's fate was sealed when he reached for the fake gun as the cops rolled up on him. If he had put his hands up, stayed seated (or hell, even ran) he'd almost certainly be alive today. His fate still ultimately falls on his actions (which, as a 12yo, fall on his parents).

Yep. And I think that's all that matter when assigning blame or criminality. Or even calling the cop a racist and this a racist encounter. The kid (for whatever reason) put the cop in a position to make a decision if he as a threat to his life or not. The cop just acted as most everyone else would have, and as he lawfully can. And so solutions work from there out, about finding ways for kids to not put themselves in that situation. Calling it racism is for the simpletons.

Refusing to examine the role race played in the circumstances is for the simpletons. But to conclude that the event SOLELY are the result of the actions of the 12 year old and his parents is truly a simpleton's conclusion.

But please, continue to twist and distort claims and statements of other posters to make yourself feel comfortable with your conclusion.

Here we go in circles. You're too much of a simpleton to access who is and isn't one. No one is distorting your dumb statements, we're showing how they're dumb. The injection of race into this is your own racism on display.

You're right. Let me change my conclusion. "DUMBASS 12 Year Old kid! Stupid dadless f*ck deserved to be killed. Probably more out there like him just itching to die."

Better?

Now release young anger. Only your hatred can destroy awesomeguy.

Strike me down and I'll become stronger than you could ever imagine Darth.