Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by HokieJoe »

VisorBoy wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
Not according to Trump. He's going to obtain savings on the other side due to his negotiation skills. Obozo was doing it all wrong.


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The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.
correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight
Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......
With our current cost structure, there is no viable solution that gives everyone, or even almost everyone, top quality healthcare. IMO, if we're going to pay for healthcare for the masses, that healthcare is going to be a basic level, and people can pay more for premium healthcare. That base level can be decent, but has to be below the current ACA plans. But, the starting point has to be reducing costs. It's unsustainable in any format at the current cost basis.
Hah! Hadn't read this post before posting myself. Same point I tried to make.

The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"

Bill Gates can buy better healthcare than I can. Big deal. I have relatives who have paid into Medicaid since it's inception. And yet, they get the same level of service that a crack/meth whore with 3 kids and no job. That is fundamentally unfair to people who did pay into the system.
"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by ip_law-hokie »

HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.
See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.
Correct. The answer is single payer.


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If you want single payer then move to Canuckistan or those wannabe 3rd world dumps in Europe.
Silly post.


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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by ip_law-hokie »

Mcl3 Hokie wrote:So how's single payer working out for the U.K.? It stinks, and they'll tell you that.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.
See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.
Correct. The answer is single payer.


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Nope.


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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by Mcl3 Hokie »

What's your evidence? I run a business in Manchester with 58 people. They hate it. It's a common complaint every trip over there.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:So how's single payer working out for the U.K.? It stinks, and they'll tell you that.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.
See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.
Correct. The answer is single payer.


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Nope.


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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by USN_Hokie »

VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by Mcl3 Hokie »

Correct. If you don't have private health care in the U.K., good luck.
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by HokieJoe »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.
See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.
Correct. The answer is single payer.


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If you want single payer then move to Canuckistan or those wannabe 3rd world dumps in Europe.
Silly post.


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You already have a passport. You can still post on UWS ip, so go ahead and live life to the fullest!
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by USN_Hokie »

Mcl3 Hokie wrote:Correct. If you don't have private health care in the U.K., good luck.
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
While we're at it, I'd like Visor to reconcile his belief in universal healthcare with his support of unlimited immigration.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by ip_law-hokie »

Mcl3 Hokie wrote:What's your evidence? I run a business in Manchester with 58 people. They hate it. It's a common complaint every trip over there.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:So how's single payer working out for the U.K.? It stinks, and they'll tell you that.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.
See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.
Correct. The answer is single payer.


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Nope.


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The cost per patient.


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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by awesome guy »

HokieJoe wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote: The current bill likely won't make it out of either house.
correct, this stuff is not going to be fixed overnight
Nope. Just another disaster wrought on us by those who know what's best for us.......
With our current cost structure, there is no viable solution that gives everyone, or even almost everyone, top quality healthcare. IMO, if we're going to pay for healthcare for the masses, that healthcare is going to be a basic level, and people can pay more for premium healthcare. That base level can be decent, but has to be below the current ACA plans. But, the starting point has to be reducing costs. It's unsustainable in any format at the current cost basis.
Hah! Hadn't read this post before posting myself. Same point I tried to make.

The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"

Bill Gates can buy better healthcare than I can. Big deal. I have relatives who have paid into Medicaid since it's inception. And yet, they get the same level of service that a crack/meth whore with 3 kids and no job. That is fundamentally unfair to people who did pay into the system.
Yep
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by nolanvt »

Going to scan through this thread and see how The Usuals are taking to Diet Obamacare.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by awesome guy »

nolanvt wrote:Going to scan through this thread and see how The Usuals are taking to Diet Obamacare.
I'm guessing you walk away with 15% comprehension of the points, a step up from your normal score.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by nolanvt »

awesome guy wrote:
nolanvt wrote:Going to scan through this thread and see how The Usuals are taking to Diet Obamacare.
I'm guessing you walk away with 15% comprehension of the points, a step up from your normal score.
Pleasantly surprised to see some pushback from this marvelous, fantastic plan that many people are saying is great.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by awesome guy »

nolanvt wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
nolanvt wrote:Going to scan through this thread and see how The Usuals are taking to Diet Obamacare.
I'm guessing you walk away with 15% comprehension of the points, a step up from your normal score.
Pleasantly surprised to see some pushback from this marvelous, fantastic plan that many people are saying is great.

If 2 people argue on the internet and no one is around to see it, is Nolan still confused as to what was said?
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by ip_law-hokie »

nolanvt wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
nolanvt wrote:Going to scan through this thread and see how The Usuals are taking to Diet Obamacare.
I'm guessing you walk away with 15% comprehension of the points, a step up from your normal score.
Pleasantly surprised to see some pushback from this marvelous, fantastic plan that many people are saying is great.
This is Ryan care. Trump is going to Capitol Hill to kick some ass and make the plan beautiful. Be patient.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by Cpt Jagdish »

USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by awesome guy »

Cpt Jagdish wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.
Their life is not worth less, but the rich person has the means to afford better care. If the rich man wants to pay for the poor then it's their choice via charity and not confiscation via the government.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by USN_Hokie »

Cpt Jagdish wrote:
Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.
Your comment is only relevant in the context of health insurance being a right. Even if we accept that premise for the sake of argument, it fails its own test because it demands services from others. Are doctor and nurses lives worth less that they should be compelled to provide services for fees set not by what their time, skill, and training is worth, but by what bureaucrats think they should?

A "right" cannot demand others' rights be violated.

Back to your premise - I think it's a corruption of the argument at hand. Nobody is denied service at an ER - in fact I think it's the policy at most (all?) Hospitals to provide service (emergency or not) regardless of ability to pay.

One more point: in the UK doctors are paid shirt. As a result, they have to import their doctors from places like India. England's best and brightest come to the US to practice because it makes no sense to rack up huge student loans only to be limited in what you can earn in the UK.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by cwtcr hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Is it fair for someone to believe that the only solutions to healthcare in this country is one of two:

A) Universal health care. We all pay for it, there's no way around it. As far as support, you have to believe in the concept of everyone having basic universal healthcare regardless of socioeconomic status or how they take care of themselves.

or

B) Open free market, with enough competition this should in theory drive down costs for what YOU are willing to pay for. And as far as supporting this, you have to be okay with that not everyone should or even deserves healthcare at the cost of others.

Is that way too simplistic of a view? Because that's how I see it and all the options that this government has tried (Obamacare, Republicare or Trumpcare or whatever we end up calling this option) has tried to appease both camps and it's just no way possible.
See Obamacare. That's why an tweener solution doesn't work. It can't control costs like a free market and is too burdensome like single payer.
Correct. The answer is single payer.


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yes, it works soooo well in the UK for example
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by USN_Hokie »

awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.
Their life is not worth less, but the rich person has the means to afford better care. If the rich man wants to pay for the poor then it's their choice via charity and not confiscation via the government.
Liberals always conflate (sometimes on purpose) opportunity with outcome.

We live in a great country. FloHo can go get butt implants at the same doctor Kim Kardashian used, if he wants to.
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.
Their life is not worth less, but the rich person has the means to afford better care. If the rich man wants to pay for the poor then it's their choice via charity and not confiscation via the government.
Liberals always conflate (sometimes on purpose) opportunity with outcome.

We live in a great country. FloHo can go get butt implants at the same doctor Kim Kardashian used, if he wants to.
Trump coming home.

Close Trump friend says ditch Paul Ryan's plan and embrace universal health care - Vox
https://apple.news/AN6OlpO1kSx6j_KG2nHD1ng


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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by HokieHam »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.
Their life is not worth less, but the rich person has the means to afford better care. If the rich man wants to pay for the poor then it's their choice via charity and not confiscation via the government.
Liberals always conflate (sometimes on purpose) opportunity with outcome.

We live in a great country. FloHo can go get butt implants at the same doctor Kim Kardashian used, if he wants to.
Trump coming home.

Close Trump friend says ditch Paul Ryan's plan and embrace universal health care - Vox
https://apple.news/AN6OlpO1kSx6j_KG2nHD1ng


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VOX?...... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote: The question becomes, "how much health care coverage do we require insurance to provide (or else how much health care that hospitals provide) for those who cannot afford the best?" It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?"
WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.
I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.
Their life is not worth less, but the rich person has the means to afford better care. If the rich man wants to pay for the poor then it's their choice via charity and not confiscation via the government.
Liberals always conflate (sometimes on purpose) opportunity with outcome.

We live in a great country. FloHo can go get butt implants at the same doctor Kim Kardashian used, if he wants to.
Trump coming home.

Close Trump friend says ditch Paul Ryan's plan and embrace universal health care - Vox
https://apple.news/AN6OlpO1kSx6j_KG2nHD1ng


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LOL... Vox
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ip_law-hokie
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
Alma Mater: Manchester
Location: New York, NY

Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by ip_law-hokie »

WADR, your argument is laughable to anyone living in a country with single payer. In the UK, 99% of people have the same shirty Healthcare and the top 1% either have boutique health care....or come to the US.[/quote]

I'm sorry, I don't understand? Maybe I'm not arguing against/for the same point you're trying to make.

Is this statement not true, "It ultimately comes down to, "Is someone's life worth less if they make less?" I feel like what that this question is what this whole debate is about. And I can empathize with both sides but don't have to necessarily agree.

At least HokieJoe has come right out and said it but I guess most politicians won't?

That's why I don't know if we'll ever come to a good solution unless we go all-in on one side or the other.[/quote]
Their life is not worth less, but the rich person has the means to afford better care. If the rich man wants to pay for the poor then it's their choice via charity and not confiscation via the government.[/quote]

Liberals always conflate (sometimes on purpose) opportunity with outcome.

We live in a great country. FloHo can go get butt implants at the same doctor Kim Kardashian used, if he wants to.[/quote]

Trump coming home.

Close Trump friend says ditch Paul Ryan's plan and embrace universal health care - Vox
https://apple.news/AN6OlpO1kSx6j_KG2nHD1ng


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

LOL... Vox[/quote]

Trumpcare is going to be beautiful, whatever form it takes. When does it drop?
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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HooFighter
Posts: 4290
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:16 pm
Party: all the time

Re: Obamacare repeal/replace bill posted (link)

Post by HooFighter »

ip_law-hokie wrote:Trumpcare is going to be beautiful, whatever form it takes. When does it drop?
It's already here, working its beautiful magic for all the people who were smart enough to vote for him.


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Donald Trump is a stupid man's idea of a smart man, a poor man's idea of a rich man, and a weak man's idea of a strong man.
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