Massive electric fraud

[awesome guy]

Time to pull this leech off the government.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/e ... rt-already

[133743Hokie]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

[HokieJoe]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

[133743Hokie]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

She says the USG is subsidizing SpaceX. That is not true.

She has a bone to pick about electric vehicle subsidies. Fine. Interesting that there is no mention of the US car makers getting subsidies for their electric cars. No mention of the tax breaks and subsidies for hybrid vehicles in their early stages.

She never mentions that federal dollars have funded private and university R&D forever.

Bottom line is she doesn't like Elon Musk and has focused in on him with a click bait article.

[HokieJoe]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

She says the USG is subsidizing SpaceX. That is not true.

She has a bone to pick about electric vehicle subsidies. Fine. Interesting that there is no mention of the US car makers getting subsidies for their electric cars. No mention of the tax breaks and subsidies for hybrid vehicles in their early stages.

She never mentions that federal dollars have funded private and university R&D forever.

Bottom line is she doesn't like Elon Musk and has focused in on him with a click bait article.

The difference is, Toyota would still be in business without Prius. GM is different because of their legacy of mismanagement and crushing labor issues; but very little of their business depends upon the Volt.

[HokieFanDC]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

[awesome guy]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious
reason.

[Hokie CPA]

Warren Buffet is welcome to give as much as he likes to the US government. If he's so concerned, he should give more than the minimum.

[awesome guy]

Warren Buffet is welcome to give as much as he likes to the US government. If he's so concerned, he should give more than the minimum.

I'm pointing out the stupidity in DC's retort. "But, but, but he says the freebies should end!"[While having the unexercised ability to end them himself]

[USN_Hokie]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious
reason.

Yep. The $7500 taxpayer subsidy for $100k muskmobiles is his bread and butter. I'll give him credit, though - he's excellent at marketing.

[CFB Apologist]

The author is dumbing-down and using 4th grade Florida Hokie logic to try to make her point, which is unfortunate. The "Uber rich guy gets government help and doesn't need it/can afford doing without" is a terrible big picture economic argument. It's like Floho's famous "straight people also get STDs, so aids is not overwhelmingly present in the gay community argument" - 4th grade, tops..

[133743Hokie]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious
reason.

Yep. The $7500 taxpayer subsidy for $100k muskmobiles is his bread and butter. I'll give him credit, though - he's excellent at marketing.

The new model 3 is $35k based price, about $60k with all of the options. It is the first care for the general populace.

[133743Hokie]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

She says the USG is subsidizing SpaceX. That is not true.

She has a bone to pick about electric vehicle subsidies. Fine. Interesting that there is no mention of the US car makers getting subsidies for their electric cars. No mention of the tax breaks and subsidies for hybrid vehicles in their early stages.

She never mentions that federal dollars have funded private and university R&D forever.

Bottom line is she doesn't like Elon Musk and has focused in on him with a click bait article.

The difference is, Toyota would still be in business without Prius. GM is different because of their legacy of mismanagement and crushing labor issues; but very little of their business depends upon the Volt.

They use those cars to help improve their corporate fuel efficiency numbers, so yes they matter.

[BigDave]

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious reason.

I'd love to achieve a high level of success, and be the best in my field, and then, only once I have achieved that level of success, have the government get rid of whatever subsidies I relied on to get there and tax my competitors out of existence.

Yes, the car subsidies should be done away with, but the problem is, Musk has already built his empire on them. He would be thrilled for nobody else to have the same subsidies that he got.

[awesome guy]

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious reason.

I'd love to achieve a high level of success, and be the best in my field, and then, only once I have achieved that level of success, have the government get rid of whatever subsidies I relied on to get there and tax my competitors out of existence.

Yes, the car subsidies should be done away with, but the problem is, Musk has already built his empire on them. He would be thrilled for nobody else to have the same subsidies that he got.

He is just talking, obviously, as he can not obtain the various government funding sources that he has. 5 billion in tax payer money calls him a liar.

[133743Hokie]

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious reason.

I'd love to achieve a high level of success, and be the best in my field, and then, only once I have achieved that level of success, have the government get rid of whatever subsidies I relied on to get there and tax my competitors out of existence.

Yes, the car subsidies should be done away with, but the problem is, Musk has already built his empire on them. He would be thrilled for nobody else to have the same subsidies that he got.

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

[BigDave]

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

According to Wikipedia, he passed 200K sales in March 2017. At $7500 each, that's $1.5 billion, or, one-third of the market cap of Tesla.

[133743Hokie]

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

According to Wikipedia, he passed 200K sales in March 2017. At $7500 each, that's $1.5 billion, or, one-third of the market cap of Tesla.

The $7,500 is a tax credit for the purchaser, not a payment to the car manufacturer. Tesla doesn't see the $7,500. The tax credit does make the purchase of the car more attractive, hence why people see the inequity in the subsidy for EVs.

[BigDave]

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

According to Wikipedia, he passed 200K sales in March 2017. At $7500 each, that's $1.5 billion, or, one-third of the market cap of Tesla.

The $7,500 is a tax credit for the purchaser, not a payment to the car manufacturer. Tesla doesn't see the $7,500. The tax credit does make the purchase of the car more attractive, hence why people see the inequity in the subsidy for EVs.

If the government offered a $1 credit to buy Snickers candy bars, Mars may not see that DIRECTLY, but they could raise their price by $1 and anyone who could afford it before can still afford it. So they would see it INDIRECTLY. It's the same thing with Tesla - they don't get it DIRECTLY, but they can charge more so they get it INDIRECTLY.

[USN_Hokie]

Hatchet job piece from a Tea Party lady that frankly doesn't know a thing about what she is writing about.

Please do offer details on where she is wrong. That $7500 subsidy should be shiite-canned. Yesterday.

Musk has asked the government to get rid of ZEV subsidies. Anyone writing or talking about Musk and complaining about ZEV subsidies should know that.

Warren Buffett says to tax him more yet that never happens for some mysterious
reason.

Yep. The $7500 taxpayer subsidy for $100k muskmobiles is his bread and butter. I'll give him credit, though - he's excellent at marketing.

The new model 3 is $35k based price, about $60k with all of the options. It is the first care for the general populace.

Right. How many of those have been delivered?

When is the subsidy set to expire?

[USN_Hokie]

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

According to Wikipedia, he passed 200K sales in March 2017. At $7500 each, that's $1.5 billion, or, one-third of the market cap of Tesla.

The $7,500 is a tax credit for the purchaser, not a payment to the car manufacturer. Tesla doesn't see the $7,500. The tax credit does make the purchase of the car more attractive, hence why people see the inequity in the subsidy for EVs.

If the government offered a $1 credit to buy Snickers candy bars, Mars may not see that DIRECTLY, but they could raise their price by $1 and anyone who could afford it before can still afford it. So they would see it INDIRECTLY. It's the same thing with Tesla - they don't get it DIRECTLY, but they can charge more so they get it INDIRECTLY.

Yep. The seller sees the benefit no matter how you slice it up.

[133743Hokie]

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

According to Wikipedia, he passed 200K sales in March 2017. At $7500 each, that's $1.5 billion, or, one-third of the market cap of Tesla.

The $7,500 is a tax credit for the purchaser, not a payment to the car manufacturer. Tesla doesn't see the $7,500. The tax credit does make the purchase of the car more attractive, hence why people see the inequity in the subsidy for EVs.

If the government offered a $1 credit to buy Snickers candy bars, Mars may not see that DIRECTLY, but they could raise their price by $1 and anyone who could afford it before can still afford it. So they would see it INDIRECTLY. It's the same thing with Tesla - they don't get it DIRECTLY, but they can charge more so they get it INDIRECTLY.

What? You think Tesla jacks up the price of their car because the buyer gets a tax credit? That's nonsense! They are not going to do anything to reduce their exposure to the max number of potential customers. Why do you think they developed the model 3?

[awesome guy]

He hasn't built Tesla on subsidies! That's pure nonsense. He hasn't even sold enough vehicles yet to even have that make an impact on the business. You think he believes he has surpassed every other EV manufacturer and wants to get rid of the subsidy now to hold them back? Nonsense.

According to Wikipedia, he passed 200K sales in March 2017. At $7500 each, that's $1.5 billion, or, one-third of the market cap of Tesla.

The $7,500 is a tax credit for the purchaser, not a payment to the car manufacturer. Tesla doesn't see the $7,500. The tax credit does make the purchase of the car more attractive, hence why people see the inequity in the subsidy for EVs.

If the government offered a $1 credit to buy Snickers candy bars, Mars may not see that DIRECTLY, but they could raise their price by $1 and anyone who could afford it before can still afford it. So they would see it INDIRECTLY. It's the same thing with Tesla - they don't get it DIRECTLY, but they can charge more so they get it INDIRECTLY.

What? You think Tesla jacks up the price of their car because the buyer gets a tax credit? That's nonsense! They are not going to do anything to reduce their exposure to the max number of potential customers. Why do you think they developed the model 3?

You can't be serious, this is basic economics.

[BigDave]

What? You think Tesla jacks up the price of their car because the buyer gets a tax credit? That's nonsense! They are not going to do anything to reduce their exposure to the max number of potential customers. Why do you think they developed the model 3?

Huh?

I am selling widgets. I did a marketing study and figured out I can maximize my profit by selling them for $10. If I sell them for more than $10, then I make more money per widget, but fewer people are going to be able to afford to buy them, so I make less money overall. If I sell them for less than $10, then I may sell more widgets, but the profit is too low for it to be worthwhile. So $10 gives me the most profit.

All of a sudden, the government comes along and gives a $2 rebate to anyone who buys my widget. Now, I can raise my price to $12 and every single person who could afford it at $10 could still afford it at $12. Or, maybe I leave the price at $10, but a whole lot more people who couldn't have afforded it at $10 can now afford it for $8. Either way, I make more money as a result of the subsidy.

No, I have no idea whether Musk raised his price over what it otherwise would have been as a result of the subsidy, or if he just left it where it otherwise would have been and sold more cars. Either way, he benefited from it.

[USN_Hokie]

What? You think Tesla jacks up the price of their car because the buyer gets a tax credit? That's nonsense! They are not going to do anything to reduce their exposure to the max number of potential customers. Why do you think they developed the model 3?