I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

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fatman
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I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by fatman »

I think it has become a non-issue. The US is already 50% of the way to meeting the goals of the agreement. Trumps's decision could be seen coming from a mile away. Despite all the concerns from partisans it doesn't matter. Trump has zero vision here, he has lost his opportunity to lead(he will pay the price in terms of political capital) but progress moves on as other leaders emerge.

Leader #1 the mayor of Pittsburgh.
He doesn't need trump to tell him how to run his city. He can, and will, continue to invest is responsible projects. He can and says he will fund projects to replace inefficient lighting with LED. He can and will continue to invent electric vehicles and driverless cars, CMU is a top engineering school, they won't be held back by trumps lack of vision. The majority of mayors will follow this path of progress, particularly in highly educated locations. I do believe Mississippi, WV, and similar states will follow the trump path.

Leader(#2) are busIness leaders
Business leaders overwhelmingly support the Paris deal. Trumps' opinion is irrelevant to them. They'll still invest in more efficient energy projects and fuel sources. They will need to more aggressively market their efforts to offset the poor brand that America has with consumers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

The CEO's of companies have been quick to distance themselves from trump. The exception is coal company CEOs.

Again, no biggie. Trump lost his opportunity to lead, but progress will continue. Trump has made himself irrelevant.

Leader(s) #3
The governors have more control that trump at this point. States can, and will continue to, create fuel standards. Once California, NY, and the other governors write strict fuel standards for cars, it becomes a defacto national standard. Car company's will use the Cali standard nationally.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

Leader(s) #4 the rest of the world minus Libya and North Korea
As car companies design to tighter global specs and electrics get cheaper at scale, those dominant technologies become the dominant technologies in the us.

I think Mike Bloomberg may be stepping up to be Americas leader on climate change. It appears that he can lead the coalition of states, cities, and companies and just bypass trump altogether. He wrote a check to personally cover the US's administrative costs to the UN.

http://fortune.com/2017/06/02/bloomberg ... unding-un/

In summary, I think all the partisan excitement on this issue from both sides is misplaced. Trump is a nothing-burger on the issue.

Based on trumps endevours into diplomacy, he should check out a copy of how to win friends and influence people or the art of the deal. I think he is striking out on both fronts.

PS: how funny was the prominent placement of virginia's own Emory and Henry in that article.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by Major Kong »

fatman wrote:I think it has become a non-issue. The US is already 50% of the way to meeting the goals of the agreement. Trumps's decision could be seen coming from a mile away. Despite all the concerns from partisans it doesn't matter. Trump has zero vision here, he has lost his opportunity to lead(he will pay the price in terms of political capital) but progress moves on as other leaders emerge.

It's a non issue because it was never one in the first place. Lets look at your 50% of meeting goals. This was achieved by provisions in the Clean Air Act and more specifically in the Title V permitting program...also Section 5 of the toxic Release Inventory on efforts to reduce the release of toxics across all media. All of this was accomplished by not needing an non binding agreement with no codification and absolutely no way of verifying other than trusting governments that lie like rugs that they are actually reporting. We have no idea what the actual emission #'s are from China and India. The #'s were derived by Oak Ridge National Laboratory using AP-42 with what we think we know.

Trump's vision was spot on Governments don't install pollution controls, business and industry do.

As an aside the only way to absolutely and positively ensure that emissions are actually reduced are "drum roll" cutting back throughput (i.e. production). Engineering controls and pollution controls can only be so effective.

The technologies we're talking here aren't new, they're not expensive and they're easily accessible. Just using 100 year old technologies these countries could reduce their footprint by 95%...you have to wonder why these lazy gits haven't installed these controls...they don't need $$$ from the US to do it.


Leader #1 the mayor of Pittsburgh.
He doesn't need trump to tell him how to run his city. He can, and will, continue to invest is responsible projects. He can and says he will fund projects to replace inefficient lighting with LED. He can and will continue to invent electric vehicles and driverless cars, CMU is a top engineering school, they won't be held back by trumps lack of vision. The majority of mayors will follow this path of progress, particularly in highly educated locations. I do believe Mississippi, WV, and similar states will follow the trump path.

The mayors and governors can't do jackshitt in re to national policy and have absolutely no standing...if that is the stance they're willing to take then expect them to be voted out next election.

Leader(#2) are busIness leaders
Business leaders overwhelmingly support the Paris deal. Trumps' opinion is irrelevant to them. They'll still invest in more efficient energy projects and fuel sources. They will need to more aggressively market their efforts to offset the poor brand that America has with consumers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

The CEO's of companies have been quick to distance themselves from trump. The exception is coal company CEOs.

Again, no biggie. Trump lost his opportunity to lead, but progress will continue. Trump has made himself irrelevant.

Pffft there is absolutely nothing keeping these CEO's from implementing controls above and beyond what is required in the CAA...nothing whatsoever keeps them from raising the bar not only here in the US but their overseas operations too. Let's see how many of these "leaders" will put stockholder money where their mouth is and institute US based emission standards...I'd say if any want to keep their cushy jobs it won't happen.

Leader(s) #3
The governors have more control that trump at this point. States can, and will continue to, create fuel standards. Once California, NY, and the other governors write strict fuel standards for cars, it becomes a defacto national standard. Car company's will use the Cali standard nationally.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

Actually no...local and state gubments can't do nothing. in re to any standards not without EPA approval...CA's standards are now in jeopardy as the EPA hasn't approved their petition.

Leader(s) #4 the rest of the world minus Libya and North Korea
As car companies design to tighter global specs and electrics get cheaper at scale, those dominant technologies become the dominant technologies in the us.

I think Mike Bloomberg may be stepping up to be Americas leader on climate change. It appears that he can lead the coalition of states, cities, and companies and just bypass trump altogether. He wrote a check to personally cover the US's administrative costs to the UN.

http://fortune.com/2017/06/02/bloomberg ... unding-un/

In summary, I think all the partisan excitement on this issue from both sides is misplaced. Trump is a nothing-burger on the issue.

Based on trumps endevours into diplomacy, he should check out a copy of how to win friends and influence people or the art of the deal. I think he is striking out on both fronts.

PS: how funny was the prominent placement of virginia's own Emory and Henry in that article.

Meh this was nothing but a huge money grab to give the UN some US $$$ to spread around to incompetent schittheads who didn't have the commonsense to require emission controls in the first place. I'm sure that $1.50 that might make it's way to a facility in Bangladesh will be much appreciated.
No sorry fats but Trump hit this one out of the park and the only ones who have been damaged are the boohoos that had the trough overturned and not filled back up.
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133743Hokie
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by 133743Hokie »

The heartache is more about the US ceding its stature as the world leader than the pact itself. It is the US going isolationist. It is the US stepping back from the forefront (i.e. leading from behind surprisingly). It has nothing to do with the established goals and whether the US is going to turn away from environmental issues. It is about the US GOVERNMENT stepping away from leading the charge (the rest of the world, particularly the Euro-socialist states see this a a governmental responsibility) and they don't like it.

I agree that private industry will still continue to innovate and evolve on these issues.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by miles »

Major Kong wrote:
fatman wrote:I think it has become a non-issue. The US is already 50% of the way to meeting the goals of the agreement. Trumps's decision could be seen coming from a mile away. Despite all the concerns from partisans it doesn't matter. Trump has zero vision here, he has lost his opportunity to lead(he will pay the price in terms of political capital) but progress moves on as other leaders emerge.

It's a non issue because it was never one in the first place. Lets look at your 50% of meeting goals. This was achieved by provisions in the Clean Air Act and more specifically in the Title V permitting program...also Section 5 of the toxic Release Inventory on efforts to reduce the release of toxics across all media. All of this was accomplished by not needing an non binding agreement with no codification and absolutely no way of verifying other than trusting governments that lie like rugs that they are actually reporting. We have no idea what the actual emission #'s are from China and India. The #'s were derived by Oak Ridge National Laboratory using AP-42 with what we think we know.

Trump's vision was spot on Governments don't install pollution controls, business and industry do.

As an aside the only way to absolutely and positively ensure that emissions are actually reduced are "drum roll" cutting back throughput (i.e. production). Engineering controls and pollution controls can only be so effective.

The technologies we're talking here aren't new, they're not expensive and they're easily accessible. Just using 100 year old technologies these countries could reduce their footprint by 95%...you have to wonder why these lazy gits haven't installed these controls...they don't need $$$ from the US to do it.


Leader #1 the mayor of Pittsburgh.
He doesn't need trump to tell him how to run his city. He can, and will, continue to invest is responsible projects. He can and says he will fund projects to replace inefficient lighting with LED. He can and will continue to invent electric vehicles and driverless cars, CMU is a top engineering school, they won't be held back by trumps lack of vision. The majority of mayors will follow this path of progress, particularly in highly educated locations. I do believe Mississippi, WV, and similar states will follow the trump path.

The mayors and governors can't do jackshitt in re to national policy and have absolutely no standing...if that is the stance they're willing to take then expect them to be voted out next election.

Leader(#2) are busIness leaders
Business leaders overwhelmingly support the Paris deal. Trumps' opinion is irrelevant to them. They'll still invest in more efficient energy projects and fuel sources. They will need to more aggressively market their efforts to offset the poor brand that America has with consumers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

The CEO's of companies have been quick to distance themselves from trump. The exception is coal company CEOs.

Again, no biggie. Trump lost his opportunity to lead, but progress will continue. Trump has made himself irrelevant.

Pffft there is absolutely nothing keeping these CEO's from implementing controls above and beyond what is required in the CAA...nothing whatsoever keeps them from raising the bar not only here in the US but their overseas operations too. Let's see how many of these "leaders" will put stockholder money where their mouth is and institute US based emission standards...I'd say if any want to keep their cushy jobs it won't happen.

Leader(s) #3
The governors have more control that trump at this point. States can, and will continue to, create fuel standards. Once California, NY, and the other governors write strict fuel standards for cars, it becomes a defacto national standard. Car company's will use the Cali standard nationally.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

Actually no...local and state gubments can't do nothing. in re to any standards not without EPA approval...CA's standards are now in jeopardy as the EPA hasn't approved their petition.

Leader(s) #4 the rest of the world minus Libya and North Korea
As car companies design to tighter global specs and electrics get cheaper at scale, those dominant technologies become the dominant technologies in the us.

I think Mike Bloomberg may be stepping up to be Americas leader on climate change. It appears that he can lead the coalition of states, cities, and companies and just bypass trump altogether. He wrote a check to personally cover the US's administrative costs to the UN.

http://fortune.com/2017/06/02/bloomberg ... unding-un/

In summary, I think all the partisan excitement on this issue from both sides is misplaced. Trump is a nothing-burger on the issue.

Based on trumps endevours into diplomacy, he should check out a copy of how to win friends and influence people or the art of the deal. I think he is striking out on both fronts.

PS: how funny was the prominent placement of virginia's own Emory and Henry in that article.

Meh this was nothing but a huge money grab to give the UN some US $$$ to spread around to incompetent schittheads who didn't have the commonsense to require emission controls in the first place. I'm sure that $1.50 that might make it's way to a facility in Bangladesh will be much appreciated.
No sorry fats but Trump hit this one out of the park and the only ones who have been damaged are the boohoos that had the trough overturned and not filled back up.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bottom of the ninth, SW Virginia, trailing by 3, two outs, bases loaded: Major Kong at the plate. Here's the pitch. Swung on. It's Blasted :!: Deep Deep .... It's gone :!: Grand Slam Home Run! Major Kong Blasted that muther outta the park :!: Common Sense wins... Common Sense wins... Common Sense wins :!:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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RiverguyVT
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by RiverguyVT »

"Lead". Lost the chance to lead. I've heard that expression again and again...almost as if it was a DNC released talking point.

Is it "leadership" to stay in a treaty that does absolutely nothing for the cause espoused?

Will Pittsburgh, in their bold declaration of "adherence" now send billions of $$$ overseas? Because if they don't, they're not adhering at all but rather posturing with empty gesture.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by cwtcr hokie »

fatman wrote:I think it has become a non-issue. The US is already 50% of the way to meeting the goals of the agreement. Trumps's decision could be seen coming from a mile away. Despite all the concerns from partisans it doesn't matter. Trump has zero vision here, he has lost his opportunity to lead(he will pay the price in terms of political capital) but progress moves on as other leaders emerge.

Leader #1 the mayor of Pittsburgh.
He doesn't need trump to tell him how to run his city. He can, and will, continue to invest is responsible projects. He can and says he will fund projects to replace inefficient lighting with LED. He can and will continue to invent electric vehicles and driverless cars, CMU is a top engineering school, they won't be held back by trumps lack of vision. The majority of mayors will follow this path of progress, particularly in highly educated locations. I do believe Mississippi, WV, and similar states will follow the trump path.

Leader(#2) are busIness leaders
Business leaders overwhelmingly support the Paris deal. Trumps' opinion is irrelevant to them. They'll still invest in more efficient energy projects and fuel sources. They will need to more aggressively market their efforts to offset the poor brand that America has with consumers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

The CEO's of companies have been quick to distance themselves from trump. The exception is coal company CEOs.

Again, no biggie. Trump lost his opportunity to lead, but progress will continue. Trump has made himself irrelevant.

Leader(s) #3
The governors have more control that trump at this point. States can, and will continue to, create fuel standards. Once California, NY, and the other governors write strict fuel standards for cars, it becomes a defacto national standard. Car company's will use the Cali standard nationally.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

Leader(s) #4 the rest of the world minus Libya and North Korea
As car companies design to tighter global specs and electrics get cheaper at scale, those dominant technologies become the dominant technologies in the us.

I think Mike Bloomberg may be stepping up to be Americas leader on climate change. It appears that he can lead the coalition of states, cities, and companies and just bypass trump altogether. He wrote a check to personally cover the US's administrative costs to the UN.

http://fortune.com/2017/06/02/bloomberg ... unding-un/

In summary, I think all the partisan excitement on this issue from both sides is misplaced. Trump is a nothing-burger on the issue.

Based on trumps endevours into diplomacy, he should check out a copy of how to win friends and influence people or the art of the deal. I think he is striking out on both fronts.

PS: how funny was the prominent placement of virginia's own Emory and Henry in that article.
me think Mr. Kong just wiped the floor with your post. Nothing is stopping anyone from doing whatever they want to. And corp. can do what they want to until the shareholders balk. If Obama had pulled out of the Paris Accord he would have been heralded as the smartest guy on the planet, but Trump did it as he does not care what you think about him. If you know what was in the Paris climate accord and are an american then you know how bad it was for america. Glad a politician had the balls to do the right thing, thanks Trump
fatman
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by fatman »

Major Kong wrote:
fatman wrote:I think it has become a non-issue. The US is already 50% of the way to meeting the goals of the agreement. Trumps's decision could be seen coming from a mile away. Despite all the concerns from partisans it doesn't matter. Trump has zero vision here, he has lost his opportunity to lead(he will pay the price in terms of political capital) but progress moves on as other leaders emerge.

It's a non issue because it was never one in the first place. Lets look at your 50% of meeting goals. This was achieved by provisions in the Clean Air Act and more specifically in the Title V permitting program...also Section 5 of the toxic Release Inventory on efforts to reduce the release of toxics across all media. All of this was accomplished by not needing an non binding agreement with no codification and absolutely no way of verifying other than trusting governments that lie like rugs that they are actually reporting. We have no idea what the actual emission #'s are from China and India. The #'s were derived by Oak Ridge National Laboratory using AP-42 with what we think we know.

Trump's vision was spot on Governments don't install pollution controls, business and industry do.

As an aside the only way to absolutely and positively ensure that emissions are actually reduced are "drum roll" cutting back throughput (i.e. production). Engineering controls and pollution controls can only be so effective.

The technologies we're talking here aren't new, they're not expensive and they're easily accessible. Just using 100 year old technologies these countries could reduce their footprint by 95%...you have to wonder why these lazy gits haven't installed these controls...they don't need $$$ from the US to do it.


Leader #1 the mayor of Pittsburgh.
He doesn't need trump to tell him how to run his city. He can, and will, continue to invest is responsible projects. He can and says he will fund projects to replace inefficient lighting with LED. He can and will continue to invent electric vehicles and driverless cars, CMU is a top engineering school, they won't be held back by trumps lack of vision. The majority of mayors will follow this path of progress, particularly in highly educated locations. I do believe Mississippi, WV, and similar states will follow the trump path.

The mayors and governors can't do jackshitt in re to national policy and have absolutely no standing...if that is the stance they're willing to take then expect them to be voted out next election.

You entirely missed the point or simply chose not to address it, the governors and mayors don't need to control federal policy. They can and will make responsible purchasing decisions in their jurisdictions. They will continue to buy power from renewable sources and continue to implement power conservation techniques. Trump is POTUS, not Emperor, his power is limited.

Leader(#2) are busIness leaders
Business leaders overwhelmingly support the Paris deal. Trumps' opinion is irrelevant to them. They'll still invest in more efficient energy projects and fuel sources. They will need to more aggressively market their efforts to offset the poor brand that America has with consumers. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

The CEO's of companies have been quick to distance themselves from trump. The exception is coal company CEOs.

Again, no biggie. Trump lost his opportunity to lead, but progress will continue. Trump has made himself irrelevant.

Pffft there is absolutely nothing keeping these CEO's from implementing controls above and beyond what is required in the CAA...nothing whatsoever keeps them from raising the bar not only here in the US but their overseas operations too. Let's see how many of these "leaders" will put stockholder money where their mouth is and institute US based emission standards...I'd say if any want to keep their cushy jobs it won't happen.

We will see, many CEO's have already spoken up and will continue to follow the Paris goals. Amazon, Facebook, Walmart, Google, Apple and many others have already committed to lead on this. Exxon's board, SC Johnson, and other less progressive companies as well.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/ ... hange.html

Leader(s) #3
The governors have more control that trump at this point. States can, and will continue to, create fuel standards. Once California, NY, and the other governors write strict fuel standards for cars, it becomes a defacto national standard. Car company's will use the Cali standard nationally.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/clim ... .html?_r=0

Actually no...local and state gubments can't do nothing. in re to any standards not without EPA approval...CA's standards are now in jeopardy as the EPA hasn't approved their petition.

State and local government can continue to lead. You are wrong. I'm aware that Trump is trying to object to California's fuel economy standards. Even if the Federal Gov't is able to suppress states rights, the States aren't out of ammo. The states could choose to tax cars with low MPG, increase gas taxes, provide subsidies to high MPG cars, electric cars, Solar/Wind power, etc. There are 10,000 things that States can do without the Federal Gov't.

Leader(s) #4 the rest of the world minus Libya and North Korea
As car companies design to tighter global specs and electrics get cheaper at scale, those dominant technologies become the dominant technologies in the us.

I think Mike Bloomberg may be stepping up to be Americas leader on climate change. It appears that he can lead the coalition of states, cities, and companies and just bypass trump altogether. He wrote a check to personally cover the US's administrative costs to the UN.

http://fortune.com/2017/06/02/bloomberg ... unding-un/

In summary, I think all the partisan excitement on this issue from both sides is misplaced. Trump is a nothing-burger on the issue.

Based on trumps endevours into diplomacy, he should check out a copy of how to win friends and influence people or the art of the deal. I think he is striking out on both fronts.

PS: how funny was the prominent placement of virginia's own Emory and Henry in that article.

Meh this was nothing but a huge money grab to give the UN some US $$$ to spread around to incompetent schittheads who didn't have the commonsense to require emission controls in the first place. I'm sure that $1.50 that might make it's way to a facility in Bangladesh will be much appreciated.
No sorry fats but Trump hit this one out of the park and the only ones who have been damaged are the boohoos that had the trough overturned and not filled back up.
You probably chose not to read the attached articles. Bloomberg is paying the UN's admin fees out of pocket. Trump did not hit anything out of the park, nor did he doom humanity. The partisans of both sides are wrong on this. Trump has made himself irrelevant on the issue.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by 133743Hokie »

Disagree about Trump making himself irrelevant. Rather, I see him offering a third alternative to tge two extremes. You don't have to be a 97 percenter shouting from the mountaintops that the world is going to end, and you don't have to be a so called denier either. There is a middle ground recognizing that this should be addressed by the private sector and that hollow pacts that harm the US and unequally benefit other nations aren't in our best interest.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by Major Kong »

fatman wrote:You probably chose not to read the attached articles. Bloomberg is paying the UN's admin fees out of pocket. Trump did not hit anything out of the park, nor did he doom humanity. The partisans of both sides are wrong on this. Trump has made himself irrelevant on the issue.
Meh the POTUS doesn't hold sway over reduction of air toxics that is solely within the purview of the fine manufacturers of pollution control equipment and those who install and use it...it's not some esoteric super secret technology. It can be found with a quick google search. The question then becomes why haven't these technologies been used :?: China hasn't done one damn thing in the preparing for this agreement other than weak lip service and wink, wink. Trump not only hit a grand slam but he pitched a perfect game with 27 strikeouts all looking.

I read Bloomberg's announcement when he made it...more power to him I'd rather him finance a boondoggle money grab then the American taxpayer.

I don't give a rat's ass if it was 15¢ or $15 trillion, when countries have to be bribed to do what it should have been doing to protect their citizens by using the most base of technologies since at least the middle of last century is the height of nitwittery. What the hell have these foul assholes been doing with all the $$$$ the US has been sending to them over all these years in the name of foreign aid :?:

China isn't even trying.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by Major Kong »

133743Hokie wrote:Disagree about Trump making himself irrelevant. Rather, I see him offering a third alternative to tge two extremes. You don't have to be a 97 percenter shouting from the mountaintops that the world is going to end, and you don't have to be a so called denier either. There is a middle ground recognizing that this should be addressed by the private sector and that hollow pacts that harm the US and unequally benefit other nations aren't in our best interest.
I agree with this 100%...Trump has also said he's willing to renegotiate but the EU is throwing the hissy fit.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by HokieJoe »

Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by RiverguyVT »

HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by HokieJoe »

RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?

I doubt anything of the sort will happen. Well, maybe Kalifornia...
"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by fatman »

RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by awesome guy »

fatman wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/n ... egulations
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RiverguyVT
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by RiverguyVT »

fatman wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.
Simply, the Treaty is nothing more than an agreement of the US to give others its money. Anyone on the US side of the treaty is simply obligated to give money away; anyone on the other side of the treaty need do nothing other than receive the US's money.

If Pittsburgh is to show "allegiance" to the treaty, they must be prepared to give money away. No?

Whatever energy strategies the givers and takers make basically have no bearing on the function of the treaty.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by USN_Hokie »

awesome guy wrote:
fatman wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/n ... egulations
This is good stuff. America is the Saudi Arabia of coal. We should use it while it has value.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by HokieFanDC »

awesome guy wrote:
fatman wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/n ... egulations
Trump is amazing indeed! He single-handedly turned around the world's steel market, caused China to cut it's met-coal production, and created cyclones in Australia that mucked up the met coal supply chain.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by fatman »

HokieFanDC wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
fatman wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/n ... egulations
Trump is amazing indeed! He single-handedly turned around the world's steel market, caused China to cut it's met-coal production, and created cyclones in Australia that mucked up the met coal supply chain.

Bless AG's heart for posting that article. I had seen that article and figgered it would show up here. It ended up producing more humor than I'd hoped. He probably believes that this project was a result of trumps' Paris vote. This tiny project was committed long before trump was elected. It is the exception that proves the rule. They are hiring 50 coal miners to short term dead end jobs, that isn't even a drop in the bucket to all the coal production taken offline in the past 5 years. It is the equivalent of one dude in Charlotte disputing the huge improvements in the job market in the us because he can't find a job. So funny.

The fact that trump/fox/message board nut jobs would even promote this tiny project is hilarious. The big picture is that Arby's resteraunts employ more Americans than the entire coal industry. This is like a new Arby's opening being front page news in a national news outlet. It is hilarious, and also sad.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... than-coal/

Note: this data is from 2014, there have been chronic chapter 11 events across the coal industry since then. I think actual 2017 numbers are far worse, reflecting the deteriorating economics of coal. Solar, wind, neat gas, oil, have all seen huge unit price reductions since 2014 leading to accelerated loss in share for obsolete coal.

A president running with a campaign of investing in Arby's resteraunts would be more logical and effective.
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Re: I don't get the excitement over Trump/Paris

Post by awesome guy »

fatman wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
fatman wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:Something to remember, some of these multinat's who are swearing 'allegiance' to the Paris accord have a large presence in Europe. They've already been gigged by the EU on 'anti-trust' commission, so they're playing the political game.
The -only- "allegiance" anyone other than the US govt has, is to receive money. Period. That's why I continue to ask... will NYC & Pittsburgh now pony up the billions$$$ to give away as a sign of "allegiance"?
I have no idea where you are going with this. I do believe that cities, corporations, and states will continue to invest in energy conservation, alternative energy sources, just as they have been. I believe them when they all say that they aren't going to change course based on trumps' decision here.

As one of the leaders pointed out. Business cases for building energy plants are calculated over 30-40 years. They aren't going to be distracted by policies that will only be in place for 4 more years.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/n ... egulations
Trump is amazing indeed! He single-handedly turned around the world's steel market, caused China to cut it's met-coal production, and created cyclones in Australia that mucked up the met coal supply chain.

Bless AG's heart for posting that article. I had seen that article and figgered it would show up here. It ended up producing more humor than I'd hoped. He probably believes that this project was a result of trumps' Paris vote. This tiny project was committed long before trump was elected. It is the exception that proves the rule. They are hiring 50 coal miners to short term dead end jobs, that isn't even a drop in the bucket to all the coal production taken offline in the past 5 years. It is the equivalent of one dude in Charlotte disputing the huge improvements in the job market in the us because he can't find a job. So funny.

The fact that trump/fox/message board nut jobs would even promote this tiny project is hilarious. The big picture is that Arby's resteraunts employ more Americans than the entire coal industry. This is like a new Arby's opening being front page news in a national news outlet. It is hilarious, and also sad.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... than-coal/

Note: this data is from 2014, there have been chronic chapter 11 events across the coal industry since then. I think actual 2017 numbers are far worse, reflecting the deteriorating economics of coal. Solar, wind, neat gas, oil, have all seen huge unit price reductions since 2014 leading to accelerated loss in share for obsolete coal.

A president running with a campaign of investing in Arby's resteraunts would be more logical and effective.
Great comedy FaTroll, keep the laughs coming.
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