Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

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Techmomof2
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Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by Techmomof2 »

Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by cwtcr hokie »

Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by ip_law-hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
Techmomof2
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by Techmomof2 »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?

Been there twice, and yes. Get a good travel guide and pick the sights and restaurants you want to visit. Lava was flowing when I was there which was pretty cool, I mean hot!


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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by cwtcr hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


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my wife and I took her mother a few years ago, it was fun, prices are high for just about everything. We stayed most of the week on the big island, hotel was in sight of diamond head, down the street from the main drag in waikiki. Hopped over to one of the small islands, kauai for a couple of days, it is much less commercialized and had lots of outdoor stuff to do, if we went back probably stay on one of the small less commercialized islands all week instead of the big island. For us tho it is a long trip over there, like 3 hours hop to AZ then 8-9 hours to fly into hawaii and with our farm operation not sure how we would do it again anytime soon
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

I understand the concept of basic income far in the future when almost everything is automated, and there are zero jobs. But what kind of society will we have when people have more time on their hands then they know what to do with? Not everyone will be law abiding / well behaved citizens. And people are competitive by nature, so people will not be content to all receive the same government allowance.

Anyways, we're not there yet and Hawaii is jumping the gun here - which just means they will become a magnet for vagrants and homeless people (that can afford to get there).
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by ip_law-hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

my wife and I took her mother a few years ago, it was fun, prices are high for just about everything. We stayed most of the week on the big island, hotel was in sight of diamond head, down the street from the main drag in waikiki. Hopped over to one of the small islands, kauai for a couple of days, it is much less commercialized and had lots of outdoor stuff to do, if we went back probably stay on one of the small less commercialized islands all week instead of the big island. For us tho it is a long trip over there, like 3 hours hop to AZ then 8-9 hours to fly into hawaii and with our farm operation not sure how we would do it again anytime soon
I don't like flying, and if I were to spend that much time in a plane I would rather experience something more different than Hawaii.

Everybody I know who has been says it is beautiful though.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by HokieFanDC »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely worth it. There is something for everyone. If you like resort vacations, you can go to Oahu, which is the standard place people go. Lots to do, lots of people. Best restaurants all around. It's too touristy for me, though.

We went in '14 with gparents, niece, and nephew, us and our 2 kids. We stayed on Big Island, in Kona, and had a great time. Less crowded, lots of outdoor activities. Fishing, hiking, snorkeling, scuba, seahorse aquarium, some cool lava structures and waterfalls, and of course, active volcanos. We rented a house so we could all stay together . When we go back, we'll probably go there or a smaller Island, but Big Island was a good mix of normal tourist and outdoorsy stuff.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by ip_law-hokie »

Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Fundamentally I support the notion if it comes with some sort of work or public service requirement.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
VisorBoy
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by VisorBoy »

Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by BigDave »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:I understand the concept of basic income far in the future when almost everything is automated, and there are zero jobs. But what kind of society will we have when people have more time on their hands then they know what to do with? Not everyone will be law abiding / well behaved citizens. And people are competitive by nature, so people will not be content to all receive the same government allowance.

Anyways, we're not there yet and Hawaii is jumping the gun here - which just means they will become a magnet for vagrants and homeless people (that can afford to get there).
A huge problem I see with it is the potential for abuse. My dog, cat, and goldfish will all be getting a guaranteed basic income. My grandparents (all deceased) will be getting a guaranteed basic income. When you hand out lifechanging amounts of money, you're just begging for abuse.

I also wonder if it would actually solve the problem it purports to or if it would be just like raising the minimum wage - you just drive the price of everything up.

And ultimately, I don't know if you can fix stupid by throwing money at it. Last night, I was on my way to a church in a really bad section of town. (It's a people sitting out on their front porches on couches section.) There are pretty narrow streets and cars parked on both sides and a lot of places where only one car at a time can pass by (if there is oncoming traffic, someone has to pull over while the other car drives by). Then these two cars come flying around a blind turn - I don't know how they didn't hit me - and they were clearly racing each other with no regard for anyone else who might have been in the street. Is giving them a check for $10000 going to fix the problem? No. What's going to fix the problem (aside possibly from some mental health care) is getting them a job where they wake up, go to work, and have some responsibility in the world.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by awesome guy »

BigDave wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:I understand the concept of basic income far in the future when almost everything is automated, and there are zero jobs. But what kind of society will we have when people have more time on their hands then they know what to do with? Not everyone will be law abiding / well behaved citizens. And people are competitive by nature, so people will not be content to all receive the same government allowance.

Anyways, we're not there yet and Hawaii is jumping the gun here - which just means they will become a magnet for vagrants and homeless people (that can afford to get there).
A huge problem I see with it is the potential for abuse. My dog, cat, and goldfish will all be getting a guaranteed basic income. My grandparents (all deceased) will be getting a guaranteed basic income. When you hand out lifechanging amounts of money, you're just begging for abuse.

I also wonder if it would actually solve the problem it purports to or if it would be just like raising the minimum wage - you just drive the price of everything up.

And ultimately, I don't know if you can fix stupid by throwing money at it. Last night, I was on my way to a church in a really bad section of town. (It's a people sitting out on their front porches on couches section.) There are pretty narrow streets and cars parked on both sides and a lot of places where only one car at a time can pass by (if there is oncoming traffic, someone has to pull over while the other car drives by). Then these two cars come flying around a blind turn - I don't know how they didn't hit me - and they were clearly racing each other with no regard for anyone else who might have been in the street. Is giving them a check for $10000 going to fix the problem? No. What's going to fix the problem (aside possibly from some mental health care) is getting them a job where they wake up, go to work, and have some responsibility in the world.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by 133743Hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I have no problem if a state wants to use its own revenues to create a "basic income", whatever that is. Likewise, if a state wants to fund universal health care insurance for all residents; again that's fine with me as long as they use internal dollars.

The caveat is don't come begging to the federal government for a bailout. Don't come crying to the federal government with an exploding Medicaid roll. When you fail, and you will fail, and when your state is deep in debt, and you will be deep in debt, you're on your own. And if the federal government wants to pull operations out of the state because it's a mess then so be it.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by USN_Hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I'm confused. Statist =/= states rights. (not sure if that's what you were saying). The two are often times mutually exclusive.

I believe in the constitution. I believe in states rights and the 10A.

I think Hawaii is full of idiots if they do this, but as long as it's constitutional and I live somewhere that I don't have to pay for it, I'm OK with that. In the same way, I'm OK with Colorado legalizing pot - and I was OK with states legalizing gay marriage. Of course, statists screwed that up.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by VisorBoy »

USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I'm confused. Statist =/= states rights. (not sure if that's what you were saying). The two are often times mutually exclusive.

I believe in the constitution. I believe in states rights and the 10A.

I think Hawaii is full of idiots if they do this, but as long as it's constitutional and I live somewhere that I don't have to pay for it, I'm OK with that. In the same way, I'm OK with Colorado legalizing pot - and I was OK with states legalizing gay marriage. Of course, statists screwed that up.
No I didn't mean to imply a connection between statism and states' rights. In fact, I was interested in hearing where people place more value between opposing statism and preserving states' rights.

So, as in this case, if a state gov't proposes a statist policy, what are the opinions of states' rights proponents who may very well also be anti-statist?
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by RiverguyVT »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by VisorBoy »

133743Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I have no problem if a state wants to use its own revenues to create a "basic income", whatever that is. Likewise, if a state wants to fund universal health care insurance for all residents; again that's fine with me as long as they use internal dollars.

The caveat is don't come begging to the federal government for a bailout. Don't come crying to the federal government with an exploding Medicaid roll. When you fail, and you will fail, and when your state is deep in debt, and you will be deep in debt, you're on your own. And if the federal government wants to pull operations out of the state because it's a mess then so be it.
I've come across that opinion before and to be honest, I'm a little baffled by it.

It seems to imply that when a federal statist policy is debated, the issue anti-statists have with it is not the policy itself. Instead, it is the fact that the statist policy applies to a larger in-group than a US state (i.e. it applies nationally). To me, that means that the fundamental disagreement between statism vs. business freedom is, in fact, an argument over the size of the population affected by a given policy, not the increase in statism.

What do you think?
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by 133743Hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I have no problem if a state wants to use its own revenues to create a "basic income", whatever that is. Likewise, if a state wants to fund universal health care insurance for all residents; again that's fine with me as long as they use internal dollars.

The caveat is don't come begging to the federal government for a bailout. Don't come crying to the federal government with an exploding Medicaid roll. When you fail, and you will fail, and when your state is deep in debt, and you will be deep in debt, you're on your own. And if the federal government wants to pull operations out of the state because it's a mess then so be it.
I've come across that opinion before and to be honest, I'm a little baffled by it.

It seems to imply that when a federal statist policy is debated, the issue anti-statists have with it is not the policy itself. Instead, it is the fact that the statist policy applies to a larger in-group than a US state (i.e. it applies nationally). To me, that means that the fundamental disagreement between statism vs. business freedom is, in fact, an argument over the size of the population affected by a given policy, not the increase in statism.

What do you think?
I disagree with the policy. But it isn't my decision to make. As to your question, I agree that the state has the right to implement a statewide policy that doesn't violate the US Constitution. I'm not sure what your question is?

As I stated, I disagree with the policy so by nature I don't want it to be applied nationwide. I disagree with the policy from a federal perspective because 1) it won't work on a large scale and 2) it will be an enormous financial burden on the US. It's much easier to do something for 3 million than 30 million, and for 30 million rather than 300 million. Some things just aren't scalable.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by Hokie CPA »

VisorBoy wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I'm confused. Statist =/= states rights. (not sure if that's what you were saying). The two are often times mutually exclusive.

I believe in the constitution. I believe in states rights and the 10A.

I think Hawaii is full of idiots if they do this, but as long as it's constitutional and I live somewhere that I don't have to pay for it, I'm OK with that. In the same way, I'm OK with Colorado legalizing pot - and I was OK with states legalizing gay marriage. Of course, statists screwed that up.
No I didn't mean to imply a connection between statism and states' rights. In fact, I was interested in hearing where people place more value between opposing statism and preserving states' rights.

So, as in this case, if a state gov't proposes a statist policy, what are the opinions of states' rights proponents who may very well also be anti-statist?
As long as MY state isn't the one pushing statist policy, IDGAF. If Hawai'i wants to have this universal basic income, why should I care as long as I don't have to pay for it?

I'm for states' rights and I'm anti-statist at the federal level, as well as in my own state.
I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican... if you refuse to consider alternatives to the two parties, you support the Status Quo and you are a major part of the problem.

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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by USN_Hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I'm confused. Statist =/= states rights. (not sure if that's what you were saying). The two are often times mutually exclusive.

I believe in the constitution. I believe in states rights and the 10A.

I think Hawaii is full of idiots if they do this, but as long as it's constitutional and I live somewhere that I don't have to pay for it, I'm OK with that. In the same way, I'm OK with Colorado legalizing pot - and I was OK with states legalizing gay marriage. Of course, statists screwed that up.
No I didn't mean to imply a connection between statism and states' rights. In fact, I was interested in hearing where people place more value between opposing statism and preserving states' rights.

So, as in this case, if a state gov't proposes a statist policy, what are the opinions of states' rights proponents who may very well also be anti-statist?
OK. I gave my answer...
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by awesome guy »

VisorBoy wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I'm confused. Statist =/= states rights. (not sure if that's what you were saying). The two are often times mutually exclusive.

I believe in the constitution. I believe in states rights and the 10A.

I think Hawaii is full of idiots if they do this, but as long as it's constitutional and I live somewhere that I don't have to pay for it, I'm OK with that. In the same way, I'm OK with Colorado legalizing pot - and I was OK with states legalizing gay marriage. Of course, statists screwed that up.
No I didn't mean to imply a connection between statism and states' rights. In fact, I was interested in hearing where people place more value between opposing statism and preserving states' rights.

So, as in this case, if a state gov't proposes a statist policy, what are the opinions of states' rights proponents who may very well also be anti-statist?

We can simultaneously think it's their right and their idiots. Why are you setting up a false dichotomy to play gotcha?
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by Bay_area_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


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my wife and I took her mother a few years ago, it was fun, prices are high for just about everything. We stayed most of the week on the big island, hotel was in sight of diamond head, down the street from the main drag in waikiki. Hopped over to one of the small islands, kauai for a couple of days, it is much less commercialized and had lots of outdoor stuff to do, if we went back probably stay on one of the small less commercialized islands all week instead of the big island. For us tho it is a long trip over there, like 3 hours hop to AZ then 8-9 hours to fly into hawaii and with our farm operation not sure how we would do it again anytime soon
I don't like flying, and if I were to spend that much time in a plane I would rather experience something more different than Hawaii.

Everybody I know who has been says it is beautiful though.

I love it. The island are all very different. Maui is probably the best for a newb. I prefer Mexico because the flights are so much shorter for me, and everything is so cheap(20:1 peso to dollar), but Hawaii is great. You should go IP,but it is def BYOP.


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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by awesome guy »

Bay_area_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

my wife and I took her mother a few years ago, it was fun, prices are high for just about everything. We stayed most of the week on the big island, hotel was in sight of diamond head, down the street from the main drag in waikiki. Hopped over to one of the small islands, kauai for a couple of days, it is much less commercialized and had lots of outdoor stuff to do, if we went back probably stay on one of the small less commercialized islands all week instead of the big island. For us tho it is a long trip over there, like 3 hours hop to AZ then 8-9 hours to fly into hawaii and with our farm operation not sure how we would do it again anytime soon
I don't like flying, and if I were to spend that much time in a plane I would rather experience something more different than Hawaii.

Everybody I know who has been says it is beautiful though.

I love it. The island are all very different. Maui is probably the best for a newb. I prefer Mexico because the flights are so much shorter for me, and everything is so cheap(20:1 peso to dollar), but Hawaii is great. You should go IP,but it is def BYOP.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I view it as a west coast Caribbean. Same kinda socioeconomic status as west coast people tend to think of Hawaii as cheap and something that can be done every couple years, like east coast people view the Caribbean. And visa-versa, telling a west coast person that you went to the Caribbean sounds hella exotic and expensive. It's all in that extra 4-6 hours flight time and $600 to get across North America. Hawaiian Air is kinda the pits though, they're definitely on island time. On one flight, the cousins were pulling floor panels and making presumably duck tape repairs on the fly. It is a great destination, all of the islands.
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by CFB Apologist »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
They are just trying to get rid of all the people camping on the tiny grass patches next to their beaches in waikiki, multi-million dollar hotels, folks camping out front, great scene
I've never been to Hawaii. Is it worth the trip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

my wife and I took her mother a few years ago, it was fun, prices are high for just about everything. We stayed most of the week on the big island, hotel was in sight of diamond head, down the street from the main drag in waikiki. Hopped over to one of the small islands, kauai for a couple of days, it is much less commercialized and had lots of outdoor stuff to do, if we went back probably stay on one of the small less commercialized islands all week instead of the big island. For us tho it is a long trip over there, like 3 hours hop to AZ then 8-9 hours to fly into hawaii and with our farm operation not sure how we would do it again anytime soon
I don't like flying, and if I were to spend that much time in a plane I would rather experience something more different than Hawaii.

Everybody I know who has been says it is beautiful though.
Agree- going to a beautiful American Island with safe drinking water and no fear of kidnapping is overrated. You should travel to some place more different and exciting, such as: Yemen, Nairobi, Caracas, North Korea, Mumbai, etc. Live a little. Safety, cleanliness, beautiful islands, pristine beaches and clear water are boring
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Re: Hawaii in favor of Universal Basic Income

Post by cwtcr hokie »

VisorBoy wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
VisorBoy wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:Get ready to pay for this:

https://futurism.com/images/universal-b ... utomation/

Innovation and forward-thinking may be Hawaii’s two biggest exports in 2017. Earlier this month, the state earned the distinction of being the first in the U.S. to formally accept the provisions of the Paris Climate Agreement after President Donald Trump decided to withdraw the nation from it, and now, Hawaii is taking the lead in embracing yet another innovative idea: universal basic income (UBI).
Interested to hear the opinions of the states' rights people on this regarding the broader issue: If a state or local gov't passes a statist policy, is that 'okay'? Or, asked another way, is the problem with statist policy in Washington found in the fact that the policy is statist or the fact that it is being applied federally?
I have no problem if a state wants to use its own revenues to create a "basic income", whatever that is. Likewise, if a state wants to fund universal health care insurance for all residents; again that's fine with me as long as they use internal dollars.

The caveat is don't come begging to the federal government for a bailout. Don't come crying to the federal government with an exploding Medicaid roll. When you fail, and you will fail, and when your state is deep in debt, and you will be deep in debt, you're on your own. And if the federal government wants to pull operations out of the state because it's a mess then so be it.
I've come across that opinion before and to be honest, I'm a little baffled by it.

It seems to imply that when a federal statist policy is debated, the issue anti-statists have with it is not the policy itself. Instead, it is the fact that the statist policy applies to a larger in-group than a US state (i.e. it applies nationally). To me, that means that the fundamental disagreement between statism vs. business freedom is, in fact, an argument over the size of the population affected by a given policy, not the increase in statism.

What do you think?
if Hawaii wants to do it great for them, has welfare worked at all or is it a mess and full of abuse, I think you know the answer. All they are saying is give welfare to everyone, personally I would love it , quit working, no getting up in traffic to sit in a windowless office and then fight traffic back home and deal with all the personal stuff on the few hours after working. SIGN ME UP.

The problem is the state does not have the funds and it will be totally abused and the state will have to be bailed out with MY TAX DOLLARS (which I would not be putting in as I would not be working if my state says, here, have welfare forever). But the reality is there is no way the state has the funds to do this on their own.
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