Reality is that neither party does. They act for the better good of their own self interest and for the good of their financial contributors. What you or I back in their home district wants is irrelevant. We're the saps that believed them and put them there and,with gerrymandering and incumbency, will allow them to stay there as long as the gravy train is flowing for them.HokieHam wrote:Which is why I want Dumbs defeated and no Unity with them. They do NOT act in the best interest of the country.133743Hokie wrote:Wrong. It is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want unity in politics -- acting in the best interest of the country.. You can continue to believe and make up anything you want, but that is the core definition for the majority of Americans.USN_Hokie wrote:The last segment you just made up133743Hokie wrote:And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.Major Kong wrote:Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
HokieFanDC wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.Major Kong wrote:Unity sux and overrated.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.
I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.
If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Your comments are, WADR, bewildering. You're seriously trying to tell me that Republicans have been "party first" since Trump was electe....hold on...laughing so hard I can't type...
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
No it's hand wringing over "unity" and the pussification of the American politician.133743Hokie wrote:And that's your problem and one of the main reasons US politics is so f****d up now. Party before country tends to keep the country in a mess like we are right now.
Politicians need to do the job they were elected to do and not worry about what the opposition thinks.
It's the whole foundation of our adversarial system that has become bastardized by caring what the other side thinks.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
You keep saying party. I said people and politicians. GOP and Dem pols aren't monilithic.Major Kong wrote:Phuque them...I don't give a rats ass what the opposition party thinks.HokieFanDC wrote:I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Local, State and Federal offices show a yuge advantage to the GOP...do what you were elected to do.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
You're truly out in left field on this. Acting in the best interest of the country doesn't mean giving up your principles. It doesn't mean removing disagreement and conflict with the other party. It means not being a partisan hack and actually venturing to see what is in the best interest of the country.USN_Hokie wrote:LOL, WTF kind of argument is this? We're just making up words and adding them to definitions so they suit us?133743Hokie wrote:Wrong. It is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want unity in politics -- acting in the best interest of the country.. You can continue to believe and make up anything you want, but that is the core definition for the majority of Americans.USN_Hokie wrote:The last segment you just made up133743Hokie wrote:And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.Major Kong wrote:Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
No shirt - politicians have different ideas of what the best interests of the country are. From its very inception, there's been fierce disagreements over what is best for the country.
That's how we got the bill of rights. Ratification was a nail biter because people had fundamental differences in what they thought was best for the country based on principles they didn't want to compromise. That continues to today.
Your image of a "unified" government is how we get a self-serving, overburdening central government like we see elsewhere. Conflict controls scope creep of the legislature. Think of how many more laws we would have today if there were only a single legislature? This was on purpose because our founders knew there were competing interests.
I never said anything about a unified government. That's you twisting my words to suit your narrative (something you appear to be well known for on this board). I merely talked about the two parties finding common ground in certain areas, as has been done in the past, to unify on those things that are in the best interest of the country.
You seem to think politics is war; winner take all. It's seldom been that way as much as you want to delude yourself about it.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.Major Kong wrote:No it's hand wringing over "unity" and the pussification of the American politician.133743Hokie wrote:And that's your problem and one of the main reasons US politics is so f****d up now. Party before country tends to keep the country in a mess like we are right now.
Politicians need to do the job they were elected to do and not worry about what the opposition thinks.
It's the whole foundation of our adversarial system that has become bastardized by caring what the other side thinks.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Politicians are part of a political party. That political party runs on a platform...that platform is the reason I vote for a particular candidate...not to make nice with the other party.HokieFanDC wrote:You keep saying party. I said people and politicians. GOP and Dem pols aren't monilithic.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
I didn't say anything about party first. But, if you want to talk about party, the Pubs and Dems have been trending more to party first over the past 20 years, than trying to get what their constituents want. Trump has certainly changed that dynamic in general.USN_Hokie wrote:HokieFanDC wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.Major Kong wrote:Unity sux and overrated.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.
I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.
If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Your comments are, WADR, bewildering. You're seriously trying to tell me that Republicans have been "party first" since Trump was electe....hold on...laughing so hard I can't type...
This guy got it right, for about 30 seconds, "We may have our differences, but we do well in times like these to remember that everyone who serves in our nation's capital is here because above all they love our country," Trump said from the White House. "We can all agree that we are blessed to be Americans. That our children deserve to grow up in a nation of safety and peace. That we are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good."
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
then you may want to get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc.......... they have no interest in working with anyone.HokieFanDC wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.Major Kong wrote:Unity sux and overrated.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.
I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.
If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.
I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
I didn't say anything about party first. But, if you want to talk about party, the Pubs and Dems have been trending more to party first over the past 20 years, than trying to get what their constituents want. Trump has certainly changed that dynamic in general.USN_Hokie wrote:HokieFanDC wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.Major Kong wrote:Unity sux and overrated.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.
I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.
If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Your comments are, WADR, bewildering. You're seriously trying to tell me that Republicans have been "party first" since Trump was electe....hold on...laughing so hard I can't type...
This guy got it right, for about 30 seconds, "We may have our differences, but we do well in times like these to remember that everyone who serves in our nation's capital is here because above all they love our country," Trump said from the White House. "We can all agree that we are blessed to be Americans. That our children deserve to grow up in a nation of safety and peace. That we are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good."[/quote]
which is what he is working on, you may want to get the dems to stop the bullshirt investigations tho... just sayin
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Yes, Pelosi, Schumer, and Waters are part of the problem, what's your point?cwtcr hokie wrote:then you may want to get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc.......... they have no interest in working with anyone.HokieFanDC wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.Major Kong wrote:Unity sux and overrated.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.
I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.
If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
In the history of mankind, there has been no bigger justification for cruelty and evil done to our fellow man than "the greater good." Any time you hear a politician crow about "the Greater Good," you should remove them from a position of authority (legally) at the earliest convenience before they get a chance to do some REAL damage. And until they are removed, you should fight them at every turn to keep them from doing harm.133743Hokie wrote:And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.Major Kong wrote:Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican... if you refuse to consider alternatives to the two parties, you support the Status Quo and you are a major part of the problem.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
then you may want to get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc.......... they have no interest in working with anyone.
As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked[/quote]
Yes, Pelosi, Schumer, and Waters are part of the problem, what's your point?[/quote]
its kind of hard to work with people that won't even meet with you and a certified nut case like Waters
As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked[/quote]
Yes, Pelosi, Schumer, and Waters are part of the problem, what's your point?[/quote]
its kind of hard to work with people that won't even meet with you and a certified nut case like Waters
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
I think it's obvious that on this issue "unity" can't be obtained.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
I'm confused by some of the responses by folks whom I thought professed to be L(l)ibertarians here.
What is the ratio of bad to good laws we get out of congress? If you call yourself a libertarian you should probably be answering that you can't divide by zero. So... why the EFF would you want congress to work more efficiently creating laws? You want a good example of a law created under "unity?" Enjoy the Patriot Act. Enjoy the Department of Homeland Security.
Put another way, let's say you disagree with cops writing parking tickets. Two cops are arguing over something which reduces the number of tickets they can write. Why would it make any sense for that person to want the cops more unified in ticket writing?
It is the nature of government to expand. The founders understood this, that's why they designed our legislature to be adversarial.
What is the ratio of bad to good laws we get out of congress? If you call yourself a libertarian you should probably be answering that you can't divide by zero. So... why the EFF would you want congress to work more efficiently creating laws? You want a good example of a law created under "unity?" Enjoy the Patriot Act. Enjoy the Department of Homeland Security.
Put another way, let's say you disagree with cops writing parking tickets. Two cops are arguing over something which reduces the number of tickets they can write. Why would it make any sense for that person to want the cops more unified in ticket writing?
It is the nature of government to expand. The founders understood this, that's why they designed our legislature to be adversarial.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Agree that the partisanship of both sides today precludes either party from ever working with the other (bipartisanship IS the unity being discussed by the way). It's a different time for the legislative branch, and one of the reasons the country is headed for disaster.Major Kong wrote:And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.
I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
When do you think it "started" heading for a disaster?133743Hokie wrote:Agree that the partisanship of both sides today precludes either party from ever working with the other (bipartisanship IS the unity being discussed by the way). It's a different time for the legislative branch, and one of the reasons the country is headed for disaster.Major Kong wrote:And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.
I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
It's a sliding scale. We're too adversarial these days.Major Kong wrote:Unity sux and overrated.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.
I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.
If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Began with Clinton and went full force with W.USN_Hokie wrote:When do you think it "started" heading for a disaster?133743Hokie wrote:Agree that the partisanship of both sides today precludes either party from ever working with the other (bipartisanship IS the unity being discussed by the way). It's a different time for the legislative branch, and one of the reasons the country is headed for disaster.Major Kong wrote:And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.
I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Not at all, but keep thinking thatUSN_Hokie wrote:Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Cap'n considers himself as an ideologue. Cap'n considers himself above partisan politics.133743Hokie wrote:Wrong. It is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want unity in politics -- acting in the best interest of the country.. You can continue to believe and make up anything you want, but that is the core definition for the majority of Americans.USN_Hokie wrote:The last segment you just made up133743Hokie wrote:And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.Major Kong wrote:Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
And although Cap'n doesn't understand the meanings of these words, it shall be done.
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Last edited by ip_law-hokie on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
Not an argument.133743Hokie wrote:Not at all, but keep thinking thatUSN_Hokie wrote:Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk
I've given you the rationale. You disagree. IIWII. I've no desire to beat this topic to death.USN_Hokie wrote:Not an argument.133743Hokie wrote:Not at all, but keep thinking thatUSN_Hokie wrote:Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.