Re: Trump transition members were under surveillance
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:49 am
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Yeah. This was ordered. This is a YUGE scandal.
And this one?HokieFanDC wrote:Saying it is serious is not the same as defending Trump. It is serious, if true.RiverguyVT wrote:The "bottom line" is that there are correct and incorrect ways to describe things. Trump has a history of being loose with the things he says, including fabricating complete crap. And WADR, the ppl who defend everything he says, all the time, are the ones that look silly, they just ignore all the crap he makes up. So, when he continues to be loose with the things he says, no, I'm not going to drop it.
I hope I don't come off as defending Trump on whacky stuff; but I do hope also to give him cred when the whacky stuff comes to fruition.
This Rice thing is (once again, just another scandal) on its face more serious than Watergate... but there have been a lot of those.
Interested as to why this would more serious than Watergate. Watergate had actual illegal wiretapping, document destruction, conspiracy to cover up the illegal activities, disrupt the investigations, and a ton of other stuff. Watergate had a cornucopia of illegal activity.
and even this morning as the evidence piles up the MSM is continuing to say this whole unmasking stuff is a diversion, Rice did absolutely nothing illegal and they have no earthly idea how all the stuff was leaked to the MSM...... gotta love a totally bias pressRiverguyVT wrote:And this one?HokieFanDC wrote:Saying it is serious is not the same as defending Trump. It is serious, if true.RiverguyVT wrote:The "bottom line" is that there are correct and incorrect ways to describe things. Trump has a history of being loose with the things he says, including fabricating complete crap. And WADR, the ppl who defend everything he says, all the time, are the ones that look silly, they just ignore all the crap he makes up. So, when he continues to be loose with the things he says, no, I'm not going to drop it.
I hope I don't come off as defending Trump on whacky stuff; but I do hope also to give him cred when the whacky stuff comes to fruition.
This Rice thing is (once again, just another scandal) on its face more serious than Watergate... but there have been a lot of those.
Interested as to why this would more serious than Watergate. Watergate had actual illegal wiretapping, document destruction, conspiracy to cover up the illegal activities, disrupt the investigations, and a ton of other stuff. Watergate had a cornucopia of illegal activity.
check, check, check... etc... and throw in a complicit media (unlike watergate).
We've known this for a while. It was "Five Eyes" intelligence sharing. I don't remember Spicer saying anything about this, but it's certainly possible, he's changed the story a dozen times......USN_Hokie wrote:Looking like Spicer was right. I think lots of people are playing games with classification to obfuscate. And of course, still zero evidence of any wrongdoing.
It was denied that foreign intelligence was used to proxy spy on Trump's campaign.HokieFanDC wrote:We've known this for a while. It was "Five Eyes" intelligence sharing. I don't remember Spicer saying anything about this, but it's certainly possible, he's changed the story a dozen times......USN_Hokie wrote:Looking like Spicer was right. I think lots of people are playing games with classification to obfuscate. And of course, still zero evidence of any wrongdoing.
But, yes, still zero evidence of wrongdoing.
ut ohTheH2 wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:People are arguing semantics to cloud the issue, but the accusations are very real.133743Hokie wrote:It's coming down to semantics IMO. Trumps accusation is that the Obama administration intentionally electronically eavesdropped on him and his team. What is coming out now is that Trump and his teams electronic communications were swept up in a broader collection effort, not necessarily targeted at them, but that the names, places, specifics, etc. were then disseminated by the Obama administration to multiple intelligence agencies in an attempt to discredit Trump and his team.
So, did Obama wiretap Trump? No, it doesn't appear so. Did the Obama administration gather electronic surveillance on Trumps people and pass it around the intel community? Probably.
No, I don't believe some guy climbed up a telephone pole and attached alligator clips to land lines which enter Trump Tower. No sane person interpreted his comments like that.
He said "wires tapped" in Trump Towers. He was quite specific. He then compared what Obama did to Nixon. Is there evidence of "wire tapping" in Trump Towers? This is the same guy that said our president was born in Kenya and millions voted illegally and his dick isn't small and his crowd size was bigger.
The beauty for him is that he says stupid $hit so often. I have someone looking into the birth certificate and you wouldn't believe what they're finding.....
Given everything he says, I would find it hard for sane people to give him the benefit of the doubt.
so you would have no issue with Trump in 7 years using the FBI and other gov. organizations to attempt to sway the election of the next prez? It is simple as that, Obummer is all over this and it is as dirty as can beHokieFanDC wrote:All those words - surveillance, incidental collection, and monitor, have different meanings.USN_Hokie wrote:That's not what this article is alluding to at all. He said outright that they were monitored. You don't "incidentally" monitor somebodyHokieFanDC wrote: If it was incidental collection, then that means the Trump team was not under surveillance.
Incidental collection of info on one person, comes from surveillance of another.
The monitoring part of it, which doesn't have a specific meaning like the other two, it's something Nunes called it, sounds like someone was keeping track of the incidental collection data collected on certain people. That certainly sounds and needs to be clarified, but it is still not surveillance. And depending on who they are talking about, not having a name minimized is not in itself an issue. Because of Flynn's position, his name would probably not be masked.
ouchHokieFanDC wrote:awesome guy wrote:That's not what's happened. Playing to the middle has made you half wrong and Trump all right. You said he was lying when he tweeted and he's right.HokieFanDC wrote:My snarkiness needs no smackdown. This is consistent with what I've been saying all along, which is that the collection of the data on the conversations is legal, but that the unmasking and dissemination is a problem that could be a big deal.awesome guy wrote:Hoof, Fatroll, and TrollingVT are about to have a bad week. DC too as his snarkiness on this has brought the required smackdown from the universe.USN_Hokie wrote:Wow...just,wow.
Former President Barack Obama’s national security adviser Susan Rice ordered U.S. spy agencies to produce “detailed spreadsheets” of legal phone calls involving Donald Trump and his aides when he was running for president, according to former U.S. Attorney Joseph diGenova.
“What was produced by the intelligence community at the request of Ms. Rice were detailed spreadsheets of intercepted phone calls with unmasked Trump associates in perfectly legal conversations with individuals,” diGenova told The Daily Caller News Foundation Investigative Group Monday.
“The overheard conversations involved no illegal activity by anybody of the Trump associates, or anyone they were speaking with,” diGenova said. “In short, the only apparent illegal activity was the unmasking of the people in the calls.”
http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/03/susan ... z4dHytPiCn
I've been saying that for weeks, and while my boy Nunes was a little late to the party, he finally got on board.
I'll concede that it is possible that in Trump's mind, he may have equated umasking and disseminating this info to Obama having his phones tapped, but that doesn't mean he was right. What he said is still not what actually happened. No worries, I never expect you to admit something Trump said was wrong. You still think 3 million illegal aliens voted for Hillary.
HooFighter wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:This is the part that the smoking gun will have to prove:USN_Hokie wrote:Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source says
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03 ... -says.html
The intelligence is said to leave no doubt the Obama administration, in its closing days, was using the cover of legitimate surveillance on foreign targets to spy on President-elect Trump, according to sources.
No one doubts the incidental surveillance during the FBI's investigation of the Russians. The question is whether it's proven to be the Obama administration (and specifically Obama himself) strategized to use that as a cover for something illegal or sinister.
ouch[/quote]awesome guy wrote:HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what's happened. Playing to the middle has made you half wrong and Trump all right. You said he was lying when he tweeted and he's right.awesome guy wrote:My snarkiness needs no smackdown. This is consistent with what I've been saying all along, which is that the collection of the data on the conversations is legal, but that the unmasking and dissemination is a problem that could be a big deal.HokieFanDC wrote:Hoof, Fatroll, and TrollingVT are about to have a bad week. DC too as his snarkiness on this has brought the required smackdown from the universe.awesome guy wrote:
I've been saying that for weeks, and while my boy Nunes was a little late to the party, he finally got on board.
I'll concede that it is possible that in Trump's mind, he may have equated umasking and disseminating this info to Obama having his phones tapped, but that doesn't mean he was right. What he said is still not what actually happened. No worries, I never expect you to admit something Trump said was wrong. You still think 3 million illegal aliens voted for Hillary.
Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Help me out Ace, what happens after a wiretapping warrant is granted? Do you think, maybe, perhaps, wiretapping?HokieFanDC wrote:Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Page has said that he has never met, or spoken, to Trump.
The Trump folks say that Page has never been to Trump Tower to meet with anyone.
The Trump campaign people said that Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
Page was dismissed as an adviser in September 2016.
The FISA warrant was issued in October 2016, after Page was dismissed.
So, how does that equate to Trump being wiretapped????
Sure, Ace, you got that part right. But, Ace, how is Trump going to get wiretapped under a FISA warrant for Carter Page (who has never met or spoken to Trump) in October 2016?awesome guy wrote:Help me out Ace, what happens after a wiretapping warrant is granted? Do you think, maybe, perhaps, wiretapping?HokieFanDC wrote:Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Page has said that he has never met, or spoken, to Trump.
The Trump folks say that Page has never been to Trump Tower to meet with anyone.
The Trump campaign people said that Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
Page was dismissed as an adviser in September 2016.
The FISA warrant was issued in October 2016, after Page was dismissed.
So, how does that equate to Trump being wiretapped????
HokieFanDC wrote:Sure, Ace, you got that part right. But, Ace, how is Trump going to get wiretapped under a FISA warrant for Carter Page (who has never met or spoken to Trump) in October 2016?awesome guy wrote:Help me out Ace, what happens after a wiretapping warrant is granted? Do you think, maybe, perhaps, wiretapping?HokieFanDC wrote:Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Page has said that he has never met, or spoken, to Trump.
The Trump folks say that Page has never been to Trump Tower to meet with anyone.
The Trump campaign people said that Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
Page was dismissed as an adviser in September 2016.
The FISA warrant was issued in October 2016, after Page was dismissed.
So, how does that equate to Trump being wiretapped????
Yeh, no. The Trump ppl have said that Page was never in Trump Tower. And how is a nobody, who had nothing to do with the campaign, getting into Trump Tower, after he's been dismissed as an advisor. What you're claiming, would mean that the Trump folks lied about Page's role, and access.awesome guy wrote:HokieFanDC wrote:Sure, Ace, you got that part right. But, Ace, how is Trump going to get wiretapped under a FISA warrant for Carter Page (who has never met or spoken to Trump) in October 2016?awesome guy wrote:Help me out Ace, what happens after a wiretapping warrant is granted? Do you think, maybe, perhaps, wiretapping?HokieFanDC wrote:Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Page has said that he has never met, or spoken, to Trump.
The Trump folks say that Page has never been to Trump Tower to meet with anyone.
The Trump campaign people said that Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
Page was dismissed as an adviser in September 2016.
The FISA warrant was issued in October 2016, after Page was dismissed.
So, how does that equate to Trump being wiretapped????
Because he's in Trump Tower, where the espionage took place. Is that clear enough Ace? Susan Rice has already been outed as unmasking Trump staff in the transcripts, not sure why you're digging in here.
HokieFanDC wrote:
Yeh, no. The Trump ppl have said that Page was never in Trump Tower. And how is a nobody, who had nothing to do with the campaign, getting into Trump Tower, after he's been dismissed as an advisor. What you're claiming, would mean that the Trump folks lied about Page's role, and access.
Surely you're not suggesting that the motives for the FISA warrant were genuine, correct? You're aware that this is a common tactic of law enforcement to obtain surveillance information on other folks, right?HokieFanDC wrote:Sure, Ace, you got that part right. But, Ace, how is Trump going to get wiretapped under a FISA warrant for Carter Page (who has never met or spoken to Trump) in October 2016?awesome guy wrote:Help me out Ace, what happens after a wiretapping warrant is granted? Do you think, maybe, perhaps, wiretapping?HokieFanDC wrote:Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Page has said that he has never met, or spoken, to Trump.
The Trump folks say that Page has never been to Trump Tower to meet with anyone.
The Trump campaign people said that Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
Page was dismissed as an adviser in September 2016.
The FISA warrant was issued in October 2016, after Page was dismissed.
So, how does that equate to Trump being wiretapped????
Apparently a warrant to investigate collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia excluded Trump. That's what DC is saying at least.USN_Hokie wrote:Surely you're not suggesting that the motives for the FISA warrant were genuine, correct? You're aware that this is a common tactic of law enforcement to obtain surveillance information on other folks, right?HokieFanDC wrote:Sure, Ace, you got that part right. But, Ace, how is Trump going to get wiretapped under a FISA warrant for Carter Page (who has never met or spoken to Trump) in October 2016?awesome guy wrote:Help me out Ace, what happens after a wiretapping warrant is granted? Do you think, maybe, perhaps, wiretapping?HokieFanDC wrote:Here are some facts.awesome guy wrote:Uhhhhhh, yeah. You think it doesn't? It shows how they got the FISA warrant to do so. This has to be a bit or it's the ultimate golden shovel move.HokieFanDC wrote: Ouch, what?
You think the memo shows that Trump tower was wiretapped???
Page has said that he has never met, or spoken, to Trump.
The Trump folks say that Page has never been to Trump Tower to meet with anyone.
The Trump campaign people said that Page had nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
Page was dismissed as an adviser in September 2016.
The FISA warrant was issued in October 2016, after Page was dismissed.
So, how does that equate to Trump being wiretapped????
You think the FBI and DNC paid for the made up piss gate dossier, then went through all those hurdles to spy on a nobody?
He has never lived or had an office in Trump Tower. His one man company, Global Energy Capital, has an office on the 21st floor of the building behind Trump Tower, on Madison Ave. He rented space in a Regus business center. You're wrong again.awesome guy wrote:HokieFanDC wrote:
Yeh, no. The Trump ppl have said that Page was never in Trump Tower. And how is a nobody, who had nothing to do with the campaign, getting into Trump Tower, after he's been dismissed as an advisor. What you're claiming, would mean that the Trump folks lied about Page's role, and access.
He lives and/or has an office in Trump Tower. You do realize that Trump leases out space in Trump Tower and it's not all his house, right? He also says he spent many hours at the campaign headquarters, which was in Trump Tower. This where the DNCNN is claiming Obama had incidental espionage on Trump, as they spied on a person in Trump Tower and picked up Trump electronic communications "accidentally". All from the fake dossier paid for by Clinton.
Whatever, that's close enough to intercept. And he says he was at Trump Tower so he's still a geographically convenient target.HokieFanDC wrote:He has never lived or had an office in Trump Tower. His one man company, Global Energy Capital, has an office on the 21st floor of the building behind Trump Tower, on Madison Ave. He rented space in a Regus business center. You're wrong again.awesome guy wrote:HokieFanDC wrote:
Yeh, no. The Trump ppl have said that Page was never in Trump Tower. And how is a nobody, who had nothing to do with the campaign, getting into Trump Tower, after he's been dismissed as an advisor. What you're claiming, would mean that the Trump folks lied about Page's role, and access.
He lives and/or has an office in Trump Tower. You do realize that Trump leases out space in Trump Tower and it's not all his house, right? He also says he spent many hours at the campaign headquarters, which was in Trump Tower. This where the DNCNN is claiming Obama had incidental espionage on Trump, as they spied on a person in Trump Tower and picked up Trump electronic communications "accidentally". All from the fake dossier paid for by Clinton.
And the Trump campaign has said that Carter Page has never been in the Trump Tower. You're now calling them liars. Which is it?