Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

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Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by USN_Hokie »

Will be interesting to see how this is spun.

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/10/14/ ... oyees.html
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by 133743Hokie »

I know that at SpaceX they do evaluations and the top 10% get great raises, including cash bonuses and stock grants, the middle 80% COLA and the bottom 10% get let go. There is such a high demand from potential employees to work there that they don't need to keep the under performers. I expect he's doing the same thing at Tesla.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by nolanvt »

133743Hokie wrote:I know that at SpaceX they do evaluations and the top 10% get great raises, including cash bonuses and stock grants, the middle 80% COLA and the bottom 10% get let go. There is such a high demand from potential employees to work there that they don't need to keep the under performers. I expect he's doing the same thing at Tesla.
Honestly, organizations should turnover their staff by 5-10% each year or so. Enabling deadbeats is more costly than the cost to replace those employees.


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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:I know that at SpaceX they do evaluations and the top 10% get great raises, including cash bonuses and stock grants, the middle 80% COLA and the bottom 10% get let go. There is such a high demand from potential employees to work there that they don't need to keep the under performers. I expect he's doing the same thing at Tesla.

I like that model where possible, but it seems odd as they should be ramping up production for their new car this summer. Curious where the layoffs are and how this compares with previous years. Related to an acquisition?
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by CFB Apologist »

CLEAR sign of white privilege. Whites aren't held to standards at work, they keep their jobs simply because they are white. Tesla firing 700- mostly white- people is an anomaly and not indicative of privileged white america
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by fatman »

I highly recommend the biography of musk. It's damn good reading. Musk is notorious for being a tough employer. He has the top choice of the brightest engineers and business people in the world desperate to work for him. He has long rewarded brilliant top performers and fired the average. He's done it going back several companies.

I think he has surpassed Jobs as the most impressive American* busInessman in recent decades. Like jobs, he would be a nightmare to work for. He is so demanding and brilliant, it's tough to keep up. I think all the real deal conservatives on here would admire his management style, it's a meritocracy with no political correctness.

With the entire global auto industry moving to electrics, he is going to have massive competition in the next phase of his business.

He won the philosophical war to establish electric cars as the dominant form all car companies and buyers are moving towards. Then he open sourced all Tesla's patents. Now he has to fight much larger companies, many of whom like GM take massive government gifts of cash or like Volvo have the government of the largest auto market tipping the scales in their favor. Musk is a capitalist fighting with the equity of his shareholders against all the government backed companies. That will be tough.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by awesome guy »

fatman wrote:I highly recommend the biography of musk. It's damn good reading. Musk is notorious for being a tough employer. He has the top choice of the brightest engineers and business people in the world desperate to work for him. He has long rewarded brilliant top performers and fired the average. He's done it going back several companies.

I think he has surpassed Jobs as the most impressive American* busInessman in recent decades. Like jobs, he would be a nightmare to work for. He is so demanding and brilliant, it's tough to keep up. I think all the real deal conservatives on here would admire his management style, it's a meritocracy with no political correctness.

With the entire global auto industry moving to electrics, he is going to have massive competition in the next phase of his business.

He won the philosophical war to establish electric cars as the dominant form all car companies and buyers are moving towards. Then he open sourced all Tesla's patents. Now he has to fight much larger companies, many of whom like GM take massive government gifts of cash or like Volvo have the government of the largest auto market tipping the scales in their favor. Musk is a capitalist fighting with the equity of his shareholders against all the government backed companies. That will be tough.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by cwtcr hokie »

fatman wrote:I highly recommend the biography of musk. It's damn good reading. Musk is notorious for being a tough employer. He has the top choice of the brightest engineers and business people in the world desperate to work for him. He has long rewarded brilliant top performers and fired the average. He's done it going back several companies.

I think he has surpassed Jobs as the most impressive American* busInessman in recent decades. Like jobs, he would be a nightmare to work for. He is so demanding and brilliant, it's tough to keep up. I think all the real deal conservatives on here would admire his management style, it's a meritocracy with no political correctness.

With the entire global auto industry moving to electrics, he is going to have massive competition in the next phase of his business.

He won the philosophical war to establish electric cars as the dominant form all car companies and buyers are moving towards. Then he open sourced all Tesla's patents. Now he has to fight much larger companies, many of whom like GM take massive government gifts of cash or like Volvo have the government of the largest auto market tipping the scales in their favor. Musk is a capitalist fighting with the equity of his shareholders against all the government backed companies. That will be tough.
you have seen the data showing that if we were to go to all electric vehicle fleet that we would need to build many many power plants? And that to convert or build all the charging stations that would be necessary would mean millions to individual service stations? And that even the fastest charge times means you will have long lines and waiting to get more juice for the vehicles? But the problem remains, the power grid is struggling now at peak times, so what are you using to make the massive amount of power needed to charge all the cars if the rest of the car makers pull the moronic move of going all electric?
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by Mcl3 Hokie »

You mean except for the almost $5B in grants he's taken from the government to fight the government backed companies?
fatman wrote:I highly recommend the biography of musk. It's damn good reading. Musk is notorious for being a tough employer. He has the top choice of the brightest engineers and business people in the world desperate to work for him. He has long rewarded brilliant top performers and fired the average. He's done it going back several companies.

I think he has surpassed Jobs as the most impressive American* busInessman in recent decades. Like jobs, he would be a nightmare to work for. He is so demanding and brilliant, it's tough to keep up. I think all the real deal conservatives on here would admire his management style, it's a meritocracy with no political correctness.

With the entire global auto industry moving to electrics, he is going to have massive competition in the next phase of his business.

He won the philosophical war to establish electric cars as the dominant form all car companies and buyers are moving towards. Then he open sourced all Tesla's patents. Now he has to fight much larger companies, many of whom like GM take massive government gifts of cash or like Volvo have the government of the largest auto market tipping the scales in their favor. Musk is a capitalist fighting with the equity of his shareholders against all the government backed companies. That will be tough.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by cwtcr hokie »

Mcl3 Hokie wrote:You mean except for the almost $5B in grants he's taken from the government to fight the government backed companies?
fatman wrote:I highly recommend the biography of musk. It's damn good reading. Musk is notorious for being a tough employer. He has the top choice of the brightest engineers and business people in the world desperate to work for him. He has long rewarded brilliant top performers and fired the average. He's done it going back several companies.

I think he has surpassed Jobs as the most impressive American* busInessman in recent decades. Like jobs, he would be a nightmare to work for. He is so demanding and brilliant, it's tough to keep up. I think all the real deal conservatives on here would admire his management style, it's a meritocracy with no political correctness.

With the entire global auto industry moving to electrics, he is going to have massive competition in the next phase of his business.

He won the philosophical war to establish electric cars as the dominant form all car companies and buyers are moving towards. Then he open sourced all Tesla's patents. Now he has to fight much larger companies, many of whom like GM take massive government gifts of cash or like Volvo have the government of the largest auto market tipping the scales in their favor. Musk is a capitalist fighting with the equity of his shareholders against all the government backed companies. That will be tough.
that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago

Or that anyone that buys an electric vehicle from any mfr gets a whole bunch of tax dollars for doing that, when I bought my chevy this Jan I got zippo
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by RWNJ »

[quote="cwtcr hokie"]that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by cwtcr hokie »

RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by 133743Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Yes, GM paid back their loan. But the government crushed the shareholders; a move that was illegal.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by RWNJ »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by cwtcr hokie »

RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by 133743Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by Mcl3 Hokie »

Bingo. The fix was in on this one. The labor unions pensions got funded, but white color workers got the shaft.
133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Yes, GM paid back their loan. But the government crushed the shareholders; a move that was illegal.
Yup.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.

...and yup.
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by cwtcr hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:that ruins the whole scenario, just forget the $5 bil, or that Ford is a public company and took nothing from the gov or that GM paid back all that they borrowed from the gov years ago/quote]

Are you sure about that?
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.
Yes Bankruptcy sucks, been thru one at a company I was the controller of, it sucks out loud. The only people not screwed in the fiasco was the lawyers, they made out like bandits, all of them.

But the GM bankruptcy was necessary as if GM had stopped making payments to the thousands of part suppliers in the US it would have been devastating to many and most of the companies would have folded quickly. I know, one of my previous jobs was a controller for a company that sold parts to GM. But yes, everyone except the lawyers get screwed in a bankruptcy
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by 133743Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.
Yes Bankruptcy sucks, been thru one at a company I was the controller of, it sucks out loud. The only people not screwed in the fiasco was the lawyers, they made out like bandits, all of them.

But the GM bankruptcy was necessary as if GM had stopped making payments to the thousands of part suppliers in the US it would have been devastating to many and most of the companies would have folded quickly. I know, one of my previous jobs was a controller for a company that sold parts to GM. But yes, everyone except the lawyers get screwed in a bankruptcy
The problem is that GM DIDN'T go thru bankruptcy. If it had then the bondholders would have been paid out. They went thru a government directed restructuring. The USG took 50% ownership for a $20B loan, the UAW got a 39% stake for restructuring $10B in long term obligations, and the bondholders (first in line thru legal bankruptcy proceeding) only received a 10% ownership stake for their $27B. Seems just a little slanted towards the union don't you think? The USG went outside normal law and screwed the bondholders to benefit the union workers.

I had no problem with GM "failing". That's what bad businesses do.
cwtcr hokie
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by cwtcr hokie »

quote="cwtcr hokie"]
133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.
Yes Bankruptcy sucks, been thru one at a company I was the controller of, it sucks out loud. The only people not screwed in the fiasco was the lawyers, they made out like bandits, all of them.

But the GM bankruptcy was necessary as if GM had stopped making payments to the thousands of part suppliers in the US it would have been devastating to many and most of the companies would have folded quickly. I know, one of my previous jobs was a controller for a company that sold parts to GM. But yes, everyone except the lawyers get screwed in a bankruptcy[/quote]
The problem is that GM DIDN'T go thru bankruptcy. If it had then the bondholders would have been paid out. They went thru a government directed restructuring. The USG took 50% ownership for a $20B loan, the UAW got a 39% stake for restructuring $10B in long term obligations, and the bondholders (first in line thru legal bankruptcy proceeding) only received a 10% ownership stake for their $27B. Seems just a little slanted towards the union don't you think? The USG went outside normal law and screwed the bondholders to benefit the union workers.

I had no problem with GM "failing". That's what bad businesses do.[/quote]

You should have a big problem with GM failing, it would have been disastrous for the economy at the time, there are literally thousands of part suppliers that would have ceased operations if the accounts payable was not paid, if any interruption in those payments occurred. I know, I was the financial guy at one of those exact companies and I saw the GM mess coming and left before it occurred. Thank god it was not a normal bankruptcy as in a normal one any bills not paid on the date the bankruptcy is declared do not get paid until the case is settled which can be years down the road. In any bankruptcy someone is taking a hair cut, just not the lawyers
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by HokieFanDC »

cwtcr hokie wrote:quote="cwtcr hokie"]
133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
RWNJ wrote:
Did you even read your own link? You may want to, as per YOUR link they did repay the LOAN funds in full. And gave back any loan funds not ever used. I do not believe that the fed gov still owns any GM stock but taking stock was a dumb idea to start with but if they did hold it until say today they prob. could have made a gain on it.

So yes, my post was 100% correct
Well, call me a skeptic, but there is much more to the story about GM repaying all the money borrowed. Repaying the Govt with Govt funds is not the same as repaying from earnings.
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth ... 266330.php
what are you talking about, all of the tarp funds were not spent, the cash was sitting in an escrow account, GM just gave it back, that is not repaying a loan with a loan or else the new loan would be on their balance sheet, its not. A loan was repaid and an escrow acct on the asset side of the balance sheet was closed. FYI, cash in a business is cash, its not identified so it does not matter the source of the funds, if it is from operations then it comes out of cash flow, if it is with new debt or equity it is shown on the liablity side of the balance sheet
The government and GM screwed their bondholders and protected the UAW, it's that simple.
Yes Bankruptcy sucks, been thru one at a company I was the controller of, it sucks out loud. The only people not screwed in the fiasco was the lawyers, they made out like bandits, all of them.

But the GM bankruptcy was necessary as if GM had stopped making payments to the thousands of part suppliers in the US it would have been devastating to many and most of the companies would have folded quickly. I know, one of my previous jobs was a controller for a company that sold parts to GM. But yes, everyone except the lawyers get screwed in a bankruptcy
The problem is that GM DIDN'T go thru bankruptcy. If it had then the bondholders would have been paid out. They went thru a government directed restructuring. The USG took 50% ownership for a $20B loan, the UAW got a 39% stake for restructuring $10B in long term obligations, and the bondholders (first in line thru legal bankruptcy proceeding) only received a 10% ownership stake for their $27B. Seems just a little slanted towards the union don't you think? The USG went outside normal law and screwed the bondholders to benefit the union workers.

I had no problem with GM "failing". That's what bad businesses do.[/quote]

You should have a big problem with GM failing, it would have been disastrous for the economy at the time, there are literally thousands of part suppliers that would have ceased operations if the accounts payable was not paid, if any interruption in those payments occurred. I know, I was the financial guy at one of those exact companies and I saw the GM mess coming and left before it occurred. Thank god it was not a normal bankruptcy as in a normal one any bills not paid on the date the bankruptcy is declared do not get paid until the case is settled which can be years down the road. In any bankruptcy someone is taking a hair cut, just not the lawyers[/quote]

The bottom line is that GM got a huge benefit from government interference, money, and influence. GM is a very poor example when it comes to being financially self sustaining.
HokieJoe
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by HokieJoe »

1) The government could not allow GM to go out of business, period. The ripple effect thru tiered suppliers would've devastated the economy.

2) GM is also a strategic asset in the event war occurs, so no, going out of business was not an option.

3) UAW members should've taken a bigger haircut because their bloated contracts played a VERY large role in why GM was 'restructured'.
"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
133743Hokie
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Re: Tesla fired up to 700ppl this week.

Post by 133743Hokie »

HokieJoe wrote:1) The government could not allow GM to go out of business, period. The ripple effect thru tiered suppliers would've devastated the economy.

2) GM is also a strategic asset in the event war occurs, so no, going out of business was not an option.

3) UAW members should've taken a bigger haircut because their bloated contracts played a VERY large role in why GM was 'restructured'.
GM bankruptcy would not have devastated the economy any more than failing banks or mortgage lenders did. Your personal closeness to this has clouded your view. I suggest you read any of the many papers and books written on this matter and you'll see things differently.

GM isn't any more "strategic" than dozens of other businesses. Given how wars are now fought they would be a minor player at best, and even then only in a holocaustic type of war.
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