Tamir Rice Shows You Can Get Away With Murder

[Florida Hokie]

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been perceived as a threat? Because statistically, the cop would be right to feel that way ( and before you say it, he was 5'7” 195lbs. He was not obviously a child).

The stats show that on the whole, blacks commit more violent crime. To be more cautious or skeptical of them makes sense. Everyone on earth does this. The police see what is out there everyday. They have way more of a feel for it than we do. I admit I would be less skeptical of an Asian person as far as violent crime goes. Even less than a white person, because as a whole they just don't seem to commit a lot of violent crime.

Right - and a 12 year old boy is dead because of it. Now since we are all agreed can we all agree that's a problem and the answer isn't that the 12 year old should have known better?

[Florida Hokie]

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been perceived as a threat? Because statistically, the cop would be right to feel that way ( and before you say it, he was 5'7” 195lbs. He was not obviously a child).

The stats show that on the whole, blacks commit more violent crime. To be more cautious or skeptical of them makes sense. Everyone on earth does this. The police see what is out there everyday. They have way more of a feel for it than we do. I admit I would be less skeptical of an Asian person as far as violent crime goes. Even less than a white person, because as a whole they just don't seem to commit a lot of violent crime.

I feel like BG and Flo are arguing for policing in the US to be like a TSA checkpoint...where your 3yo niece gets the same pat down as Yoosef the Saudi national with baggy clothes. Nobody can be profiled, therefor everyone must be profiled. All responses must be the same...if a black kid with a gun gets shot, 66yo grandma needs to take a bullet too.

You feel that way because you are being purposefully ignorant. Neither one of us has said that. That's just an angle you are taking for some stupid reason.

[USN_Hokie]

So you think 13% of the population is arrested for >50% of the violent crime because of subconscious biases? I think the fact that Tamir's dad is AWOL explains part of why Tamir is dead.

That is a **** shitty thing to say.

Jesus. You guys complain about me in this forum but you and AG just spout some God awful excrement. Do you ever think about what you are saying.

You used to not be so aligned with the AG's on this board. You asked what happened to me. What the **** happened to you?

A 12 year old is dead not because a cop over-reacted but because he had the audacity to grow up without a dad.

What the flying **** man?

Yes, I'll stand by that comment. A boy learns respect for authority from his father.

Don't listen to me, though - read the Moynihan Report. A democrat was saying this 50yrs ago. So, I think it's safe to say that you're the one who's (to quote Frank) out of whack.

[USN_Hokie]

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been perceived as a threat? Because statistically, the cop would be right to feel that way ( and before you say it, he was 5'7” 195lbs. He was not obviously a child).

The stats show that on the whole, blacks commit more violent crime. To be more cautious or skeptical of them makes sense. Everyone on earth does this. The police see what is out there everyday. They have way more of a feel for it than we do. I admit I would be less skeptical of an Asian person as far as violent crime goes. Even less than a white person, because as a whole they just don't seem to commit a lot of violent crime.

I feel like BG and Flo are arguing for policing in the US to be like a TSA checkpoint...where your 3yo niece gets the same pat down as Yoosef the Saudi national with baggy clothes. Nobody can be profiled, therefor everyone must be profiled. All responses must be the same...if a black kid with a gun gets shot, 66yo grandma needs to take a bullet too.

You feel that way because you are being purposefully ignorant. Neither one of us has said that. That's just an angle you are taking for some stupid reason.

"Purposefully ignorant" is stating that a cop should treat an old woman in Maybury and (what they thought was) a young man in Cleveland as equal threats.

[Florida Hokie]

So you think 13% of the population is arrested for >50% of the violent crime because of subconscious biases? I think the fact that Tamir's dad is AWOL explains part of why Tamir is dead.

That is a **** shitty thing to say.

Jesus. You guys complain about me in this forum but you and AG just spout some God awful excrement. Do you ever think about what you are saying.

You used to not be so aligned with the AG's on this board. You asked what happened to me. What the **** happened to you?

A 12 year old is dead not because a cop over-reacted but because he had the audacity to grow up without a dad.

What the flying **** man?

Yes, I'll stand by that comment. A boy learns respect for authority from his father.

Don't listen to me, though - read the Moynihan Report. A democrat was saying this 50yrs ago. So, I think it's safe to say that you're the one who's (to quote Frank) out of whack.

I've read the Moynihan report. No where does it say the answer is to indiscriminately shoot black kids because of the environment they were raised in makes them more likely to be violent.

There are white kids without dads and white kids with dads that do stupid excrement too. THe difference is they are less likely to get shot by a cop because they aren't black.

Kids with and without dad's do stupid excrement. That's what kids do. They are learning. Adults aren't supposed to kill them for it.

**** find a heart in your tired ass old man act.

[Florida Hokie]

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been perceived as a threat? Because statistically, the cop would be right to feel that way ( and before you say it, he was 5'7” 195lbs. He was not obviously a child).

The stats show that on the whole, blacks commit more violent crime. To be more cautious or skeptical of them makes sense. Everyone on earth does this. The police see what is out there everyday. They have way more of a feel for it than we do. I admit I would be less skeptical of an Asian person as far as violent crime goes. Even less than a white person, because as a whole they just don't seem to commit a lot of violent crime.

I feel like BG and Flo are arguing for policing in the US to be like a TSA checkpoint...where your 3yo niece gets the same pat down as Yoosef the Saudi national with baggy clothes. Nobody can be profiled, therefor everyone must be profiled. All responses must be the same...if a black kid with a gun gets shot, 66yo grandma needs to take a bullet too.

You feel that way because you are being purposefully ignorant. Neither one of us has said that. That's just an angle you are taking for some stupid reason.

"Purposefully ignorant" is stating that a cop should treat an old woman in Maybury and (what they thought was) a young man in Cleveland as equal threats.

No stupid is understanding why they are treated differently and not **** caring about it.

[Florida Hokie]

It is HIGHLY unlikely this would have happened to a white kid but keep applying your statistics if it makes you feel better.

Let's leave the racist conjecture out of this, shall we?

No. THat is part of the story. I posit that a white kid in the same situation would have been afforded more latitude. You can disagree if you want to but that doesn't mean it is not a valid part of the discussion.

Only your made up BS is valid, got it. Let's upgrade the board by trading Oakton for you.

Oakton is gone because he was a little b*tch. Why don't you stop being a b*tch about it now or go off and find Oakie's new playground so you two can frolic together in your tired, paranoid, racists, pretend-Christian world? It WOULD upgrade this board considerably.

[awesome guy]

So you think 13% of the population is arrested for >50% of the violent crime because of subconscious biases? I think the fact that Tamir's dad is AWOL explains part of why Tamir is dead.

That is a **** shitty thing to say.

Jesus. You guys complain about me in this forum but you and AG just spout some God awful excrement. Do you ever think about what you are saying.

You used to not be so aligned with the AG's on this board. You asked what happened to me. What the **** happened to you?

A 12 year old is dead not because a cop over-reacted but because he had the audacity to grow up without a dad.

What the flying **** man?

You're a moron

[awesome guy]

So you think 13% of the population is arrested for >50% of the violent crime because of subconscious biases? I think the fact that Tamir's dad is AWOL explains part of why Tamir is dead.

That is a **** shitty thing to say.

Jesus. You guys complain about me in this forum but you and AG just spout some God awful excrement. Do you ever think about what you are saying.

You used to not be so aligned with the AG's on this board. You asked what happened to me. What the **** happened to you?

A 12 year old is dead not because a cop over-reacted but because he had the audacity to grow up without a dad.

What the flying **** man?

Yes, I'll stand by that comment. A boy learns respect for authority from his father.

Don't listen to me, though - read the Moynihan Report. A democrat was saying this 50yrs ago. So, I think it's safe to say that you're the one who's (to quote Frank) out of whack.

I've read the Moynihan report. No where does it say the answer is to indiscriminately shoot black kids because of the environment they were raised in makes them more likely to be violent.

There are white kids without dads and white kids with dads that do stupid excrement too. THe difference is they are less likely to get shot by a cop because they aren't black.

Kids with and without dad's do stupid excrement. That's what kids do. They are learning. Adults aren't supposed to kill them for it.

**** find a heart in your tired ass old man act.

Prove it. You're making stuff up.

[awesome guy]

It is HIGHLY unlikely this would have happened to a white kid but keep applying your statistics if it makes you feel better.

Let's leave the racist conjecture out of this, shall we?

No. THat is part of the story. I posit that a white kid in the same situation would have been afforded more latitude. You can disagree if you want to but that doesn't mean it is not a valid part of the discussion.

Only your made up BS is valid, got it. Let's upgrade the board by trading Oakton for you.

Oakton is gone because he was a little b*tch. Why don't you stop being a b*tch about it now or go off and find Oakie's new playground so you two can frolic together in your tired, paranoid, racists, pretend-Christian world? It WOULD upgrade this board considerably.

The board was much better with him and without your whiny ass here. Oakton can make an intelligent argument unlike you who's whole dumbass argument now henges on others "not caring" which is another way of saying you have no argument and are just an emotional bitch.

[Florida Hokie]

you have no argument and are just an emotional bitch.

Says the "man" that has whined about the exit of another poster for two months straight.

Check your own panties before accusing someone else of being a bitch.

[USN_Hokie]

I've read the Moynihan report. No where does it say the answer is to indiscriminately shoot black kids because of the environment they were raised in makes them more likely to be violent.

Maybe you should read it again. The answer to stopping black kids from getting shot is to stop black kids from doing stupid stuff like walking through a park pointing (what looks like) a gun a people. They way to fix the violence, education, and poverty issue in the black community is through family. Fathers need to be dads and the government needs to stop incentivizing single moms.

There are white kids without dads and white kids with dads that do stupid excrement too. THe difference is they are less likely to get shot by a cop because they aren't black.

There are white kids without dads. Those kids are just as disadvantaged - but it's not the epidemic that it is in the black community. Complicating matters is the fact that so many blacks live concentrated in urban communities.

Kids with and without dad's do stupid excrement. That's what kids do. They are learning. Adults aren't supposed to kill them for it.

**** find a heart in your tired ass old man act.

No, that's a silly ignorant statement. Find a brain in your tired ass bleeding heart act.

[USN_Hokie]

you have no argument and are just an emotional bitch.

Says the "man" that has whined about the exit of another poster for two months straight.

Check your own panties before accusing someone else of being a bitch.

You are an emotional wreck since your (most recent) return. You need to relax, go buy a gallon of Ben & Jerry's and watch Steel Magnolias.

[awesome guy]

you have no argument and are just an emotional bitch.

Says the "man" that has whined about the exit of another poster for two months straight.

Check your own panties before accusing someone else of being a bitch.

LOL, you're a joke. You came on here for years just to bitch about Oakton. Just think a bit before posting as to not look so dumb.

[BG Hokie]

You compared a school fight to waving a gun around out in public. Lol. A twelve year old boy should know not to run out in to traffic. He should know that waving a gun around in public is extremely dangerous. Fighting at school? Not as dangerous. And who started the fight?

No, I didn't. Not at all. That's naïve for you to think that's the point I was making. You blamed the parents because they didn't tell the kid not to run around pointing a BB gun at people.

I simply commented on how dumb of a thought process that was for you to blame the parents.

The fact that he was doing something like that leads me to believe that they didn't.

And this is why it's a stupid thought process, you're willing to blame the parents based on nothing other than the speculation that he's never been told to not point a BB gun at people. My parents taught me not to be violent but I got in fights in childhood. But using your logic given that I got in fights in childhood, my parents must have not taught me right and, therefore, my parents are to blame. It's just a stupid line of thought based on such little information.

[BG Hokie]

I truly believe if the kid were white, he'd be alive, not because the officer is necessarily a bigot but because of subconscious bias on the perception of threat.

Don't you think that a cop in Cleveland should have a biased perception of a threat (as opposed to say...a Blacksburg Police Officer)? That sounds completely reasonable to me.

Yes, I think so, and based on crime statistics it's probably logical that a black adolescent is a bigger perceived risk than a white kid to your average police officer. Now tell me again how I'm crazy for thinking this kid would be alive if he were white?

So. What is your point? Whose fault is it? If it is logical that blacks are perceived to be more dangerous, then this sort of thing should be expected.

My original point was that if the kid were white, he'd be alive.

If we, as a society, can begin to understand that we perceive races and people differently than I think we can begin to counter subconscious biases that can have tragic consequences.

That would require you to go against human nature. Good luck with that. It won't happen. We perceive a difference, because there is a difference. It's not subconscious. I already pointed that out in the case of the white woman. She is going to be perceived as less dangerous, because on the whole, she is. There isn't anything that you can do about this. It's here. The best thing that can happen is for black people to commit less crime and the statistics change. Once that happens, people may change their views. Until then, good luck. No amount of training will help.

There is one thing that you could attempt. Put black officers in mostly black neighborhoods. My guess, is that in short order they will start to complain that they are working the high crime areas and its not fair. They would complain that black officers are in more danger than white officers. Oops.

Human nature as in a learned behavior or a behavior your born with? If it's a learned behavior, it could clearly change.

[awesome guy]

You compared a school fight to waving a gun around out in public. Lol. A twelve year old boy should know not to run out in to traffic. He should know that waving a gun around in public is extremely dangerous. Fighting at school? Not as dangerous. And who started the fight?

No, I didn't. Not at all. That's naïve for you to think that's the point I was making. You blamed the parents because they didn't tell the kid not to run around pointing a BB gun at people.

I simply commented on how dumb of a thought process that was for you to blame the parents.

The fact that he was doing something like that leads me to believe that they didn't.

And this is why it's a stupid thought process, you're willing to blame the parents based on nothing other than the speculation that he's never been told to not point a BB gun at people. My parents taught me not to be violent but I got in fights in childhood. But using your logic given that I got in fights in childhood, my parents must have not taught me right and, therefore, my parents are to blame. It's just a stupid line of thought based on such little information.

Try again. You're thought process is stupid. You're so full of racism that you're willing to send an innocent white cop to jail to murder because a black kid wasn't smart enough or taught to never point a gun at anyone, much less a cop. And let's not call this a BB gun, it was a gun that's indistinguishable from a gun unless in direct contact. You and FloHo shrugging this off as kids being kids and so the cop should have not shot is just dumb and willfully ignorant of the facts at hand. Given your exchange about the guy yelling at a kid for walking out in front of a moving vehicle, I guess you're just a fan of douchebag behavior and totally against authority. Oh well, you're just setting yourself up to be pissed off your whole life as the rest of us follow through logically on your punkish behavior.

[BG Hokie]

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been perceived as a threat? Because statistically, the cop would be right to feel that way ( and before you say it, he was 5'7” 195lbs. He was not obviously a child).

The stats show that on the whole, blacks commit more violent crime. To be more cautious or skeptical of them makes sense. Everyone on earth does this. The police see what is out there everyday. They have way more of a feel for it than we do. I admit I would be less skeptical of an Asian person as far as violent crime goes. Even less than a white person, because as a whole they just don't seem to commit a lot of violent crime.

I feel like BG and Flo are arguing for policing in the US to be like a TSA checkpoint...where your 3yo niece gets the same pat down as Yoosef the Saudi national with baggy clothes. Nobody can be profiled, therefor everyone must be profiled. All responses must be the same...if a black kid with a gun gets shot, 66yo grandma needs to take a bullet too.

LOL, let me get this right. In this thread I assert my opinion that this kid would be alive if he were white to which the usual butt hurt commences. You were annoyed with the conjecture, if I remember correctly.

Later in this thread, you guys come around to agreeing with my entire premise as to why it's plausible that he would be alive if he were white. With nothing really left, you post this gem. LMAO, and you were the one annoyed with conjecture? Classic. You're actually a good poster, a stubborn son of a bitch, but a good poster. This has got to be your lamest moment of 2015. Congrats. If you want to get back in the real world and discuss what people are actually saying instead of making stuff up then let me know.

[RiverguyVT]

... I can't imagine the number of errors that took place by the one to two officers on the scene.

One-and-five-eighths cop?

I truly believe if the kid were white, he'd be alive, not because the officer is necessarily a bigot but because of subconscious bias on the perception of threat.

Yeah. Anecdotally, I know of a City of Richmond cop that was being charged by his (black) co-workers, internally through H.R., of racism against blacks. They had a hearing and everything. Allowed the accused cop to bring in character witnesses, to help prove the negative. Not only has he not stopped beating his wife, but she took the witness stand on his behalf. She's black. She assured City of Richmond Police H.R. that her white husband was not, in fact, racist against blacks. Further evidence was apparent as several mulatto children of his sat in the lobby.

I doubt this officer is a bigot, either.

Kid shouldn't have been running around with a gun.
At 12, I shouldn't have been running around with M-80s.

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

People who are not racist, don't necessarily have the same reaction when they see people of different races? In this day and age, racism if you can even call it that, is more likely subconscious.

I think I was agreeing with you. That we both doubt the officer is a bigot. (hence, my "either"). You had come right out and said he wasn't.
It's a shirty situation, for sure. My anecdote was implying that maybe a black cop would've shot the kid, too.
Who knows?

[awesome guy]

I've read the Moynihan report. No where does it say the answer is to indiscriminately shoot black kids because of the environment they were raised in makes them more likely to be violent.

Maybe you should read it again. The answer to stopping black kids from getting shot is to stop black kids from doing stupid stuff like walking through a park pointing (what looks like) a gun a people. They way to fix the violence, education, and poverty issue in the black community is through family. Fathers need to be dads and the government needs to stop incentivizing single moms.

There are white kids without dads and white kids with dads that do stupid excrement too. THe difference is they are less likely to get shot by a cop because they aren't black.

There are white kids without dads. Those kids are just as disadvantaged - but it's not the epidemic that it is in the black community. Complicating matters is the fact that so many blacks live concentrated in urban communities.

Kids with and without dad's do stupid excrement. That's what kids do. They are learning. Adults aren't supposed to kill them for it.

**** find a heart in your tired ass old man act.

No, that's a silly ignorant statement. Find a brain in your tired ass bleeding heart act.

I think he and BG are just against anti-authority. Or they're so racist that they would convict an innocent white man of murder just because they think the black kid has a hard life. IE, FloHo doesn't care about white people! I care about the law and justice. This cop did nothing criminal. That doesn't mean I don't feel bad for the kid or his parents, it means I'm not going to protest for the cop the be jailed or executed. You and CW are right and they are wrong about the parents. It's obvious that the parents teaching their kids basic respect or even common sense would have prevented this from happening. Not just from the kid running around the park and pointing the gun at people in the first place, but knowing how to act around authority figures. But the dad wasn't around to teach him this and who knows what the mom is up to. You can't blame the cop for defending his life from a perceived threat, you blame the kid for creating the perceived threat. And because of his age, that blame falls on the parents who weren't watching him as he menaced the park nor taught him basic respect or common sense. I get the feeling these two were also little assholes growing up and so naturally empathize with the punks.

[awesome guy]

... I can't imagine the number of errors that took place by the one to two officers on the scene.

One-and-five-eighths cop?

I truly believe if the kid were white, he'd be alive, not because the officer is necessarily a bigot but because of subconscious bias on the perception of threat.

Yeah. Anecdotally, I know of a City of Richmond cop that was being charged by his (black) co-workers, internally through H.R., of racism against blacks. They had a hearing and everything. Allowed the accused cop to bring in character witnesses, to help prove the negative. Not only has he not stopped beating his wife, but she took the witness stand on his behalf. She's black. She assured City of Richmond Police H.R. that her white husband was not, in fact, racist against blacks. Further evidence was apparent as several mulatto children of his sat in the lobby.

I doubt this officer is a bigot, either.

Kid shouldn't have been running around with a gun.
At 12, I shouldn't have been running around with M-80s.

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

People who are not racist, don't necessarily have the same reaction when they see people of different races? In this day and age, racism if you can even call it that, is more likely subconscious.

I think I was agreeing with you. That we both doubt the officer is a bigot. (hence, my "either"). You had come right out and said he wasn't.
It's a shirty situation, for sure. My anecdote was implying that maybe a black cop would've shot the kid, too.
Who knows?

Yep. And a white kid of similar size and behavior would have been shot too. It's nonsense to claim this was racism. Calling it racism shows how weak their argument is about this being murder. It's about a kid acting stupidly(which they do) and putting the cop(or really anyone) in a situation where they have a second to decide to defend their life from a perceived threat or not. Race has nothing to do with it unless you're a racist.

[Florida Hokie]

I've read the Moynihan report. No where does it say the answer is to indiscriminately shoot black kids because of the environment they were raised in makes them more likely to be violent.

Maybe you should read it again. The answer to stopping black kids from getting shot is to stop black kids from doing stupid stuff like walking through a park pointing (what looks like) a gun a people. They way to fix the violence, education, and poverty issue in the black community is through family. Fathers need to be dads and the government needs to stop incentivizing single moms.

There are white kids without dads and white kids with dads that do stupid excrement too. THe difference is they are less likely to get shot by a cop because they aren't black.

There are white kids without dads. Those kids are just as disadvantaged - but it's not the epidemic that it is in the black community. Complicating matters is the fact that so many blacks live concentrated in urban communities.

Kids with and without dad's do stupid excrement. That's what kids do. They are learning. Adults aren't supposed to kill them for it.

**** find a heart in your tired ass old man act.

No, that's a silly ignorant statement. Find a brain in your tired ass bleeding heart act.

I think he and BG are just against anti-authority. Or they're so racist that they would convict an innocent white man of murder just because they think the black kid has a hard life. IE, FloHo doesn't care about white people! I care about the law and justice. This cop did nothing criminal. That doesn't mean I don't feel bad for the kid or his parents, it means I'm not going to protest for the cop the be jailed or executed. You and CW are right and they are wrong about the parents. It's obvious that the parents teaching their kids basic respect or even common sense would have prevented this from happening. Not just from the kid running around the park and pointing the gun at people in the first place, but knowing how to act around authority figures. But the dad wasn't around to teach him this and who knows what the mom is up to. You can't blame the cop for defending his life from a perceived threat, you blame the kid for creating the perceived threat. And because of his age, that blame falls on the parents who weren't watching him as he menaced the park nor taught him basic respect or common sense. I get the feeling these two were also little assholes growing up and so naturally empathize with the punks.

I never said the cop should be convicted of murder.

You feel bad for the kid and his parents but you are going to blame them for the entire thing.

"It's obvious that the parents teaching their kids basic respect or even common sense would have prevented this from happening."

That's simplistic and wrong headed. There are literally THOUSANDS of examples of children that were raised "the right way" that went south. THat a black 12 year old kid was shot dead by police is a matter of many things:

1) Did the kid do something stupid? Yes.
2) Did the dispatcher do something stupid (not telling the cops that the caller said the suspect may be a kid)? Yes.
3) Did the cops act more aggressive than necessary? THat is up for debate. I know where you sit but I think they did and I think they did because the kid was black. That you and others have pointed out that, statistically the cop's defensiveness is supported, indicates that you agree the cops acted differently because the kid was black. BG and I both assert that a white kid in the same situation would have been afforded more time. Statistics may support the aggression but that doesn't make it right that a 12 year old kid is dead.

[BG Hokie]

... I can't imagine the number of errors that took place by the one to two officers on the scene.

One-and-five-eighths cop?

I truly believe if the kid were white, he'd be alive, not because the officer is necessarily a bigot but because of subconscious bias on the perception of threat.

Yeah. Anecdotally, I know of a City of Richmond cop that was being charged by his (black) co-workers, internally through H.R., of racism against blacks. They had a hearing and everything. Allowed the accused cop to bring in character witnesses, to help prove the negative. Not only has he not stopped beating his wife, but she took the witness stand on his behalf. She's black. She assured City of Richmond Police H.R. that her white husband was not, in fact, racist against blacks. Further evidence was apparent as several mulatto children of his sat in the lobby.

I doubt this officer is a bigot, either.

Kid shouldn't have been running around with a gun.
At 12, I shouldn't have been running around with M-80s.

Great anecdote and one that clearly misses the point. Who said the officer is a bigot? I didn't and I don't necessarily think he is... I just think that it's likely the 12 year old was perceived to be more of a threat because he was black than if he were white. Is it that hard to understand?

People who are not racist, don't necessarily have the same reaction when they see people of different races? In this day and age, racism if you can even call it that, is more likely subconscious.

I think I was agreeing with you. That we both doubt the officer is a bigot. (hence, my "either"). You had come right out and said he wasn't.
It's a shirty situation, for sure. My anecdote was implying that maybe a black cop would've shot the kid, too.
Who knows?

I'd say there is a decent chance a black cop would have shot him too but probably lesser so... A impossible thing to assign probabilities to, for sure.

The issue more than anything is the way officers are trained. I remember on the old UWS someone linked an article about a black man with a machete in Seattle in the 1990's. The guy was crazy. The police talked to him and talked to him for minutes and minutes, maybe even hours. Eventually they distracted him, a cop came from behind risked his life and knocked the machete out of his hand, and they arrested him. Nowadays, that guy would be shot in 2 seconds... Anecdotal stuff for sure, but I think we need to get back to an era where citizens are given the benefit of the doubt for more than 1.5 seconds.

[awesome guy]

I've read the Moynihan report. No where does it say the answer is to indiscriminately shoot black kids because of the environment they were raised in makes them more likely to be violent.

Maybe you should read it again. The answer to stopping black kids from getting shot is to stop black kids from doing stupid stuff like walking through a park pointing (what looks like) a gun a people. They way to fix the violence, education, and poverty issue in the black community is through family. Fathers need to be dads and the government needs to stop incentivizing single moms.

There are white kids without dads and white kids with dads that do stupid excrement too. THe difference is they are less likely to get shot by a cop because they aren't black.

There are white kids without dads. Those kids are just as disadvantaged - but it's not the epidemic that it is in the black community. Complicating matters is the fact that so many blacks live concentrated in urban communities.

Kids with and without dad's do stupid excrement. That's what kids do. They are learning. Adults aren't supposed to kill them for it.

**** find a heart in your tired ass old man act.

No, that's a silly ignorant statement. Find a brain in your tired ass bleeding heart act.

I think he and BG are just against anti-authority. Or they're so racist that they would convict an innocent white man of murder just because they think the black kid has a hard life. IE, FloHo doesn't care about white people! I care about the law and justice. This cop did nothing criminal. That doesn't mean I don't feel bad for the kid or his parents, it means I'm not going to protest for the cop the be jailed or executed. You and CW are right and they are wrong about the parents. It's obvious that the parents teaching their kids basic respect or even common sense would have prevented this from happening. Not just from the kid running around the park and pointing the gun at people in the first place, but knowing how to act around authority figures. But the dad wasn't around to teach him this and who knows what the mom is up to. You can't blame the cop for defending his life from a perceived threat, you blame the kid for creating the perceived threat. And because of his age, that blame falls on the parents who weren't watching him as he menaced the park nor taught him basic respect or common sense. I get the feeling these two were also little assholes growing up and so naturally empathize with the punks.

I never said the cop should be convicted of murder.

You feel bad for the kid and his parents but you are going to blame them for the entire thing.

"It's obvious that the parents teaching their kids basic respect or even common sense would have prevented this from happening."

That's simplistic and wrong headed. There are literally THOUSANDS of examples of children that were raised "the right way" that went south. THat a black 12 year old kid was shot dead by police is a matter of many things:

1) Did the kid do something stupid? Yes.
2) Did the dispatcher do something stupid (not telling the cops that the caller said the suspect may be a kid)? Yes.
3) Did the cops act more aggressive than necessary? THat is up for debate. I know where you sit but I think they did and I think they did because the kid was black. That you and others have pointed out that, statistically the cop's defensiveness is supported, indicates that you agree the cops acted differently because the kid was black. BG and I both assert that a white kid in the same situation would have been afforded more time. Statistics may support the aggression but that doesn't make it right that a 12 year old kid is dead.

1) The title of the thread is "Tamir Rice Shows You Can Get Away With Murder". You and BG have defended that for 9 pages. Or are you so feeble minded as to accuse the cop of shooting the kid because he's black and saying that's not murder?
2) No, they didn't do something stupid. The age really doesn't matter and the info to the dispatcher was "it could be a toy gun".
3) That's not in debate. The grand jury agreed. It's police procedure and really a right of anyone to defend themselves from a perceived threat. Someone reaching into their pants (especially when the police are called because they're brandishing a firearm) without question falls into self defense. CW and USN argued that stats show that blacks way over represent criminal behavior and so it's rational to perceive blacks as more of a threat. I never touched this point. I said stats show that whites are overrepresented in being shot by the cops, which undermines yours and BG's dumb argument that the cop shot him for being black.

[CWHOKIECPA]

You compared a school fight to waving a gun around out in public. Lol. A twelve year old boy should know not to run out in to traffic. He should know that waving a gun around in public is extremely dangerous. Fighting at school? Not as dangerous. And who started the fight?

No, I didn't. Not at all. That's naïve for you to think that's the point I was making. You blamed the parents because they didn't tell the kid not to run around pointing a BB gun at people.

I simply commented on how dumb of a thought process that was for you to blame the parents.

The fact that he was doing something like that leads me to believe that they didn't.

And this is why it's a stupid thought process, you're willing to blame the parents based on nothing other than the speculation that he's never been told to not point a BB gun at people. My parents taught me not to be violent but I got in fights in childhood. But using your logic given that I got in fights in childhood, my parents must have not taught me right and, therefore, my parents are to blame. It's just a stupid line of thought based on such little information.

You keep equating fights with guns. It's stupid of you. That fake gun that he had looked very real. I'm sure a few guys on here shot guns with their Dad's when they were younger. First rule? Don't point the gun at someone. A fight with another kid isn't going to kill you. A fake gun that looks like a real one, just might.

His Dad has been convicted of domestic abuse multiple times. He really wasn't a Dad.