Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

[HokieJoe]

what has obamacare done beside raise the costs?

It has allowed a lot of people who couldn't previously afford it to purchase health insurance. I know this doesn't matter to you though.

Actually you could go purchase it before same as you can now, the subsidies are what the taxpayers were paying before in our health rates so now we have continually rising rates and our tax dollars going to the cost also. Have you noticed all the insurance companies that are quickly exiting the exchanges....so where are all these folks going to get insurance from?

or you can go to a job that has health insurance as part of your pay even if the employee has to pay a share of it

Obamacare is over. Trumpcare may lower our premiums. I'm looking forward to all the additional cash money.

It's going to be the yugest, bestest insurance ever.

Better, cheaper, universal.


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Better and universal are mutually exclusive in terms of providing health care.

[ip_law-hokie]

It has allowed a lot of people who couldn't previously afford it to purchase health insurance. I know this doesn't matter to you though.

Actually you could go purchase it before same as you can now, the subsidies are what the taxpayers were paying before in our health rates so now we have continually rising rates and our tax dollars going to the cost also. Have you noticed all the insurance companies that are quickly exiting the exchanges....so where are all these folks going to get insurance from?

or you can go to a job that has health insurance as part of your pay even if the employee has to pay a share of it

Obamacare is over. Trumpcare may lower our premiums. I'm looking forward to all the additional cash money.

It's going to be the yugest, bestest insurance ever.

Better, cheaper, universal.


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Better and universal are mutually exclusive in terms of providing health care.

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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[HokieHam]

what has obamacare done beside raise the costs?

It has allowed a lot of people who couldn't previously afford it to purchase health insurance. I know this doesn't matter to you though.

You're damn right it doesn't matter, because it ruined even more people's health insurance and caused those of us who paid increases to pay for it. Typical Dem redistribution plan.......

[HokieHam]

It's funny to watch the lefty's on here acting like 0fuknutzcare actuallly did anything but totally fail......like the majority of their policies.

Now, the Pubs plan is almost just as dumb. I hope Rand Paul and others shoot it down. It just goes to show the leadership and majority of Pubs are just Dumbs lite.......

[ip_law-hokie]

It's funny to watch the lefty's on here acting like 0fuknutzcare actuallly did anything but totally fail......like the majority of their policies.

Now, the Pubs plan is almost just as dumb. I hope Rand Paul and others shoot it down. It just goes to show the leadership and majority of Pubs are just Dumbs lite.......

When are we getting the beautiful plan? Does Trump need to go down to Capitol Hill himself and get this done?

[USN_Hokie]

what has obamacare done beside raise the costs?

It has allowed a lot of people who couldn't previously afford it to purchase health insurance. I know this doesn't matter to you though.

You mean gave free health insurance to lower middle class people, right?

Government doesn't give anything to anyone with out taking it from someone else first. What is ethical/moral about theft?

[HokieHam]

Trump and GOP Fail: ‘Obamacare Repeal/Replace’

It does not repeal the “penalty.” It instead moves it to the back end; if you don’t have insurance (by choice) and then buy it, you get hammered with a 30% penalty for a year. For most people that’s far more than the ACA penalty for not having insurance — it could easily be $3,000 or more! This is outright fraud on the part of the GOP which said it was repealing the penalty. Paul Ryan, Donald Trump and the rest are all ****ing liars.
Medicaid expansion is essentially ended and cost-pickup for the states is capped to CPI-U’s medical expenditures inflation index on a forward basis. This will detonate State budgets within about 10 years as the current spend is expanding at ~9% a year but the CPI-U index is less than half that.
It does not repeal the prohibition on discrimination in price (or denial) for pre-existing conditions, but it does increase the multiplier for age to 5 (from 3.)
IT IS NOT A REPEAL OF THE ACA — not even close. The vast majority of the ACA remains intact. The “mandate” is gone but the penalty remains, just shifted to the back side and for many will be far worse than the penalty would have been. The restriction on what plans you can sell is gone, subsidies are cut, indexed only to age and paid to HSAs instead of directly to insurers. It does repeal many of the “add-on” taxes that paid for the program previously as well.

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017 ... alreplace/

[HokieHam]

It's funny to watch the lefty's on here acting like 0fuknutzcare actuallly did anything but totally fail......like the majority of their policies.

Now, the Pubs plan is almost just as dumb. I hope Rand Paul and others shoot it down. It just goes to show the leadership and majority of Pubs are just Dumbs lite.......

When are we getting the beautiful plan? Does Trump need to go down to Capitol Hill himself and get this done?

If he is the man he is supposed to be, he would. He'd sit little Ryan down and say, "His is what I want.....now get your punk ass busy"

Like I said, I'm hoping Rand takes this by he horns legislatively.

[VisorBoy]

what has obamacare done beside raise the costs?

It has allowed a lot of people who couldn't previously afford it to purchase health insurance. I know this doesn't matter to you though.

You mean gave free health insurance to lower middle class people, right?

Government doesn't give anything to anyone with out taking it from someone else first. What is ethical/moral about theft?

The issue is far deeper than that because it opens up the fundamental question of the right of a state to impose taxes, to support the general welfare, social contract theory, etc.

You have quite an uphill climb of persuasion if you wish to overcome 250 years of American political theory, not to mention another 100 of European.

[ip_law-hokie]

It's funny to watch the lefty's on here acting like 0fuknutzcare actuallly did anything but totally fail......like the majority of their policies.

Now, the Pubs plan is almost just as dumb. I hope Rand Paul and others shoot it down. It just goes to show the leadership and majority of Pubs are just Dumbs lite.......

When are we getting the beautiful plan? Does Trump need to go down to Capitol Hill himself and get this done?

If he is the man he is supposed to be, he would. He'd sit little Ryan down and say, "His is what I want.....now get your punk ass busy"

Like I said, I'm hoping Rand takes this by he horns legislatively.

Let me know when you get to single payer, because you are wasting your time until we get there. And we will get there.


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[HokieHam]

It's funny to watch the lefty's on here acting like 0fuknutzcare actuallly did anything but totally fail......like the majority of their policies.

Now, the Pubs plan is almost just as dumb. I hope Rand Paul and others shoot it down. It just goes to show the leadership and majority of Pubs are just Dumbs lite.......

When are we getting the beautiful plan? Does Trump need to go down to Capitol Hill himself and get this done?

If he is the man he is supposed to be, he would. He'd sit little Ryan down and say, "His is what I want.....now get your punk ass busy"

Like I said, I'm hoping Rand takes this by he horns legislatively.

Let me know when you get to single payer, because you are wasting your time until we get there. And we will get there.


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It's what you former Republicans want.......LOL

[HokieJoe]

what has obamacare done beside raise the costs?

It has allowed a lot of people who couldn't previously afford it to purchase health insurance. I know this doesn't matter to you though.

You mean gave free health insurance to lower middle class people, right?

Government doesn't give anything to anyone with out taking it from someone else first. What is ethical/moral about theft?

The issue is far deeper than that because it opens up the fundamental question of the right of a state to impose taxes, to support the general welfare, social contract theory, etc.

You have quite an uphill climb of persuasion if you wish to overcome 250 years of American political theory, not to mention another 100 of European.

250 years ago American political theory didn't have anything to do with socialist dogma. I don't live or pay taxes in Europe, so I couldn't care less what they do unless it affects my wallet.

[HokieJoe]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

[cwtcr hokie]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight

[HokieHam]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight

Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......

[HokieFanDC]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight

Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......

With our current cost structure, there is no viable solution that gives everyone, or even almost everyone, top quality healthcare. IMO, if we're going to pay for healthcare for the masses, that healthcare is going to be a basic level, and people can pay more for premium healthcare. That base level can be decent, but has to be below the current ACA plans. But, the starting point has to be reducing costs. It's unsustainable in any format at the current cost basis.

[cwtcr hokie]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight

Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......

With our current cost structure, there is no viable solution that gives everyone, or even almost everyone, top quality healthcare. IMO, if we're going to pay for healthcare for the masses, that healthcare is going to be a basic level, and people can pay more for premium healthcare. That base level can be decent, but has to be below the current ACA plans. But, the starting point has to be reducing costs. It's unsustainable in any format at the current cost basis.

and in reality the only way costs reduce is don't try to save everyone and the public gets healthier....and we know that is not happening

[Cpt Jagdish]

Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.

[awesome guy]

Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.

See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.

[VisorBoy]

Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.

See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.

Cost controls are difficult under the structure of health insurance and health care in this country. Part of it is because health care insurance covers everything and part of it is because health care, the product, is very expensive.

The expense of the product is due to:
- Reliable, high demand for health care. Everyone gets old or sick.
- Everyone wants the highest quality of health care (obviously). Different from wanting the best car or best food, as without the best health care available, oftentimes the alternative is suffering or worse.
- Barrier to entry for service providers is very high, so the supply of providers is low. 4 years of med school + 4 years of residency (+4 more for specialists), not to mention the inherent difficulty of the subject matter.
- Consistent investment in research/development for drug companies and hospital technology.
- Consistent investment in capital expenditures for hospitals and doctors.

So before we even get to the insurance question, we have a very expensive product. The insurance question has its own issues, but it won't undercut the fact that insurance companies themselves are charged a lot for the services provided to their clients.

[ip_law-hokie]

Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.

See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.

Correct. The answer is single payer.


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[HokieJoe]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight

Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......

With our current cost structure, there is no viable solution that gives everyone, or even almost everyone, top quality healthcare. IMO, if we're going to pay for healthcare for the masses, that healthcare is going to be a basic level, and people can pay more for premium healthcare. That base level can be decent, but has to be below the current ACA plans. But, the starting point has to be reducing costs. It's unsustainable in any format at the current cost basis.

Agree. Quality of care must be latched to how much you pay. People who don't pay a dime into the system do not deserve equal standing with people who do pay into the system. It's arguable that such people are deserving of nothing.

[HokieJoe]

Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.

See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.

Correct. The answer is single payer.


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If you want single payer then move to Canuckistan or those wannabe 3rd world dumps in Europe.

[Mcl3 Hokie]

So how's single payer working out for the U.K.? It stinks, and they'll tell you that.

Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.

See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.

Correct. The answer is single payer.


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[VisorBoy]

Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.

correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight

Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......

With our current cost structure, there is no viable solution that gives everyone, or even almost everyone, top quality healthcare. IMO, if we're going to pay for healthcare for the masses, that healthcare is going to be a basic level, and people can pay more for premium healthcare. That base level can be decent, but has to be below the current ACA plans. But, the starting point has to be reducing costs. It's unsustainable in any format at the current cost basis.

Hah! Hadn't read this post before posting myself. Same point I tried to make.

The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"