Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

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133743Hokie
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

HokieHam wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:

Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.
The last segment you just made up :?:
Wrong. It is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want unity in politics -- acting in the best interest of the country.. You can continue to believe and make up anything you want, but that is the core definition for the majority of Americans.
Which is why I want Dumbs defeated and no Unity with them. They do NOT act in the best interest of the country.
Reality is that neither party does. They act for the better good of their own self interest and for the good of their financial contributors. What you or I back in their home district wants is irrelevant. We're the saps that believed them and put them there and,with gerrymandering and incumbency, will allow them to stay there as long as the gravy train is flowing for them.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.

I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
Unity sux and overrated.

This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.

If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.

I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
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Your comments are, WADR, bewildering. You're seriously trying to tell me that Republicans have been "party first" since Trump was electe....hold on...laughing so hard I can't type...
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by Major Kong »

133743Hokie wrote:And that's your problem and one of the main reasons US politics is so f****d up now. Party before country tends to keep the country in a mess like we are right now.
No it's hand wringing over "unity" and the pussification of the American politician.

Politicians need to do the job they were elected to do and not worry about what the opposition thinks.

It's the whole foundation of our adversarial system that has become bastardized by caring what the other side thinks.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by HokieFanDC »

Major Kong wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Phuque them...I don't give a rats ass what the opposition party thinks.

Local, State and Federal offices show a yuge advantage to the GOP...do what you were elected to do.
You keep saying party. I said people and politicians. GOP and Dem pols aren't monilithic.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:

Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.
The last segment you just made up :?:
Wrong. It is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want unity in politics -- acting in the best interest of the country.. You can continue to believe and make up anything you want, but that is the core definition for the majority of Americans.
LOL, WTF kind of argument is this? We're just making up words and adding them to definitions so they suit us?

No shirt - politicians have different ideas of what the best interests of the country are. From its very inception, there's been fierce disagreements over what is best for the country.

That's how we got the bill of rights. Ratification was a nail biter because people had fundamental differences in what they thought was best for the country based on principles they didn't want to compromise. That continues to today.

Your image of a "unified" government is how we get a self-serving, overburdening central government like we see elsewhere. Conflict controls scope creep of the legislature. Think of how many more laws we would have today if there were only a single legislature? This was on purpose because our founders knew there were competing interests.
You're truly out in left field on this. Acting in the best interest of the country doesn't mean giving up your principles. It doesn't mean removing disagreement and conflict with the other party. It means not being a partisan hack and actually venturing to see what is in the best interest of the country.

I never said anything about a unified government. That's you twisting my words to suit your narrative (something you appear to be well known for on this board). I merely talked about the two parties finding common ground in certain areas, as has been done in the past, to unify on those things that are in the best interest of the country.

You seem to think politics is war; winner take all. It's seldom been that way as much as you want to delude yourself about it.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

Major Kong wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:And that's your problem and one of the main reasons US politics is so f****d up now. Party before country tends to keep the country in a mess like we are right now.
No it's hand wringing over "unity" and the pussification of the American politician.

Politicians need to do the job they were elected to do and not worry about what the opposition thinks.

It's the whole foundation of our adversarial system that has become bastardized by caring what the other side thinks.
You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by Major Kong »

HokieFanDC wrote:You keep saying party. I said people and politicians. GOP and Dem pols aren't monilithic.
Politicians are part of a political party. That political party runs on a platform...that platform is the reason I vote for a particular candidate...not to make nice with the other party.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.

I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
Unity sux and overrated.

This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.

If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.

I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Image

Your comments are, WADR, bewildering. You're seriously trying to tell me that Republicans have been "party first" since Trump was electe....hold on...laughing so hard I can't type...
I didn't say anything about party first. But, if you want to talk about party, the Pubs and Dems have been trending more to party first over the past 20 years, than trying to get what their constituents want. Trump has certainly changed that dynamic in general.

This guy got it right, for about 30 seconds, "We may have our differences, but we do well in times like these to remember that everyone who serves in our nation's capital is here because above all they love our country," Trump said from the White House. "We can all agree that we are blessed to be Americans. That our children deserve to grow up in a nation of safety and peace. That we are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good."
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by cwtcr hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.

I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
Unity sux and overrated.

This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.

If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.

I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
then you may want to get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc.......... they have no interest in working with anyone.

As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by Major Kong »

133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.

Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.

I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by cwtcr hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.

I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
Unity sux and overrated.

This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.

If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.

I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
Image

Your comments are, WADR, bewildering. You're seriously trying to tell me that Republicans have been "party first" since Trump was electe....hold on...laughing so hard I can't type...
I didn't say anything about party first. But, if you want to talk about party, the Pubs and Dems have been trending more to party first over the past 20 years, than trying to get what their constituents want. Trump has certainly changed that dynamic in general.

This guy got it right, for about 30 seconds, "We may have our differences, but we do well in times like these to remember that everyone who serves in our nation's capital is here because above all they love our country," Trump said from the White House. "We can all agree that we are blessed to be Americans. That our children deserve to grow up in a nation of safety and peace. That we are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good."[/quote]

which is what he is working on, you may want to get the dems to stop the bullshirt investigations tho... just sayin
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by HokieFanDC »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.

I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
Unity sux and overrated.

This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.

If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Your incorrect definition of unity is really a definition of the prototypical politician who has led us to the mess we're in. Someone who won't vigorously defend their principles. Someone who cares more about power and relationships than the people they were elected to represent. Someone who will talk about conservatism behind a podium and then make deals with Obama on the golf course.

I'm talking about politicians who used to go out to dinner with each other to discuss how they could both achieve their goals. Politicians used to be able to leave the chamber and still be friendly, not run to the media and call the other side names.
It's about disagreeing with other people's ideas, but still respecting the differences you have with them. The united part is the part where everyone is united that the work they're doing is best for America, even if you disagree on what is actually best. Today, if two politicians disagree (and lots of regular citizens), they hurl insults every chance they get.
Once you start that level of disrespect, you lose the ability to work with anyone to get something done.
then you may want to get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc.......... they have no interest in working with anyone.

As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked
Yes, Pelosi, Schumer, and Waters are part of the problem, what's your point?
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by Hokie CPA »

133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:

Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.
In the history of mankind, there has been no bigger justification for cruelty and evil done to our fellow man than "the greater good." Any time you hear a politician crow about "the Greater Good," you should remove them from a position of authority (legally) at the earliest convenience before they get a chance to do some REAL damage. And until they are removed, you should fight them at every turn to keep them from doing harm.
I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican... if you refuse to consider alternatives to the two parties, you support the Status Quo and you are a major part of the problem.

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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by cwtcr hokie »

then you may want to get rid of Pelosi, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc.......... they have no interest in working with anyone.

As for ideas, I think it is proven that you have to have givers and when the takers over run the givers the place collapses... So yes I want the republican ideas to be in force. We tried Obummers and the dems spend and give aways for 8 years, the economy sucked[/quote]

Yes, Pelosi, Schumer, and Waters are part of the problem, what's your point?[/quote]

its kind of hard to work with people that won't even meet with you and a certified nut case like Waters
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by Major Kong »

I think it's obvious that on this issue "unity" can't be obtained. :D
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by USN_Hokie »

I'm confused by some of the responses by folks whom I thought professed to be L(l)ibertarians here.

What is the ratio of bad to good laws we get out of congress? If you call yourself a libertarian you should probably be answering that you can't divide by zero. So... why the EFF would you want congress to work more efficiently creating laws? You want a good example of a law created under "unity?" Enjoy the Patriot Act. Enjoy the Department of Homeland Security.

Put another way, let's say you disagree with cops writing parking tickets. Two cops are arguing over something which reduces the number of tickets they can write. Why would it make any sense for that person to want the cops more unified in ticket writing?

It is the nature of government to expand. The founders understood this, that's why they designed our legislature to be adversarial.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

Major Kong wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.

Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.

I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
Agree that the partisanship of both sides today precludes either party from ever working with the other (bipartisanship IS the unity being discussed by the way). It's a different time for the legislative branch, and one of the reasons the country is headed for disaster.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.

Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.

I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
Agree that the partisanship of both sides today precludes either party from ever working with the other (bipartisanship IS the unity being discussed by the way). It's a different time for the legislative branch, and one of the reasons the country is headed for disaster.
When do you think it "started" heading for a disaster?
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by VisorBoy »

Major Kong wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:Sure, I don't care.

I would like to see before I die a politician actually mean it when they ask for unity. I agree with Trump in his rally yesterday on a couple of things. One of the things he mentioned is that if the Republicans came out and offered up a healthcare plan that would cover everyone and everything AND was free, that the dems would block it. I agree with him, it's very frustrating.
Unity sux and overrated.

This is the USA our government is adversarial. Two parties with the potential for more.

If I wanted "unity" I would move to Venezuela, China or Cuba.
It's a sliding scale. We're too adversarial these days.
Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:You may want to look at your history books a little bit more.
And you're conflating bipartisan issues with all encompassing "unity"...screw that in re to unity. You'll never get jackshitt done in today's climate of feelings before law by worrying about unity.

Get to the business of what you were elected to do and the hell with the other side.

I'd say the Dems need to shut up and get out of the way but they'll never shut up, so just do it.
Agree that the partisanship of both sides today precludes either party from ever working with the other (bipartisanship IS the unity being discussed by the way). It's a different time for the legislative branch, and one of the reasons the country is headed for disaster.
When do you think it "started" heading for a disaster?
Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.
Not at all, but keep thinking that
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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by ip_law-hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:That's not what people mean when they say unity. It's not about unity of political thought and principle, but unity in terms of not fighting against each other at every turn.
Nope...stop making up new definitions to old words:

Unity:
1. the state of being united or joined as a whole.
And in terms of politics, "being united or joined as a whole" for the greater good of the country. That last segment of the phrase is what people want and what has been missing.
The last segment you just made up :?:
Wrong. It is EXACTLY what people mean when they say they want unity in politics -- acting in the best interest of the country.. You can continue to believe and make up anything you want, but that is the core definition for the majority of Americans.
Cap'n considers himself as an ideologue. Cap'n considers himself above partisan politics.

And although Cap'n doesn't understand the meanings of these words, it shall be done.


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Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.
Not at all, but keep thinking that
Not an argument.
133743Hokie
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:29 am

Re: Trump on a roll in Iowa speech. Love the plain talk

Post by 133743Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote: Began with Clinton and went full force with W.
Hmm. I think it really went to shirt during FDR. Technically, it started before the ink on the constitution was dry.
Not at all, but keep thinking that
Not an argument.
I've given you the rationale. You disagree. IIWII. I've no desire to beat this topic to death.
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