NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC president

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UpstateSCHokie
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NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC president

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

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Unhinged lunatics.
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I just don't get how supposedly once reasonable people like Todd can be so slanted in their moderating of a discussion like this. The one sided comments. The leading questions. The answering for guests. I find it amazing that the journalism code of ethics has disappeared with the advent of cable news and the internet.
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The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

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133743Hokie wrote:I just don't get how supposedly once reasonable people like Todd can be so slanted in their moderating of a discussion like this. The one sided comments. The leading questions. The answering for guests. I find it amazing that the journalism code of ethics has disappeared with the advent of cable news and the internet.
Remember Wikileaks, the DNC has his leash.
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They're revolutionaries seeking to turn us into a communist nation. This is how they'll burn America.
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133743Hokie wrote:I just don't get how supposedly once reasonable people like Todd can be so slanted in their moderating of a discussion like this. The one sided comments. The leading questions. The answering for guests. I find it amazing that the journalism code of ethics has disappeared with the advent of cable news and the internet.
As I watch GMA (ABC news) while getting ready to head to the office every morning the MSM is so far slanted to the left and the dems now that it is almost impossible to watch. But sadly many people only watch the MSM so yes the country is headed down a bad path... good luck to us
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

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HokieJoe wrote:The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
Sure, but the Supremes have also ruled that only the federal government can set & enforce immigration policy. But that's not stopping Democrat run cities from setting their own policies and refusing to comply with the federal government. Don't be surprised if we start to "hate speech" laws pop up in some of these deep dark blue cities - which will probably end up back in the SCOTUS after a few years.
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UpstateSCHokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
Sure, but the Supremes have also ruled that only the federal government can set & enforce immigration policy. But that's not stopping Democrat run cities from setting their own policies and refusing to comply with the federal government. Don't be surprised if we start to "hate speech" laws pop up in some of these deep dark blue cities - which will probably end up back in the SCOTUS after a few years.
There's an OP Ed in the 4chan NYT today saying the ACLU should "rethink how it understands free speech."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/o ... 0&referer=
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USN_Hokie wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
Sure, but the Supremes have also ruled that only the federal government can set & enforce immigration policy. But that's not stopping Democrat run cities from setting their own policies and refusing to comply with the federal government. Don't be surprised if we start to "hate speech" laws pop up in some of these deep dark blue cities - which will probably end up back in the SCOTUS after a few years.
There's an OP Ed in the 4chan NYT today saying the ACLU should "rethink how it understands free speech."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/o ... 0&referer=
See my link, they're claiming the right to physically assault "racist" which they define as anyone not in their retarded clique. They're in full meltdown.
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Post by cwtcr hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
Sure, but the Supremes have also ruled that only the federal government can set & enforce immigration policy. But that's not stopping Democrat run cities from setting their own policies and refusing to comply with the federal government. Don't be surprised if we start to "hate speech" laws pop up in some of these deep dark blue cities - which will probably end up back in the SCOTUS after a few years.
There's an OP Ed in the 4chan NYT today saying the ACLU should "rethink how it understands free speech."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/o ... 0&referer=
the irony in this whole Cville deal is the monument supporters got a permit because the aclu sued the morons in cville on their behalf :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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USN_Hokie wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
Sure, but the Supremes have also ruled that only the federal government can set & enforce immigration policy. But that's not stopping Democrat run cities from setting their own policies and refusing to comply with the federal government. Don't be surprised if we start to "hate speech" laws pop up in some of these deep dark blue cities - which will probably end up back in the SCOTUS after a few years.
There's an OP Ed in the 4chan NYT today saying the ACLU should "rethink how it understands free speech."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/o ... 0&referer=
wow, that whole article is extremely racist. So white guys thrown into jail do not have affects on their right to speech.. huh??? anybody in jail has restrictions on speech, they are in FREAKING JAIL!!!!
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awesome guy wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:The Supremes have already ruled that there is no exception for 'hate speech' under the 1st Amendment.
Sure, but the Supremes have also ruled that only the federal government can set & enforce immigration policy. But that's not stopping Democrat run cities from setting their own policies and refusing to comply with the federal government. Don't be surprised if we start to "hate speech" laws pop up in some of these deep dark blue cities - which will probably end up back in the SCOTUS after a few years.
There's an OP Ed in the 4chan NYT today saying the ACLU should "rethink how it understands free speech."

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/o ... 0&referer=
See my link, they're claiming the right to physically assault "racist" which they define as anyone not in their retarded clique. They're in full meltdown.

Which comes right back to their imaginery hate speech clause. They're dangerous, and the government must deal with them. Otherwise, we'll have many more altercations. Confederate statues are just the cause du jour. They'll move on to other things soon enough.
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

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UpstateSCHokie wrote:Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
IMO, it won't be long before someone from Antifa kills someone. And similar to the white supremacists becoming more vocal during the last year, Antifa is now getting more exposure, and is more active, making it more likely.
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

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HokieFanDC wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
IMO, it won't be long before someone from Antifa kills someone. And similar to the white supremacists becoming more vocal during the last year, Antifa is now getting more exposure, and is more active, making it more likely.
Agree. It's coming sooner than people think.
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

Post by awesome guy »

HokieHam wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
IMO, it won't be long before someone from Antifa kills someone. And similar to the white supremacists becoming more vocal during the last year, Antifa is now getting more exposure, and is more active, making it more likely.
Agree. It's coming sooner than people think.
It's here because the media choose to make them an issue. It would the typical 50 man rally without the media propping them up to claim they're Trump's America.
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieHam wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
IMO, it won't be long before someone from Antifa kills someone. And similar to the white supremacists becoming more vocal during the last year, Antifa is now getting more exposure, and is more active, making it more likely.
Agree. It's coming sooner than people think.
I was just reading today that they're rebranding themselves as "anti-racist" verses "anti-fascist" (I'm not kidding).

So, if you have a problem with them calling for the killing of cops or bludgeoning people with deadly weapons, you are a racist. This is pre-k level reasoning from these folks.
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Posts: 13399
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

Post by cwtcr hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
IMO, it won't be long before someone from Antifa kills someone. And similar to the white supremacists becoming more vocal during the last year, Antifa is now getting more exposure, and is more active, making it more likely.
Agree. It's coming sooner than people think.
I was just reading today that they're rebranding themselves as "anti-racist" verses "anti-fascist" (I'm not kidding).

So, if you have a problem with them calling for the killing of cops or bludgeoning people with deadly weapons, you are a racist. This is pre-k level reasoning from these folks.
going to kill? they have killed many cops so far, 5 white cops alone in dallas last year and it would have been many more if the moron was not eliminated
HokieJoe
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

Post by HokieJoe »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:Wow, you know NBC has completely sold out to the far far left when they push back on suggestions from the SPLC that AntiFa should not "fight fire with fire."

I'll say this, I don't think there's been a time in my lifetime when we were so close to losing our 1A rights. This whole thing is a giant push to get "hate speech" outlawed, where "hate speech" is anything that is offensive to the left. That is wholly unAmerican, but I'm afraid that the idea of limiting speech for too pervasive within the snowflake generation and far left in general.

=======================================

Really Chuck? MSNBC’s Todd Aids in Promotion of Antifa Violence
By Nicholas Fondacaro | August 17, 2017 12:48 AM EDT

President Trump drew tremendous criticism from the liberal media when he noted that there was violence in Charlottesville, Virginia “on all side.” But despite its own hammering of the President, MSNBC brought on a staunch supporter of Antifa during MTP Daily to champion their violent approach to stopping opponents, as they displayed in Charlottesville. Host Chuck Todd, a self-proclaimed political referee, offered little to no push back against his violently radical guest.

The MSNBC host welcomed his guest with open arms, asking: “Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.”

“So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler,” Dartmouth “lecturer” Mark Bray claimed. “The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning.” He even admitted that what they did in Charlottesville was try to deny a platform.

After confirming that Bray followed the radical beliefs of Antifa, Todd’s next question wasn’t about the legality or morality of using violence to shut down free speech. It was concerning Antifa making the neo-Nazi’s look good. “What do you say to those that are concerned that: ‘Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here,’” Todd probed. “What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?”

Chuck Todd never questioned his guest’s romanticized explanation about what Antifa stood for or their own anti-semitic streak. He failed to do his due diligence and mention that Antifa promoted communism, a bloody ideology responsible for the deaths of roughly 100 million people.

There was also no mention from Todd of the fact that Antifa’s definition of fascism only applies to those they say it applies too, regardless of whether or not they’re actually fascist, a neo-Nazi, or a white nationalist. It often just applies to those who don't take the liberal position on any particular issue. Their violence was even felt at world economic summits like the G20 where they’ve clashed with police.

Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center, was the only one on the panel that appeared to find Antifa’s methods abhorrent. “I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville,” Cohen said. “We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it.”

Unbelievably, Todd actually pushed back on Cohen’s criticism of using violence instead of debate. He even made the Antifa argument for his guest: “The historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this the argument you’d make, right, Mark?” Cohen seriously had to remind everyone that in the United States people had the freedom of speech:
These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.
The Antifa advocate’s response was chilling as he denounced the First Amendment. “So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that,” Bray said coldly. “And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.”

Todd was unfazed by Bray; only half-heartedly asking if his guest if he was concerned about violence leading to more violence.

Antifa’s fluid definition of fascism, coupled with their love of violence, makes them a legitimate threat to anyone unlucky enough to attract their ire. And now Chuck Todd just gave them a platform to elevate and promote themselves.

Transcript below:
MSNBC
MTP Daily
August 16, 2017
5:40:06 PM Eastern



CHUCK TODD: Well, speaking of that fight, let's go to that issue there. Mark Bray, you are writing this book Antifa, the Anti-Fascist Handbook. Explain this movement and its roots.

MARK: Right. Right. So anti-fascism goes back to the beginning of the 20th century when leftists of all stripes fought back against Mussolini and Hitler. Most people think of Nazism as something that died with WWII, but it really rebranded itself, grew again in a lot of European countries, in the United States.

And so the modern Antifa movement grows out of the 70s and 80s in Great Britain and Germany when a lot of immigrants, when a lot of leftists, punk rockers had to physically defend themselves from neo-Nazi attacks, predominantly through skinheads. And that's where it grew and that's where we can trace its lineage from today.

The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.

TODD: I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?

BRAY: Yes, I am. Yes.

TODD: What do you say to those that are concerned that: “Hey, you're handing -- you're allowing this -- these white supremacists to claim victim hood here?” What do you say to that criticism since the President is trying to essentially create a false equivalency here?

BRAY: Well, I think there's two parts of it. One is how does -- how do far right movements grow? I say they grow by becoming normalized, by not being confronted, by being able to present themselves as family friendly and respectable. So part of the reason why the alt-right called themselves alt-right is to present that mainstream image.

And the opposition that people showed in Charlottesville really marred and tainted that. So I think that by showing up and confronting it, it prevents the ability of being able to be presented as mainstream and connect to that, I think, really you need to be able to prevent them from being able to organize. People who are involved in politics know that for movements to expand, they need to be able to organize and grow, and if you stop that, it prevents it.

Historically we can see that Nazism and fascism were not stopped by polite dialogue and reasonable debate. It had to be stopped by force and unfortunately, self-defense is necessitated in the context that we're seeing today.

TODD: Mark, you didn't see this, but Richard was shaking his head no. Why do you say that is not the right way to confront these white supremacists groups?

RICHARD COHEN: I think fighting fire with fire under the circumstances is going to lead to what we saw in Charlottesville.



We don't need the Antifa to come and make a spectacle out of it, to embolden these people. They love it. That's why they came with helmets on and shields, because they want to portray themselves as martyrs. They want to portray the white race as being embattled. The idea that we want to encourage the Antifa to come with clubs, you know, in all due respect it seems crazy to me.

TODD: But address Mark's other point here. Well, mark, you go ahead. I was going to get him to respond to your other point, which is the historical aspect of fascism has only been defeated with violence. I assume this is the argument you’d make, right, Mark?



COHEN: Well, I guess what I would say is we have the police, we have law enforcement, and if, you know, if the neo-Nazis act violently, we can depend upon them shut them down. These people have a right to espouse their ideas. No one – Hate is not illegal in this country. Hurting people is illegal, and we have first amendment rights and we can't squelch them by having people show up at rallies with clubs.

TODD: Mark, I'll go ahead and give you the last word.

BRAY: So, I mean, if no one is praising the Weimar Republic for giving Nazis the right to assemble. No one is really lauding that. We're looking back and saying isn't it unfortunate that this threat was not taken seriously earlier and stamped out before millions of people could be killed. That's the historical argument that I make. And I'd rather have people confronting them than sitting idly. There are no great memoirs written of people who sat idling by and watch Nazism rise to power.

TODD: Are you at all concerned about the rise violence begets violence begets violence? Mark.

BRAY: Self-defense is important.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ni ... a-violence
IMO, it won't be long before someone from Antifa kills someone. And similar to the white supremacists becoming more vocal during the last year, Antifa is now getting more exposure, and is more active, making it more likely.
Agree. It's coming sooner than people think.
I was just reading today that they're rebranding themselves as "anti-racist" verses "anti-fascist" (I'm not kidding).

So, if you have a problem with them calling for the killing of cops or bludgeoning people with deadly weapons, you are a racist. This is pre-k level reasoning from these folks.

I'll continue to call them anti-American communists.
"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
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UpstateSCHokie
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Re: NBC News, where the most reasonable guest is SPLC presid

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

Could you imagine if Hannity had a KKK member on his show and just allowed him to spew his vitriol unchallenged? Hannity would probably be fired immediately.

=========================================

MRC's Bozell Slams Chuck Todd for Softball Interview with Militant Leftwing Leader
By NB Staff | August 17, 2017 2:33 PM EDT

Media Research Center (MRC) President Brent Bozell issued the following statement today in response to a Wednesday evening interview between MTP Daily host Chuck Todd and Mark Bray, a prominent voice in the radical left-wing Antifa movement. The Antifa supporter went unchallenged as he promoted his violent extremist beliefs to MSNBC viewers:

“The main perspective of Antifa is essentially that rather than simply waiting for the threat to materialize, you stop it from the beginning. You say no platform for fascism and that's what we're seeing with the attempts in Charlottesville and elsewhere.” When Chuck Todd, specifically asked: “I'm curious, first of all, are you an advocate of this sort of confrontation?,” Bray Replied: “Yes, I am. Yes.”

Here's MRC President Brent Bozell:
Chuck Todd and MSNBC are providing a platform for radical leftists who use violence as a means to intimidate political opponents and suppress free speech. Allowing Antifa supporters to promote violence unchallenged is not only repugnant, but irresponsible. MSNBC and their sponsors must be held accountable for providing a platform for any violence and destruction perpetrated by these hateful groups.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nb ... t-leftwing
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“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
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