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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:50 pm 
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The plot thickens. As has been said, the only crime that we know for sure has been committed is the surveillance of a private US citizen, and then have his name and the transcript of his conversation leaked to the MSM(D).

=============================================

Nunes: Trump transition members were under surveillance during Obama administration
By Austin Wright
Updated 03/22/17 02:36 PM EDT

Members of the Donald Trump transition team, possibly including Trump himself, were under U.S. government surveillance following November’s presidential election, House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) told reporters Wednesday.

Nunes said the surveillance appeared to be legal but that he was concerned because it was not related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s meddling in the election and was widely disseminated across the intelligence community.

“I have seen intelligence reports that clearly show that the president-elect and his team were, I guess, at least monitored,” Nunes told reporters. “It looks to me like it was all legally collected, but it was essentially a lot of information on the president-elect and his transition team and what they were doing.”

Nunes said he is heading to the White House later Wednesday to brief Trump on what he has learned, which he said came from “sources who thought that we should know it.” He said he was trying to get more information by Friday from the FBI, CIA and NSA.

Nunes described the surveillance as most likely being “incidental collection.” This can occur when a person inside the United States communicates with a foreign target of U.S. surveillance. In such cases, the identities of U.S. citizens are supposed to be kept secret — but can be “unmasked” by intelligence officials under certain circumstances.

Nunes said his new information appears to show that additional members of the Trump transition team — beyond former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — were unmasked. This means they were identified in U.S. intelligence reports.

He said the information that he had seen and was disseminated across the intelligence community appeared to him to have "little or no apparent intelligence value."

He also said he did not know yet whether the Trump transition team members who were unmasked were communicating from Trump Tower. Earlier this month, Trump claimed in a series of Tweets that former President Barack Obama ordered a wiretap of the phones at Trump Tower — something Nunes reiterated on Wednesday he had no evidence of.

Nunes said he briefed House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on the information on Wednesday morning.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer read from Nunes' statement during his opening remarks at a press briefing Wednesday, showing how eager Trump's team was to amplify the remarks.

Rep. Adam Schiff of California, Nunes’ Democratic counterpart on the intelligence panel, was not informed of the news ahead of Nunes’ press conference on Wednesday, according to a Schiff spokesman.

The Intelligence panel is set to hold a public hearing next Tuesday with members of the Obama administration, including former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, former CIA Director John Brennan and former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, who was fired by Trump in January after refusing to defend his first travel ban executive order in court.

They are almost certain to face questions on the matter.

FBI Director James Comey appeared before the panel on Monday and confirmed that the FBI launched a counterintelligence investigation in July into Russia’s election meddling, including possible coordination with the Trump campaign.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/d ... ama-236366

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Chicago machine politics at work

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:20 pm 
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UpstateSCHokie wrote:
The plot thickens. As has been said, the only crime that we know for sure has been committed is the surveillance of a private US citizen, and then have his name and the transcript of his conversation leaked to the MSM(D).

=============================================

Nunes: Trump transition members were under surveillance during Obama administration
By Austin Wright
Updated 03/22/17 02:36 PM EDT

Members of the Donald Trump transition team, possibly including Trump himself, were under U.S. government surveillance following November’s presidential election, House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) told reporters Wednesday.

Nunes said the surveillance appeared to be legal but that he was concerned because it was not related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s meddling in the election and was widely disseminated across the intelligence community.

“I have seen intelligence reports that clearly show that the president-elect and his team were, I guess, at least monitored,” Nunes told reporters. “It looks to me like it was all legally collected, but it was essentially a lot of information on the president-elect and his transition team and what they were doing.”

Nunes said he is heading to the White House later Wednesday to brief Trump on what he has learned, which he said came from “sources who thought that we should know it.” He said he was trying to get more information by Friday from the FBI, CIA and NSA.

Nunes described the surveillance as most likely being “incidental collection.” This can occur when a person inside the United States communicates with a foreign target of U.S. surveillance. In such cases, the identities of U.S. citizens are supposed to be kept secret — but can be “unmasked” by intelligence officials under certain circumstances.

Nunes said his new information appears to show that additional members of the Trump transition team — beyond former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — were unmasked. This means they were identified in U.S. intelligence reports.

He said the information that he had seen and was disseminated across the intelligence community appeared to him to have "little or no apparent intelligence value."

He also said he did not know yet whether the Trump transition team members who were unmasked were communicating from Trump Tower. Earlier this month, Trump claimed in a series of Tweets that former President Barack Obama ordered a wiretap of the phones at Trump Tower — something Nunes reiterated on Wednesday he had no evidence of.

Nunes said he briefed House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on the information on Wednesday morning.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer read from Nunes' statement during his opening remarks at a press briefing Wednesday, showing how eager Trump's team was to amplify the remarks.

Rep. Adam Schiff of California, Nunes’ Democratic counterpart on the intelligence panel, was not informed of the news ahead of Nunes’ press conference on Wednesday, according to a Schiff spokesman.

The Intelligence panel is set to hold a public hearing next Tuesday with members of the Obama administration, including former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, former CIA Director John Brennan and former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, who was fired by Trump in January after refusing to defend his first travel ban executive order in court.

They are almost certain to face questions on the matter.

FBI Director James Comey appeared before the panel on Monday and confirmed that the FBI launched a counterintelligence investigation in July into Russia’s election meddling, including possible coordination with the Trump campaign.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/d ... ama-236366



If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:27 pm 
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But Coney said no one was under surveillance. Which is it?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:08 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
But Coney said no one was under surveillance. Which is it?


He said none of Trump's campaign folks were under surveillance.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:50 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:20 pm 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody


All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.

Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:37 pm 
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It is really getting funny watching the lying Dems, twisting and turning.....If you like your incidental surveillance, you can keep your....................

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:43 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody


All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.

Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.


I disagree, Flynn and any US citizen are required to be masked if it's an incidental intercept under FISA. Apparently, there are two problems, leaking the info publicly and the unmasking of American Citizens in these "incidental" intercepts.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Attila T Hun wrote:
It is really getting funny watching the lying Dems, twisting and turning.....If you like your incidental surveillance, you can keep your....................


Setting aside your "Dem" characterization, using the correct definition of words is not lying. In this case, it is the Trumpsters that are twisting, turning, and lying. Or, quite possibly, just choosing to remain ignorant.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Homebrew wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody


All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.

Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.


I disagree, Flynn and any US citizen are required to be masked if it's an incidental intercept under FISA. Apparently, there are two problems, leaking the info publicly and the unmasking of American Citizens in these "incidental" intercepts.


There is an exception to the masking requirements. In the case of Flynn, knowing that the communication is with Flynn vs. unknown US Person 1, provides meaningful context to the communication, and changes the weight of the communication.

There is not an exception to the leak, that is clearly a problem, and a big one.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:02 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody


All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.

Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.


I'm now seeing it reported elsewhere that (some of?) the data collected may have been incidental. I'll reserve judgment until I have a chance to hear what he said instead of chopped up quotes.

As for the minimizing exemptions you're speaking of, the legality of that conflicts with the statement of how widely distributed it was which would have required downgrading the classification.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Homebrew wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody


All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.

Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.


I disagree, Flynn and any US citizen are required to be masked if it's an incidental intercept under FISA. Apparently, there are two problems, leaking the info publicly and the unmasking of American Citizens in these "incidental" intercepts.


There's an exemption if it's pertinent to the information being gleaned, but the information then has very restricted access....ie, it shouldn't be passed around between agencies willy nilly.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:12 pm 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.


That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebody


All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.

Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.


I'm now seeing it reported elsewhere that (some of?) the data collected may have been incidental. I'll reserve judgment until I have a chance to hear what he said instead of chopped up quotes.

As for the minimizing exemptions you're speaking of, the legality of that conflicts with the statement of how widely distributed it was which would have required downgrading the classification.


Totally agree on the distribution. Sounds like too many people had that info.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Sounds like this could be big. Maybe a whistleblower even.

If.... a whole bunch of "incidental" data was packaged together, put in a report, and "widely distributed"... that's a BFD.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:10 pm 
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The plot continues to thicken...

=======================
Nunes: The NSA’s Trump Campaign Surveillance Does Not ‘Have Anything To Do with Russia’
‘The reports that I was able to see did not have anything to do with Russia or the Russian investigation or any tie to the Trump team’
Mar 22, 2017

NUNES: "Today I briefed the President on the concerns that I had about incidental collection and how it relates to the President-elect Trump and his transition team and the concerns that I have. As I said earlier, there will be more information, hopefully by Friday. The NSA is cooperating very, very well. And lastly I'll say that the reports that I was able to see did not have anything to do with Russia or the Russia investigation or any tie to the Trump team."

https://news.grabien.com/story-nunes-ns ... ve-anythin

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Wow, just listened to the 2nd (?) Nunes interview...he hits right on the point I made earlier about the unmasking/dissemination. He's really sticking his neck out here with some of his comments.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425836-1/ ... rveillance

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:49 pm 
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Press release from the Intelligence Committee website:

Quote:
Public Remarks on Incidental Collection of Trump Associates

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes



March 22, 2017

At our open hearing on Monday, I encouraged anyone who has information about relevant topics—including surveillance on President-elect Trump or his transition team—to come forward and speak to the House Intelligence Committee. I also said that, while there was not a physical wiretap of Trump Tower, I was concerned that other surveillance activities were used against President Trump and his associates.

· I recently confirmed that, on numerous occasions, the Intelligence Community incidentally collected information about U.S. citizens involved in the Trump transition.

· Details about U.S. persons associated with the incoming administration—details with little or no apparent foreign intelligence value—were widely disseminated in intelligence community reporting.

· I have confirmed that additional names of Trump transition team members were unmasked.

· To be clear, none of this surveillance was related to Russia or any investigation of Russian activities or of the Trump team.

The House Intelligence Committee will thoroughly investigate this surveillance and its subsequent dissemination to determine:

· Who was aware of it
· Why it was not disclosed to Congress

· Who requested and authorized the additional unmasking

· Whether anyone directed the intelligence community to focus on Trump associates; and

· Whether any laws, regulations, or procedures were violated

I’ve asked the Directors of the FBI, NSA, and CIA to expeditiously comply with my March 15 letter, and to provide a full account of these surveillance activities. I informed Speaker Ryan this morning of this new information, and I will be going to the White House this afternoon to share what I know with the President.

http://intelligence.house.gov/news/docu ... mentID=774

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:18 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
Attila T Hun wrote:
It is really getting funny watching the lying Dems, twisting and turning.....If you like your incidental surveillance, you can keep your....................


Setting aside your "Dem" characterization, using the correct definition of words is not lying. In this case, it is the Trumpsters that are twisting, turning, and lying. Or, quite possibly, just choosing to remain ignorant.


Another "depends on what your definition is, is." defense by the Dems

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Attila T Hun wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Attila T Hun wrote:
It is really getting funny watching the lying Dems, twisting and turning.....If you like your incidental surveillance, you can keep your....................


Setting aside your "Dem" characterization, using the correct definition of words is not lying. In this case, it is the Trumpsters that are twisting, turning, and lying. Or, quite possibly, just choosing to remain ignorant.


Another "depends on what your definition is, is." defense by the Dems


You're the only one that thinks that each of those words has fluid definitions. They don't. Not sure what you're rambling about because everyone else in this thread seems to understand them.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:15 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
Attila T Hun wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Attila T Hun wrote:
It is really getting funny watching the lying Dems, twisting and turning.....If you like your incidental surveillance, you can keep your....................


Setting aside your "Dem" characterization, using the correct definition of words is not lying. In this case, it is the Trumpsters that are twisting, turning, and lying. Or, quite possibly, just choosing to remain ignorant.


Another "depends on what your definition is, is." defense by the Dems


You're the only one that thinks that each of those words has fluid definitions. They don't. Not sure what you're rambling about because everyone else in this thread seems to understand them.


When all else fails, Dems just start the insults...We won, you lost, live with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Attila T Hun wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Attila T Hun wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Attila T Hun wrote:
It is really getting funny watching the lying Dems, twisting and turning.....If you like your incidental surveillance, you can keep your....................


Setting aside your "Dem" characterization, using the correct definition of words is not lying. In this case, it is the Trumpsters that are twisting, turning, and lying. Or, quite possibly, just choosing to remain ignorant.


Another "depends on what your definition is, is." defense by the Dems


You're the only one that thinks that each of those words has fluid definitions. They don't. Not sure what you're rambling about because everyone else in this thread seems to understand them.


When all else fails, Dems just start the insults...We won, you lost, live with it.





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:32 pm 
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LOL..You guys sound like the Baltimore dolt defending their position on bringing in the illegal who raped the your girl...Good job guys.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Attila T Hun wrote:
LOL..You guys sound like the Baltimore dolt defending their position on bringing in the illegal who raped the your girl...Good job guys.


Come again?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:05 am 
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Attila T Hun wrote:
LOL..You guys sound like the Baltimore dolt defending their position on bringing in the illegal who raped the your girl...Good job guys.


What in the wide, wide world of sports are you talking about?


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