The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

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The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by nolanvt »

I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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Right, because the Atlantic is going to give us a non-biased opinion on Lee. If he was so terrible, then why did Lincoln offer him the command of the Federal forces prior to the war between the states?

But of course we all know you guys have to engage in revisionist history to justify your jihad against historical monuments. I'm pretty sure the Atlantic could write a piece to make Thomas Jefferson look like the devil incarnate if they wanted to in order to advance their agenda.
Because of his reputation as one of the finest officers in the United States Army, Abraham Lincoln offered Lee the command of the Federal forces in April 1861. Lee declined and tendered his resignation from the army when the state of Virginia seceded on April 17, arguing that he could not fight against his own people. Instead, he accepted a general’s commission in the newly formed Confederate Army. His first military engagement of the Civil War occurred at Cheat Mountain, Virginia (now West Virginia) on September 11, 1861. It was a Union victory but Lee’s reputation withstood the public criticism that followed. He served as military advisor to President Jefferson Davis until June 1862 when he was given command of the wounded General Joseph E. Johnston's embattled army on the Virginia peninsula.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/biographies/robert-e-lee
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by Attila T Hun »

Oh please..We could post the same type hit jobs on Martin Luther King and what a myth he was....So f-ing what?
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

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Koo koo
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by nolanvt »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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Right, because the Atlantic is going to give us a non-biased opinion on Lee. If he was so terrible, then why did Lincoln offer him the command of the Federal forces prior to the war between the states?

But of course we all know you guys have to engage in revisionist history to justify your jihad against historical monuments. I'm pretty sure the Atlantic could write a piece to make Thomas Jefferson look like the devil incarnate if they wanted to in order to advance their agenda.
Because of his reputation as one of the finest officers in the United States Army, Abraham Lincoln offered Lee the command of the Federal forces in April 1861. Lee declined and tendered his resignation from the army when the state of Virginia seceded on April 17, arguing that he could not fight against his own people. Instead, he accepted a general’s commission in the newly formed Confederate Army. His first military engagement of the Civil War occurred at Cheat Mountain, Virginia (now West Virginia) on September 11, 1861. It was a Union victory but Lee’s reputation withstood the public criticism that followed. He served as military advisor to President Jefferson Davis until June 1862 when he was given command of the wounded General Joseph E. Johnston's embattled army on the Virginia peninsula.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/biographies/robert-e-lee
Lincoln offered Lee because his primary motivation was preserving the Union, not necessarily ending slavery. Emancipation became a rallying cry for the Union later on in the war.

Slavery was a primary reason the southern states seceded and is supported from their secession documents.


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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by nolanvt »

awesome guy wrote:Koo koo
Myth-busting is met with great resistance, yes. It's like trying to tell PSU alum in Happy Valley that JoePa was a bad guy.


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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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Right, because the Atlantic is going to give us a non-biased opinion on Lee. If he was so terrible, then why did Lincoln offer him the command of the Federal forces prior to the war between the states?

But of course we all know you guys have to engage in revisionist history to justify your jihad against historical monuments. I'm pretty sure the Atlantic could write a piece to make Thomas Jefferson look like the devil incarnate if they wanted to in order to advance their agenda.
Because of his reputation as one of the finest officers in the United States Army, Abraham Lincoln offered Lee the command of the Federal forces in April 1861. Lee declined and tendered his resignation from the army when the state of Virginia seceded on April 17, arguing that he could not fight against his own people. Instead, he accepted a general’s commission in the newly formed Confederate Army. His first military engagement of the Civil War occurred at Cheat Mountain, Virginia (now West Virginia) on September 11, 1861. It was a Union victory but Lee’s reputation withstood the public criticism that followed. He served as military advisor to President Jefferson Davis until June 1862 when he was given command of the wounded General Joseph E. Johnston's embattled army on the Virginia peninsula.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/biographies/robert-e-lee
Lincoln offered Lee because his primary motivation was preserving the Union, not necessarily ending slavery. Emancipation became a rallying cry for the Union later on in the war.

Slavery was a primary reason the southern states seceded and is supported from their secession documents.


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Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by nolanvt »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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Right, because the Atlantic is going to give us a non-biased opinion on Lee. If he was so terrible, then why did Lincoln offer him the command of the Federal forces prior to the war between the states?

But of course we all know you guys have to engage in revisionist history to justify your jihad against historical monuments. I'm pretty sure the Atlantic could write a piece to make Thomas Jefferson look like the devil incarnate if they wanted to in order to advance their agenda.
Because of his reputation as one of the finest officers in the United States Army, Abraham Lincoln offered Lee the command of the Federal forces in April 1861. Lee declined and tendered his resignation from the army when the state of Virginia seceded on April 17, arguing that he could not fight against his own people. Instead, he accepted a general’s commission in the newly formed Confederate Army. His first military engagement of the Civil War occurred at Cheat Mountain, Virginia (now West Virginia) on September 11, 1861. It was a Union victory but Lee’s reputation withstood the public criticism that followed. He served as military advisor to President Jefferson Davis until June 1862 when he was given command of the wounded General Joseph E. Johnston's embattled army on the Virginia peninsula.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/biographies/robert-e-lee
Lincoln offered Lee because his primary motivation was preserving the Union, not necessarily ending slavery. Emancipation became a rallying cry for the Union later on in the war.

Slavery was a primary reason the southern states seceded and is supported from their secession documents.


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Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
I just said that for the Union, slavery wasn't a driving force behind the Union at first, but slavery was a primary reason southern states seceded. It even said so in their Articles of Secession.


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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
I just said that for the Union, slavery wasn't a driving force behind the Union at first, but slavery was a primary reason southern states seceded. It even said so in their Articles of Secession.


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If the north was not fighting to end slavery, then why would the south be fighting to preserve it?
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by BigDave »

Article summary: he fought for the Confederacy, therefore he was evil
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by CFB Apologist »

BigDave wrote:Article summary: he fought for the Confederacy, therefore he was evil
Yep.. and Nolan is way out of his league arguing on this topic.
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by CFB Apologist »

nolanvt wrote:
awesome guy wrote:Koo koo
Myth-busting is met with great resistance, yes. It's like trying to tell PSU alum in Happy Valley that JoePa was a bad guy.


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You have busted zero myths..that is your problem. American's owned slaves. Yes they did. It was horrible looking back on it, millions of young civil war soldiers died for it- the most blood shed in American history- more than Vietnam (a 10 year "war") and Korea combined. Americans- including white southern redneck deplorables in your precious little communist eyes- ended it with policy, common sense and progressed forward. If you think only black politicians or "liberals" fought to end slavery and progress america beyond the 1840's, you are a fool. Robert E Lee was more of a noble man than you and Michael Sam and your gay cake couple will ever be. Sorry, that is no "myth". He fought for his country for 30 years, his leadership and battle tactics saved thousands of lives, and he was an abolitionist- but you will ignore that anyway. So you want his statue taken down- will that make you feel better? will that improve your kids lives? will that end racism in America? will people in Baltimore stop murdering each other? will silicon valley be led by all black and muslim CEO's? If we take down evil Robert E Lee's statue? I'm sure it will. I'm sure everything in america will be PERFECT. Chicago's gangland will be non violent because there will be no racist whitey to keep them down. LA's jails will be less populated because racist Robert E Lee's statue was toppled in Charlottesville. Single parent poor black births will decrease if we get rid of racist robert e lee. You communists are hilarious.
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by nolanvt »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
I just said that for the Union, slavery wasn't a driving force behind the Union at first, but slavery was a primary reason southern states seceded. It even said so in their Articles of Secession.


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If the north was not fighting to end slavery, then why would the south be fighting to preserve it?
Because of the scrutiny of slavery and the fears that it was going to be abolished. That's why they specifically cited slavery in the Articles of Secession.


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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by nolanvt »

5 points to CFB for bringing Michael Sam into a thread that's not remotely about him. [emoji106]


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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by awesome guy »

nolanvt wrote:
awesome guy wrote:Koo koo
Myth-busting is met with great resistance, yes. It's like trying to tell PSU alum in Happy Valley that JoePa was a bad guy.


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It's like saying 9-11 was an inside job. Koo koo
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
I just said that for the Union, slavery wasn't a driving force behind the Union at first, but slavery was a primary reason southern states seceded. It even said so in their Articles of Secession.


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If the north was not fighting to end slavery, then why would the south be fighting to preserve it?
Because of the scrutiny of slavery and the fears that it was going to be abolished. That's why they specifically cited slavery in the Articles of Secession.


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So just so we're clear, you're saying that thousands of southern men (most of which did not own slaves) fought and died in a war for 2 years (prior to the emancipation proclamation) to defend an institution (slavery) even though the north had no stated goals of ending it? And that this was the primary reason for the start of the war? Does that really make any sense to you?
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by CFB Apologist »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
I just said that for the Union, slavery wasn't a driving force behind the Union at first, but slavery was a primary reason southern states seceded. It even said so in their Articles of Secession.


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If the north was not fighting to end slavery, then why would the south be fighting to preserve it?
Because of the scrutiny of slavery and the fears that it was going to be abolished. That's why they specifically cited slavery in the Articles of Secession.


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So just so we're clear, you're saying that thousands of southern men (most of which did not own slaves) fought and died in a war for 2 years (prior to the emancipation proclamation) to defend an institution (slavery) even though the north had no stated goals of ending it? And that this was the primary reason for the start of the war? Does that really make any sense to you?
No, it's nolan... whatever minority/liberal/communist topic is at the top of twitter, he will support it, argue for it, and be out of his league in terms of the facts. When "gay" was hot, it was all he talked about. He wants to "feel" good about the communist water cooler topic du jour
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by cwtcr hokie »

nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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yes revisionist history is required to justify the crap occurring now
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by Hokie CPA »

In fairness to nolan, he didn't say slavery was the reason for the war. He correctly said it was the reason for secession. The war was started because Lincoln invaded the sovereign Confederacy over some misguided perception that somehow states couldn't leave this club they had voluntarily joined, even though every state believed in the right to secession. Massachusetts had even advocated its own secession about 40 years earlier. And these CalExit fruitcakes still think they have a right to secede.

The War Between the States was started primarily because Lincoln didn't want to be the guy who broke the United States.
I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican... if you refuse to consider alternatives to the two parties, you support the Status Quo and you are a major part of the problem.

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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by cwtcr hokie »

nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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Right, because the Atlantic is going to give us a non-biased opinion on Lee. If he was so terrible, then why did Lincoln offer him the command of the Federal forces prior to the war between the states?

But of course we all know you guys have to engage in revisionist history to justify your jihad against historical monuments. I'm pretty sure the Atlantic could write a piece to make Thomas Jefferson look like the devil incarnate if they wanted to in order to advance their agenda.
Because of his reputation as one of the finest officers in the United States Army, Abraham Lincoln offered Lee the command of the Federal forces in April 1861. Lee declined and tendered his resignation from the army when the state of Virginia seceded on April 17, arguing that he could not fight against his own people. Instead, he accepted a general’s commission in the newly formed Confederate Army. His first military engagement of the Civil War occurred at Cheat Mountain, Virginia (now West Virginia) on September 11, 1861. It was a Union victory but Lee’s reputation withstood the public criticism that followed. He served as military advisor to President Jefferson Davis until June 1862 when he was given command of the wounded General Joseph E. Johnston's embattled army on the Virginia peninsula.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/biographies/robert-e-lee
Lincoln offered Lee because his primary motivation was preserving the Union, not necessarily ending slavery. Emancipation became a rallying cry for the Union later on in the war.

Slavery was a primary reason the southern states seceded and is supported from their secession documents.


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Remind me again, when did the war begin and when was the emancipation proclamation written?
I just said that for the Union, slavery wasn't a driving force behind the Union at first, but slavery was a primary reason southern states seceded. It even said so in their Articles of Secession.


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revisionist history is awesome!!!! The war was about economics mostly, check with the experts, VT has one
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

Hokie CPA wrote:In fairness to nolan, he didn't say slavery was the reason for the war. He correctly said it was the reason for secession. The war was started because Lincoln invaded the sovereign Confederacy over some misguided perception that somehow states couldn't leave this club they had voluntarily joined, even though every state believed in the right to secession. Massachusetts had even advocated its own secession about 40 years earlier. And these CalExit fruitcakes still think they have a right to secede.

The War Between the States was started primarily because Lincoln didn't want to be the guy who broke the United States.
Well he said it was the primary reason for secession.
nolanvt wrote: Slavery was a primary reason the southern states seceded and is supported from their secession documents.
I'm still not clear why the states felt they needed to secede to preserve slavery when the north was not trying to end it (until later in the war). In Lincoln's own words:
My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union
http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lin ... reeley.htm

Ending slavery was not an objective of the war when it started.
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

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nolanvt wrote:I understand this will go against what some of you all learned in Virginia public schools, but the facts cited in this piece should make anyone have second thoughts on some of the myths perpetuated about Gen. Lee as a person.

http://theatln.tc/2fDOn38


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The Atlantic? LOL. Yeah.
Interesting you're willing to call their citations from lesser historians "fact", relying on their interpretations, over other historians 180* opposite, and calling their interpretations "myth"

Read Freeman's 4-volume biography and get back to us. That "myth" won him a Pulitzer, btw.

Of course, you're just trolling.

You still working on my Nazi question? Goodness. If you couldn't handle THAT, there is no way you're mentally equipped to discuss 1860s history.
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by RiverguyVT »

CFB Apologist wrote:
BigDave wrote:Article summary: he fought for the Confederacy, therefore he was evil
Yep.. and Nolan is way out of his league arguing on this any topic.
FTFY
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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by ip_law-hokie »

Hokie CPA wrote:In fairness to nolan, he didn't say slavery was the reason for the war. He correctly said it was the reason for secession. The war was started because Lincoln invaded the sovereign Confederacy over some misguided perception that somehow states couldn't leave this club they had voluntarily joined, even though every state believed in the right to secession. Massachusetts had even advocated its own secession about 40 years earlier. And these CalExit fruitcakes still think they have a right to secede.

The War Between the States was started primarily because Lincoln didn't want to be the guy who broke the United States.
Robert E. Lee was given a choice to stand with his country or quit and join the opposition. He quit. He lost. And he was a traitor.

Losers still follow him today.



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Re: The Myth of the Kindly Gen. Lee

Post by awesome guy »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
Hokie CPA wrote:In fairness to nolan, he didn't say slavery was the reason for the war. He correctly said it was the reason for secession. The war was started because Lincoln invaded the sovereign Confederacy over some misguided perception that somehow states couldn't leave this club they had voluntarily joined, even though every state believed in the right to secession. Massachusetts had even advocated its own secession about 40 years earlier. And these CalExit fruitcakes still think they have a right to secede.

The War Between the States was started primarily because Lincoln didn't want to be the guy who broke the United States.
Robert E. Lee was given a choice to stand with his country or quit and join the opposition. He quit. He lost. And he was a traitor.

Losers still follow him today.



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Comply or be trampled, right comrade?
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