Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

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UpstateSCHokie
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Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
Image

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
oaktonhokie
Posts: 11324
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by oaktonhokie »

Try this ups. I am not generally given to optimism with this administration and the livs who vote for style over substance and for handouts instead of hard work.

The marxxistcare debacle may change things. You mentioned Detroit. Blacks and white libs could always point to white racism as the reason for the problems in Detroit and Oakland, and Newark and .... Bear with me, I know white racism is not the reason for the detroits, but it was an excuse, even if an absurd one.

But now, white libs have to feel the pain of socialism. It's not just the blacks in the ghettos of the detroits who suffer. And white libs will feel the pain previously reserved for the people in the detroits. Until now, white libs could delude themselves duh, that they care. That they were voting to give other people's money to the impoverished blacks in the detroits. The white libs could feel good without doing good.

It didn't affect them.

But now, marxxistcare will come home to white libs. They will, if they're even semi conscious and semi willing to see the truth, that themarxxist lied to them. Yes, to THEM. Like wild bill lied to them, but it didn't affect them. This is different. White libs can feel the pain of the lie in their own wallets. They will try not to, but eventually admit that the Rs are not to blame. Notwithstanding the lies of Debbie wasserman snakehair that the Rs obstructed this and are to blame for its failure

This was supposed to be liberal valhala. Paradise. The ultimate liberal goal of socialized medicine. And unlike the other liberal solutions, this one will affect more than the detroits in the country. It will hurt white bleeding hearts in the cushy suburbs of DC, la and SF.

Once the impact of socialism comes to live with the libs and the livs, they may suffer an uncomfortable and unwanted epiphany.

Socialism doesn't work. And it's not just that it doen't help the detroits, it hurts the gross points as well.

The Rs may have an advantage here. Certainly, they can screw up a one car parade and this could be handled with the usual ham handed, ineptness heretofore unseen beyond the rnc.

We have a chance.


UpstateSCHokie wrote:I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
If you bend over backwards long enough,
eventually you'll fall down.
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USN_Hokie
Posts: 30831
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:58 pm
Party: Draintheswamp

Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by USN_Hokie »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
They won't admit its a failure until they witness it fail. Detroit is, of course, a failure - but they won't realize that until they can't get a frappacinno at starbucks, or the EBT card stops working.
User avatar
UpstateSCHokie
Posts: 11909
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:31 pm

Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

I want to believe ya oak, but someone said it earlier today. Even if the low information crowd wakes up and realizes that democrat/Marxist policies are ruining their lives and the economy, many of them will still buy into the idea that Republicans are still mean, racist, homophobes.

There will always be that portion of the voting public that says "gosh, I really don't like the democrats, Marxism, or Obamacare, but I just can't vote for those racist Republicans." These are usually the single issue type voters that only care about one thing like gay marriage, or more food stamps, or free on demand abortion, or some other inconsequential social issue. And the problem we have is that these people make up the part of the population that is growing (i.e. extremely low information minorities, illegal aliens, and welfare queens).

Conservatives have got to figure out a way to reach these people, and right now, the only way is through pop culure (i.e. MTV, the View, the Daily Show, Honey Boo Boo, and the late night shows). I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope, but we're going to need more than that to overcome the sheer ignorance and arrogance of the low info crowd.
oaktonhokie wrote:Try this ups. I am not generally given to optimism with this administration and the livs who vote for style over substance and for handouts instead of hard work.

The marxxistcare debacle may change things. You mentioned Detroit. Blacks and white libs could always point to white racism as the reason for the problems in Detroit and Oakland, and Newark and .... Bear with me, I know white racism is not the reason for the detroits, but it was an excuse, even if an absurd one.

But now, white libs have to feel the pain of socialism. It's not just the blacks in the ghettos of the detroits who suffer. And white libs will feel the pain previously reserved for the people in the detroits. Until now, white libs could delude themselves duh, that they care. That they were voting to give other people's money to the impoverished blacks in the detroits. The white libs could feel good without doing good.

It didn't affect them.

But now, marxxistcare will come home to white libs. They will, if they're even semi conscious and semi willing to see the truth, that themarxxist lied to them. Yes, to THEM. Like wild bill lied to them, but it didn't affect them. This is different. White libs can feel the pain of the lie in their own wallets. They will try not to, but eventually admit that the Rs are not to blame. Notwithstanding the lies of Debbie wasserman snakehair that the Rs obstructed this and are to blame for its failure

This was supposed to be liberal valhala. Paradise. The ultimate liberal goal of socialized medicine. And unlike the other liberal solutions, this one will affect more than the detroits in the country. It will hurt white bleeding hearts in the cushy suburbs of DC, la and SF.

Once the impact of socialism comes to live with the libs and the livs, they may suffer an uncomfortable and unwanted epiphany.

Socialism doesn't work. And it's not just that it doen't help the detroits, it hurts the gross points as well.

The Rs may have an advantage here. Certainly, they can screw up a one car parade and this could be handled with the usual ham handed, ineptness heretofore unseen beyond the rnc.

We have a chance.


UpstateSCHokie wrote:I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
Image

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
oaktonhokie
Posts: 11324
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by oaktonhokie »

The debacle that is obamacare will not change much by itself. It's only the first step.

The first of many, and we won't live to see the finish.

If we get there at all.

It took 50 years to dumb down the electorate to the point where a marxxist could be elected president. It will take at least that Iong to reverse direction.

UpstateSCHokie wrote:I want to believe ya oak, but someone said it earlier today. Even if the low information crowd wakes up and realizes that democrat/Marxist policies are ruining their lives and the economy, many of them will still buy into the idea that Republicans are still mean, racist, homophobes.

There will always be that portion of the voting public that says "gosh, I really don't like the democrats, Marxism, or Obamacare, but I just can't vote for those racist Republicans." These are usually the single issue type voters that only care about one thing like gay marriage, or more food stamps, or free on demand abortion, or some other inconsequential social issue. And the problem we have is that these people make up the part of the population that is growing (i.e. extremely low information minorities, illegal aliens, and welfare queens).

Conservatives have got to figure out a way to reach these people, and right now, the only way is through pop culure (i.e. MTV, the View, the Daily Show, Honey Boo Boo, and the late night shows). I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope, but we're going to need more than that to overcome the sheer ignorance and arrogance of the low info crowd.
oaktonhokie wrote:Try this ups. I am not generally given to optimism with this administration and the livs who vote for style over substance and for handouts instead of hard work.

The marxxistcare debacle may change things. You mentioned Detroit. Blacks and white libs could always point to white racism as the reason for the problems in Detroit and Oakland, and Newark and .... Bear with me, I know white racism is not the reason for the detroits, but it was an excuse, even if an absurd one.

But now, white libs have to feel the pain of socialism. It's not just the blacks in the ghettos of the detroits who suffer. And white libs will feel the pain previously reserved for the people in the detroits. Until now, white libs could delude themselves duh, that they care. That they were voting to give other people's money to the impoverished blacks in the detroits. The white libs could feel good without doing good.

It didn't affect them.

But now, marxxistcare will come home to white libs. They will, if they're even semi conscious and semi willing to see the truth, that themarxxist lied to them. Yes, to THEM. Like wild bill lied to them, but it didn't affect them. This is different. White libs can feel the pain of the lie in their own wallets. They will try not to, but eventually admit that the Rs are not to blame. Notwithstanding the lies of Debbie wasserman snakehair that the Rs obstructed this and are to blame for its failure

This was supposed to be liberal valhala. Paradise. The ultimate liberal goal of socialized medicine. And unlike the other liberal solutions, this one will affect more than the detroits in the country. It will hurt white bleeding hearts in the cushy suburbs of DC, la and SF.

Once the impact of socialism comes to live with the libs and the livs, they may suffer an uncomfortable and unwanted epiphany.

Socialism doesn't work. And it's not just that it doen't help the detroits, it hurts the gross points as well.

The Rs may have an advantage here. Certainly, they can screw up a one car parade and this could be handled with the usual ham handed, ineptness heretofore unseen beyond the rnc.

We have a chance.


UpstateSCHokie wrote:I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
If you bend over backwards long enough,
eventually you'll fall down.
chuckd4vt
Posts: 1625
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by chuckd4vt »

oaktonhokie wrote:The debacle that is obamacare will not change much by itself. It's only the first step.

The first of many, and we won't live to see the finish.

If we get there at all.

It took 50 years to dumb down the electorate to the point where a marxxist could be elected president. It will take at least that Iong to reverse direction.

UpstateSCHokie wrote:I want to believe ya oak, but someone said it earlier today. Even if the low information crowd wakes up and realizes that democrat/Marxist policies are ruining their lives and the economy, many of them will still buy into the idea that Republicans are still mean, racist, homophobes.

There will always be that portion of the voting public that says "gosh, I really don't like the democrats, Marxism, or Obamacare, but I just can't vote for those racist Republicans." These are usually the single issue type voters that only care about one thing like gay marriage, or more food stamps, or free on demand abortion, or some other inconsequential social issue. And the problem we have is that these people make up the part of the population that is growing (i.e. extremely low information minorities, illegal aliens, and welfare queens).

Conservatives have got to figure out a way to reach these people, and right now, the only way is through pop culure (i.e. MTV, the View, the Daily Show, Honey Boo Boo, and the late night shows). I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope, but we're going to need more than that to overcome the sheer ignorance and arrogance of the low info crowd.
oaktonhokie wrote:Try this ups. I am not generally given to optimism with this administration and the livs who vote for style over substance and for handouts instead of hard work.

The marxxistcare debacle may change things. You mentioned Detroit. Blacks and white libs could always point to white racism as the reason for the problems in Detroit and Oakland, and Newark and .... Bear with me, I know white racism is not the reason for the detroits, but it was an excuse, even if an absurd one.

But now, white libs have to feel the pain of socialism. It's not just the blacks in the ghettos of the detroits who suffer. And white libs will feel the pain previously reserved for the people in the detroits. Until now, white libs could delude themselves duh, that they care. That they were voting to give other people's money to the impoverished blacks in the detroits. The white libs could feel good without doing good.

It didn't affect them.

But now, marxxistcare will come home to white libs. They will, if they're even semi conscious and semi willing to see the truth, that themarxxist lied to them. Yes, to THEM. Like wild bill lied to them, but it didn't affect them. This is different. White libs can feel the pain of the lie in their own wallets. They will try not to, but eventually admit that the Rs are not to blame. Notwithstanding the lies of Debbie wasserman snakehair that the Rs obstructed this and are to blame for its failure

This was supposed to be liberal valhala. Paradise. The ultimate liberal goal of socialized medicine. And unlike the other liberal solutions, this one will affect more than the detroits in the country. It will hurt white bleeding hearts in the cushy suburbs of DC, la and SF.

Once the impact of socialism comes to live with the libs and the livs, they may suffer an uncomfortable and unwanted epiphany.

Socialism doesn't work. And it's not just that it doen't help the detroits, it hurts the gross points as well.

The Rs may have an advantage here. Certainly, they can screw up a one car parade and this could be handled with the usual ham handed, ineptness heretofore unseen beyond the rnc.

We have a chance.


UpstateSCHokie wrote:I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by awesome guy »

chuckd4vt wrote:
oaktonhokie wrote:The debacle that is obamacare will not change much by itself. It's only the first step.

The first of many, and we won't live to see the finish.

If we get there at all.

It took 50 years to dumb down the electorate to the point where a marxxist could be elected president. It will take at least that Iong to reverse direction.

UpstateSCHokie wrote:I want to believe ya oak, but someone said it earlier today. Even if the low information crowd wakes up and realizes that democrat/Marxist policies are ruining their lives and the economy, many of them will still buy into the idea that Republicans are still mean, racist, homophobes.

There will always be that portion of the voting public that says "gosh, I really don't like the democrats, Marxism, or Obamacare, but I just can't vote for those racist Republicans." These are usually the single issue type voters that only care about one thing like gay marriage, or more food stamps, or free on demand abortion, or some other inconsequential social issue. And the problem we have is that these people make up the part of the population that is growing (i.e. extremely low information minorities, illegal aliens, and welfare queens).

Conservatives have got to figure out a way to reach these people, and right now, the only way is through pop culure (i.e. MTV, the View, the Daily Show, Honey Boo Boo, and the late night shows). I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope, but we're going to need more than that to overcome the sheer ignorance and arrogance of the low info crowd.
oaktonhokie wrote:Try this ups. I am not generally given to optimism with this administration and the livs who vote for style over substance and for handouts instead of hard work.

The marxxistcare debacle may change things. You mentioned Detroit. Blacks and white libs could always point to white racism as the reason for the problems in Detroit and Oakland, and Newark and .... Bear with me, I know white racism is not the reason for the detroits, but it was an excuse, even if an absurd one.

But now, white libs have to feel the pain of socialism. It's not just the blacks in the ghettos of the detroits who suffer. And white libs will feel the pain previously reserved for the people in the detroits. Until now, white libs could delude themselves duh, that they care. That they were voting to give other people's money to the impoverished blacks in the detroits. The white libs could feel good without doing good.

It didn't affect them.

But now, marxxistcare will come home to white libs. They will, if they're even semi conscious and semi willing to see the truth, that themarxxist lied to them. Yes, to THEM. Like wild bill lied to them, but it didn't affect them. This is different. White libs can feel the pain of the lie in their own wallets. They will try not to, but eventually admit that the Rs are not to blame. Notwithstanding the lies of Debbie wasserman snakehair that the Rs obstructed this and are to blame for its failure

This was supposed to be liberal valhala. Paradise. The ultimate liberal goal of socialized medicine. And unlike the other liberal solutions, this one will affect more than the detroits in the country. It will hurt white bleeding hearts in the cushy suburbs of DC, la and SF.

Once the impact of socialism comes to live with the libs and the livs, they may suffer an uncomfortable and unwanted epiphany.

Socialism doesn't work. And it's not just that it doen't help the detroits, it hurts the gross points as well.

The Rs may have an advantage here. Certainly, they can screw up a one car parade and this could be handled with the usual ham handed, ineptness heretofore unseen beyond the rnc.

We have a chance.


UpstateSCHokie wrote:I'd like to think that people will one day wake up and realize just how ruinous and destructive liberalism is. But then I look at places like Detroit and Chicago where liberal democrats have run the show for over 50 years, and they keep getting elected, and it really makes me question the voters ability to identify the problem. Detroit just went bankrupt, and yet they just elected another democrat for Mayor. WTF?

I think what we're seeing is that as America gets dumber, it also get bluer. That's why its imperative for democrat policies to continue the dumbing down of America.

===================

Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion
November 5th, 2013 - 9:18 pm

I have no idea if Republicans will end their circular firing squad and unite sufficiently to right our country, but one thing seems abundantly clear from the events of the last weeks, including Tuesday’s election in which Terry McAuliffe barely eked out a victory over the unexciting Ken Cuccinelli. Liberalism in our country is in a more precarious position than ever. It may not even really exist.

Liberalism as practiced in today’s America is a chimera, not actually an ideology but an alliance of interest groups controlled by elites for the preservation of their (the elites’) wealth and power. The interest groups often seem to be working against their own advantage by being so affiliated (e. g. African-Americans are in the worst shape in years under Obama), but not the elites who have been able to thrive. These elites are also able to appear altruistic to themselves and others while behaving in manners that are hideously selfish and atrocious to the common good. Liberalism is not so much an ideology in our society as it is a shield, a defense mechanism for a lifestyle.

This accounts, in part, for all the lying and bumbling in the face of the Obamacare debacle from the president on down to his hapless porte-paroles Jay Carney and Deborah Wasserman-Schultz (who apparently is so flummoxed she cannot pronounce the word “misled”). None of them ever knew what the healthcare legislation was in the first place in anything approximating serious detail. That would have been been too much of a bother when it was just a pose. It was never really about people’s health anyway — it was for show.

Some accuse liberals of being “statists,” but they are actually more confused than that. They don’t know what they think. But it doesn’t matter because they know what they want — power, control, and the wealth that comes along with it. (Does Al Gore believe in cataclysmic global warming anymore in the face of all the contrary evidence? Who knows? But he has to say he does.)

What Republicans are now confronting is an empty machine. Few outside the academy believe in Keynesian economics anymore and the foreign policy of the Obama administration is inscrutable because it is non-existent. The current attempts to negotiate with Iran and to resolve the perpetual Israeli-Palestinian conflict are more of the same sort of illusion, doing something to appear to be doing something. As we used to say of the 1980′s Lakers, “It’s Showtime.” Only the Lakers scored baskets.

But this dumb show quality of liberalism does not mean they will not succeed. The very fact that they have no content may be an asset in these post-modern times. So what if there’s no there there. If you control the levers of power, you disperse the money (to your corporate favorites) and have the glitzy White House parties.

But the public is beginning to wake up to the emptiness (and to their pocket books). They are angry. It is up to the right now not to bobble the ball, not to get lost in internecine rivalries. If this is a libertarian moment, as some are saying, seize it, but seize it in a direct and clear manner. Know what you stand for. One of the reasons Obamaa could never be transparent is he doesn’t. He only stands for power — and he’s transparent enough about that.

More people than ever in my lifetime now want less government (well, maybe except for some people in New York City who just elected that Sandinista-loving bozo de Blasio — they’ll learn when their property values start to tank). It’s up to us now to make it happen. All we have to do is overcome the illusion of liberalism. Since it isn’t there, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/11/ ... epage=true
I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by Tafkam Hokie »

UpstateSCHokie wrote: They won't admit its a failure until they witness it fail. Detroit is, of course, a failure - but they won't realize that until they can't get a frappacinno at starbucks, or the EBT card stops working.
Will they even admit it then? Detroit is in bankruptcy and the reports I see are about Detroiters fighting over whether to sell the city's art collection and angsting over whether their pensions and retiree health care will still be paid for.

The city is BANKRUPT. ALL of its obligations are on the table, as are ALL of its assets. That is how bankruptcy works.

Liberalism/socialism has many laudable goals. Heck, I tend to agree with a lot of the things they fight for, at least on the conceptual level. The problem with liberalism/socialism is it has no frickin clue how to actually pay for anything they want.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by Florida Hokie »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope,
Hope for what?
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by chuckd4vt »

Florida Hokie wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope,
Hope for what?
Hope for a redneck utopia in which ignorance and lack of an education are considered praise worthy. I listen to country music myself sometimes, but it's not the deepest stuff in the world.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by Florida Hokie »

Real country music is as deep as anything. It's on par with soul music.

Duck Dynasty guys are fine - and they are educated. I don't see anything wrong with the show but I don't see it as some sign of things going well either.
chuckd4vt wrote:
Florida Hokie wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:I will say that shows like Duck Dynasty and the CMT music awards give me some hope,
Hope for what?
Hope for a redneck utopia in which ignorance and lack of an education are considered praise worthy. I listen to country music myself sometimes, but it's not the deepest stuff in the world.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by RiverguyVT »

chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
{anti-market-driven healthcare argument} Yeah. They're great. But only if you can afford them {/Lib talking point}
for the unwashed, those are some damn near impossible places to live.
So yeah; all those self-loathing PhD'd electrical engineers in SF have it pretty good. The grocery store bagboy comes in from Oakland.
Liberalism is NEVER the solution to ANY social ill. It just isn't.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by RiverguyVT »

oaktonhokie wrote:The debacle that is obamacare will not change much by itself. It's only the first step.

The first of many, and we won't live to see the finish.

If we get there at all.

It took 50 years to dumb down the electorate to the point where a marxxist could be elected president. It will take at least that Iong to reverse direction.
It is irreversible.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by ip_law-hokie »

Those places are "incredible expensive" due to demand. Places with low cost of living are cheap because not as many people want to live there.

Or is this like the "librul media" where supply and demand doesnt apply because it doesn't fit your narrative?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by Marine Hokie »

Not always, since we're not talking about a free market.
San Francisco has close to the highest cost of living in the country, yet has relatively low migration.
On the other hand, the Triangle area in NC has a low cost of living and a massive influx of people.
ip_law-hokie wrote:Those places are "incredible expensive" due to demand. Places with low cost of living are cheap because not as many people want to live there.

Or is this like the "librul media" where supply and demand doesnt apply because it doesn't fit your narrative?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by ip_law-hokie »

People aren't free to live where they choose? It's supply and demand.

And the Triangle area is not really a city. Just a bunch of subdivisions and interstates. No culture.
Marine Hokie wrote:Not always, since we're not talking about a free market.
San Francisco has close to the highest cost of living in the country, yet has relatively low migration.
On the other hand, the Triangle area in NC has a low cost of living and a massive influx of people.
ip_law-hokie wrote:Those places are "incredible expensive" due to demand. Places with low cost of living are cheap because not as many people want to live there.

Or is this like the "librul media" where supply and demand doesnt apply because it doesn't fit your narrative?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by Marine Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:People aren't free to live where they choose? It's supply and demand.
People being able to move isn't the only thing that influences cost of living.

ip_law-hokie wrote:And the Triangle area is not really a city. Just a bunch of subdivisions and interstates. No culture.
Not having one single city government doesn't mean there isn't a culture.
Marine Hokie wrote:Not always, since we're not talking about a free market.
San Francisco has close to the highest cost of living in the country, yet has relatively low migration.
On the other hand, the Triangle area in NC has a low cost of living and a massive influx of people.
ip_law-hokie wrote:Those places are "incredible expensive" due to demand. Places with low cost of living are cheap because not as many people want to live there.

Or is this like the "librul media" where supply and demand doesnt apply because it doesn't fit your narrative?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by RoswellGAHokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:Those places are "incredible expensive" due to demand. Places with low cost of living are cheap because not as many people want to live there.

Or is this like the "librul media" where supply and demand doesnt apply because it doesn't fit your narrative?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
Not really IP. They're expensive in part because restrictive zoning laws and other regs designed to hamper residential construction are artificially reducing supply. If your theory were correct, population in those cities would be growing by leaps and bounds. They're not.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by chuckd4vt »

Come on. It does come down to more people wanting to live in progressive cities than in conservative rural areas. Again, why is Detroit considered the hot bed of liberalism? Practically all of the major cities in America went blue in 2012. And the overwhelming majority of those cities are thriving. There may be a few exceptions, Detroit? New Orleans? Baltimore?, but most of our urban areas are doing quite well. Here in Atlanta, they've experienced unprecedented growth in recent decades as people flock in from their conservative rural hometowns in search of better more progressive urban living. Even look to SWVA, where counties like Pulaski are going to crap while Montgomery county, where people are better educated and much more liberal than persons in surrounding counties, is doing well. Anyhow, nearly any objective person would consider San Fran or Seattle to be much more liberal than Detroit, and both are considered some of the best places to live on earth.
Last edited by chuckd4vt on Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ip_law-hokie
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by ip_law-hokie »

I disagree.
RoswellGAHokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:Those places are "incredible expensive" due to demand. Places with low cost of living are cheap because not as many people want to live there.

Or is this like the "librul media" where supply and demand doesnt apply because it doesn't fit your narrative?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote: I love how you all point to Detroit as the most liberal of cities. That's ridiculous considering the most liberal of cities are generally considered some of the best places to live on Earth. San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, even places like Minneapolis and Boston are incredibly liberal and thriving.
You speak with forked tongue Chuck. San Diego is conservative. Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, etc are liberal utopias that are besieged with crime and or massive debt.
Not to mention that the liberal cities he listed as "some of the best places to live on Earth" are incredible expensive! Those cities are a virtual no man's land for the middle class. If you live in those cities, you are likely either very rich or very poor. There's not much in between. Which is why I either LOL or shake my head in disbelief when I hear democrats say they are the champions of the middle class.

When you look at the places where their policies have been implemented, you either have high crime + high corruption + high poverty, or you have the largest gap between the haves and have nots.
Not really IP. They're expensive in part because restrictive zoning laws and other regs designed to hamper residential construction are artificially reducing supply. If your theory were correct, population in those cities would be growing by leaps and bounds. They're not.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by RiverguyVT »

ip_law-hokie wrote:I disagree.
The root of this board.
Cause/effect.... and disagreements.

Let's see what happens to non-union employment in Seatac. Same coin, flip side.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by chuckd4vt »

The only reasons they aren't growing is due to the rise in real estate. There's only so many places to live in San Fran and it seems to me that the San Fran area has basically spread out into San Jose and places like that. Point being, millions of more people would rather pay twice the rent to live within an hour of San Francisco than to live in any of the conservative hotbeds like Mississippi or Alabama.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by ip_law-hokie »

chuckd4vt wrote:The only reasons they aren't growing is due to the rise in real estate. There's only so many places to live in San Fran and it seems to me that the San Fran area has basically spread out into San Jose and places like that. Point being, millions of more people would rather pay twice the rent to live within an hour of San Francisco than to live in any of the conservative hotbeds like Mississippi or Alabama.
Basic supply and demand doesn't apply when it doesn't align with pre-conceived narratives, apparently.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: Liberalism, the Decline of an Illusion

Post by 133743Hokie »

chuckd4vt wrote:Come on. It does come down to more people wanting to live in progressive cities than in conservative rural areas. Again, why is Detroit considered the hot bed of liberalism? Practically all of the major cities in America went blue in 2012. And the overwhelming majority of those cities are thriving. There may be a few exceptions, Detroit? New Orleans? Baltimore?, but most of our urban areas are doing quite well. Here in Atlanta, they've experienced unprecedented growth in recent decades as people flock in from their conservative rural hometowns in search of better more progressive urban living. Even look to SWVA, where counties like Pulaski are going to crap while Montgomery county, where people are better educated and much more liberal than persons in surrounding counties, is doing well. Anyhow, nearly any objective person would consider San Fran or Seattle to be much more liberal than Detroit, and both are considered some of the best places to live on earth.
The only growth in ATL is suburban
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