Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factcheck

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Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factcheck

Post by HokieDan95 »

can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by ip_law-hokie »

HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
I think this guy is in your asshole blind spot.


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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieFanDC »

HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by awesome guy »

HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
That Accosta is FOS
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieDan95 »

HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Except you and I both know that these "fact" check site were really made to make Democrats look good and Republicans look bad. Since they really can't do that in this case, they will just moveon.org it. And that's what they do in almost all cases where they can't either make R's look bad or D's look good. And even in some cases where R's should look good and D's look bad, they will spin (or flat out lie) to make the opposite case.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by Major Kong »

If a GOPer says today is Monday these fact check boobs will check and say well in Sydney it's Tuesday and rate it half true.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieDan95 »

Major Kong wrote:If a GOPer says today is Monday these fact check boobs will check and say well in Sydney it's Tuesday and rate it half true.
I think it was Romney who quoted some positive economic stat that happened on his watch as governor and politifact basically said "yeah that stat is true but we are going to editorialize and not give Rom the credit for it". Even if it had nothing to do with Mitt it's not a "fact check" operation's place to make analysis
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by USN_Hokie »

Politifake and Snopes are too busy "fact checking" minutiae of off-the-cuff Trump comments.

"ZOMG!, he said he spoke to the leader of the boy scouts, but it was really the leader of the boy scouts at the jamboree! Totally different! Pants on fire!"

They're both a joke.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieDan95 wrote:
Major Kong wrote:If a GOPer says today is Monday these fact check boobs will check and say well in Sydney it's Tuesday and rate it half true.
I think it was Romney who quoted some positive economic stat that happened on his watch as governor and politifact basically said "yeah that stat is true but we are going to editorialize and not give Rom the credit for it". Even if it had nothing to do with Mitt it's not a "fact check" operation's place to make analysis
They've done that a number of times.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieJoe »

USN_Hokie wrote:Politifake and Snopes are too busy "fact checking" minutiae of off-the-cuff Trump comments.

"ZOMG!, he said he spoke to the leader of the boy scouts, but it was really the leader of the boy scouts at the jamboree! Totally different! Pants on fire!"

They're both a joke.

Yep. No one with a brain reads that crap without also understanding they might as well read SPLC for accurate political takes.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieFanDC »

HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
It was a poem auctioned to raise money for the pedestal. I think you know this when you say "it was part of it's history before it was constructed" as if that is supposed to mean something. You're guilty of the same crap that politifake / snopes is.

There was no mention of the poem at the dedication of the monument, nor much at all for that matter until democrats thought they could use it as leverage to import more democrat voters.

Acosta and other liberals are either disingenuous or idiots to bring it up in a policy discussion. You should be disagreeing as well if you want to be honest.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by 133743Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
Yes, it was written about the statue. But at the time the statue was about "Liberty". It was proposed and ultimately designed, gifted and constructed as a monument to US independence; a shared sacrifice between the US and France. It was not about immigrants. It was only after the fact, after the statue was erected and the poem inscribed at the base, and immigrants began coming by it on their way to Ellis Island, that people began to associate the statue and the poem with "welcoming immigrants".
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieDan95 »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
It was a poem auctioned to raise money for the pedestal. I think you know this when you say "it was part of it's history before it was constructed" as if that is supposed to mean something. You're guilty of the same crap that politifake / snopes is.

There was no mention of the poem at the dedication of the monument, nor much at all for that matter until democrats thought they could use it as leverage to import more democrat voters.

Acosta and other liberals are either disingenuous or idiots to bring it up in a policy discussion. You should be disagreeing as well if you want to be honest.
Yes regardless of the history, poems on statues are not policy. Not to mention when do journalists have policy debates with WH spokemen? aren't they just supposed to dig for facts?
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

You'd have to be a real tard to think our national immigration policy is based on that poem. The statue only became a symbol of immigration because it was one of the first monuments immigrants saw when coming to Ellis Island. But its a symbol of Liberty. Its the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Immigration."

But of course, leave it to Democrats to take something and completely twist its meaning to be something completely unrelated with its original intent.

==============================================================
Paul Auster wrote that "Bartholdi's gigantic effigy was originally intended as a monument to the principles of international republicanism, but 'The New Colossus' reinvented the statue's purpose, turning Liberty into a welcoming mother, a symbol of hope to the outcasts and downtrodden of the world."[11]

John T. Cunningham wrote that "The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch and the shining face, heading toward Ellis Island. However, it was [Lazarus's poem] that permanently stamped on Miss Liberty the role of unofficial greeter of incoming immigrants."[12]

The poem has entered the political realm. It was quoted in John F. Kennedy's book A Nation of Immigrants (1958)[13] as well as a 2010 political speech by President Obama advocating immigration policy reform.[14] On August 2nd, 2017, the poem and its importance to the Statue of Liberty's symbolism and thus the effect on American immigration policy, was debated in a White House briefing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by awesome guy »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:You'd have to be a real tard to think our national immigration policy is based on that poem. The statue only became a symbol of immigration because it was one of the first monuments immigrants saw when coming to Ellis Island. But its a symbol of Liberty. Its the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Immigration."

But of course, leave it to Democrats to take something and completely twist its meaning to be something completely unrelated with its original intent.

==============================================================
Paul Auster wrote that "Bartholdi's gigantic effigy was originally intended as a monument to the principles of international republicanism, but 'The New Colossus' reinvented the statue's purpose, turning Liberty into a welcoming mother, a symbol of hope to the outcasts and downtrodden of the world."[11]

John T. Cunningham wrote that "The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch and the shining face, heading toward Ellis Island. However, it was [Lazarus's poem] that permanently stamped on Miss Liberty the role of unofficial greeter of incoming immigrants."[12]

The poem has entered the political realm. It was quoted in John F. Kennedy's book A Nation of Immigrants (1958)[13] as well as a 2010 political speech by President Obama advocating immigration policy reform.[14] On August 2nd, 2017, the poem and its importance to the Statue of Liberty's symbolism and thus the effect on American immigration policy, was debated in a White House briefing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieFanDC »

133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
Yes, it was written about the statue. But at the time the statue was about "Liberty". It was proposed and ultimately designed, gifted and constructed as a monument to US independence; a shared sacrifice between the US and France. It was not about immigrants. It was only after the fact, after the statue was erected and the poem inscribed at the base, and immigrants began coming by it on their way to Ellis Island, that people began to associate the statue and the poem with "welcoming immigrants".
At least you seem to agree that the Statue of Liberty and the poem are linked to the welcoming of immigrants.
As for the timeline, between the time of the unveiling of the staute, and 1903, millions of immigrants came to the US and passed by that Statue of Liberty. It is one of the reason the Colossus poem was attached to the statue. By 1903, the Statue was already a major symbol of immigration. So, for the last 100+ years, the Statue has been meaningful for immigrants.
To try and minimize the link between the Statue and immigration b/c the Colossus wasn't part of it until 1903, is as disingenuous as you can get.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:can I find anything regarding Stephen Miller's comments about the Statue of Liberty poem in the Accosta exchange

Is this some kind of bias by omission reporting?
What do you think needs to be reported?
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
Yes, it was written about the statue. But at the time the statue was about "Liberty". It was proposed and ultimately designed, gifted and constructed as a monument to US independence; a shared sacrifice between the US and France. It was not about immigrants. It was only after the fact, after the statue was erected and the poem inscribed at the base, and immigrants began coming by it on their way to Ellis Island, that people began to associate the statue and the poem with "welcoming immigrants".
At least you seem to agree that the Statue of Liberty and the poem are linked to the welcoming of immigrants.
As for the timeline, between the time of the unveiling of the staute, and 1903, millions of immigrants came to the US and passed by that Statue of Liberty. It is one of the reason the Colossus poem was attached to the statue. By 1903, the Statue was already a major symbol of immigration. So, for the last 100+ years, the Statue has been meaningful for immigrants.
To try and minimize the link between the Statue and immigration b/c the Colossus wasn't part of it until 1903, is as disingenuous as you can get.
Since we're just making emotional/"feelz" non-arguments - funny it's called the Statue of Liberty and not the Statue of Immigration.

Yeah, a lot of people sailed by it - so what? A lot (or even most, depending on the period) sailed right back.

As for the rest of your post, you're (purposely) trying to conflate the statue with the poem riveted inside pedestal which nobody cared that much about until Democrats made a big deal about it to import new democrat voters in the 60's (see a trend here?).

A poem has no precedent in a policy discussion. Will you even agree with that?
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
HokieDan95 wrote:
Accosta disputed Miller's account of the history of the poem, calling it revisionism. I thought these political fact check sites were made for moments like this. What disqualifies it?
Miller was trying to disassociate the poem from the statue. That's utterly ridiculous. The poem is about the Statue of Liberty and was part of it's history before it was constructed.
Yes, it was written about the statue. But at the time the statue was about "Liberty". It was proposed and ultimately designed, gifted and constructed as a monument to US independence; a shared sacrifice between the US and France. It was not about immigrants. It was only after the fact, after the statue was erected and the poem inscribed at the base, and immigrants began coming by it on their way to Ellis Island, that people began to associate the statue and the poem with "welcoming immigrants".
At least you seem to agree that the Statue of Liberty and the poem are linked to the welcoming of immigrants.
As for the timeline, between the time of the unveiling of the staute, and 1903, millions of immigrants came to the US and passed by that Statue of Liberty. It is one of the reason the Colossus poem was attached to the statue. By 1903, the Statue was already a major symbol of immigration. So, for the last 100+ years, the Statue has been meaningful for immigrants.
To try and minimize the link between the Statue and immigration b/c the Colossus wasn't part of it until 1903, is as disingenuous as you can get.
Since we're just making emotional/"feelz" non-arguments - funny it's called the Statue of Liberty and not the Statue of Immigration.

Yeah, a lot of people sailed by it - so what? A lot (or even most, depending on the period) sailed right back.

As for the rest of your post, you're (purposely) trying to conflate the statue with the poem riveted inside pedestal which nobody cared that much about until Democrats made a big deal about it to import new democrat voters in the 60's (see a trend here?).

A poem has no precedent in a policy discussion. Will you even agree with that?
The symbolic meaning of the Statue of Liberty, to immigrants, is real, and is based on the feelings of the immigrants that passed by the Statue and took great joy in seeing it as they came to America. To belittle the emotional symbolism of the Statue, whether you want to call it a symbol of liberty, or immigration, is ignoring the whole point of a freaking statue.

The Statue of Liberty was a symbol to immigrants long before the 1960s, and that's the important point. And while I agree that the poem is not meaningful in a policy discussion, the immigration policies that have brought millions of people past the Statue of Liberty, is meaningful, and some of the elements in the poem are in line with past immigration policy.

This is yet another example of the WH putting together a policy that has merit and doing a shite job of selling the good points. Simple truth is that we're a technology driven society that has little need for increasing the manual/unskilled labor pool, but could benefit from more people who can do technology jobs. And there are lots of people all over the world who would be good immigrants to help that need. And in the early 1900s, and maybe even into the '70s, the number of people in the world who spoke their native language, and English, was probably relatively small. Today, that number is pretty high. There is a large pool of english speaking immigrants to choose from, so why not give them priority, rather than burdening our school systems with more ESL learners?

I think much of the policy is good. I think Miller presented it horribly.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by USN_Hokie »

You do an excellent job of agreeing with all my points in the most long-winded and combative way possible.

You disagree on the "presenting" of it based on false pretenses, but we're making progress otherwise. :)
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:You do an excellent job of agreeing with all my points in the most long-winded and combative way possible.

You disagree on the "presenting" of it based on false pretenses, but we're making progress otherwise. :)
Sure, if you say so. If you think I was being combative, I hope you were never engaged in actual combat







Now, that was being combative. :)
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:You do an excellent job of agreeing with all my points in the most long-winded and combative way possible.

You disagree on the "presenting" of it based on false pretenses, but we're making progress otherwise. :)
Sure, if you say so. If you think I was being combative, I hope you were never engaged in actual combat







Now, that was being combative. :)
Nah...more like passive combative.

I've actually been shot at while deployed, which is not something most modern day Navy guys can claim. Won't call it combat, though I do have multiple campaign ribbons.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by Major Kong »

USN_Hokie wrote:Nah...more like passive combative.

I've actually been shot at while deployed, which is not something most modern day Navy guys can claim. Won't call it combat, though I do have multiple campaign ribbons.
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Re: Its been about a week and on neither politifact or factc

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:You do an excellent job of agreeing with all my points in the most long-winded and combative way possible.

You disagree on the "presenting" of it based on false pretenses, but we're making progress otherwise. :)
Sure, if you say so. If you think I was being combative, I hope you were never engaged in actual combat







Now, that was being combative. :)
Nah...more like passive combative.

I've actually been shot at while deployed, which is not something most modern day Navy guys can claim. Won't call it combat, though I do have multiple campaign ribbons.
That's pretty cool. Color me impressed.
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