CBS earning estimates lowered based on NFL's "success"

[TheH2]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

[awesome guy]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Do you not understand that one of their primary partners got downgraded over their failing? Saving face often costs you your ass.

[HokieJoe]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Relative to past performance? Yes, they are failing. Viewers are fickle like that. Moreover, the NFL doesn't have product cycles like Apple. The NFL is an entertainment enterprise, and their performers have chosen to hijack the NFL owners stage to make a political statement. That, among other issues, is starting to hurt their advertising revenue.

[Mcl3 Hokie]

Not just USN, but also the street. If analysts lowere earnings estimates based on loss of NFL add revenue, then that’s failing. Downgrades certainly aren’t a vote of confidence of success.

I should add the secondary ticket market is off, too. That’s a big nuthin burger for all the seat resellers. It also indicates future demand falling.

The stations sell advertising based on ratings. If they aren’t delivering the same ratings as last year, ad revenue will go down. This isn’t about total eyeballs on the game, but whether there are more, or less this year than last.

Very insightful! USN said the NFL is failing. The #1 sport isn't failing no more than Apple is failing when they report 60 billion in profits as opposed to 70 billion.

[USN_Hokie]

Why if I was in H.S. in 97 would I not be able to purchase stock in January 2016?

Because nobody cares if you invested your $257.72 in Pizza Hut earnings in Apple stock.

Why if I was in h.s. in 97 would I be working at Pizza hut now?

I have a pretty damn good record on stocks here, and general understanding of the economy and finance. Regardless if it was 200, or 2,000, or 20,000 or 200,000 (it wasn't sadly), the fact that I see Apple as not a failure, and by your logic Apple was a failure, is telling.

I also don't consider someone overpaying for X an indication that X is failing. That's just stupid, but that's how you think about things.

You still don't get it. You threw out some (unverifiable, probably BS) investment of your lunch money 20yrs ago as if that makes you some investment savant. Nobody cares.

I will continue to rib you in these threads where you act like a sniping, petty insecure IT dude. Grow up and make meaningful, logical arguments here and I'll return the favor. You get what you give.

[133743Hokie]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/16/cbs-ear ... -says.html

This is what failing looks like:
Rank Show Net Day Time 18-49 rating
18-49 viewers (000s)
1 SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – CHIEFS/TEXANS NBC Sun. 8:31 PM 5.8 7,507
2 THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – PATRIOTS/BUCCANEERS CBS Thurs. 8:27 PM 5.1 6,517
3 THE OT FOX Sun. 7:39 PM 4.4 5,693
4 THIS IS US NBC Tues. 9:00 PM 3.1 4,058
5 THE BIG BANG THEORY CBS Mon. 8:00 PM 3.1 4,056
6 FOOTBALL NIGHT IN AMERICA PT 3 NBC Sun. 7:55 PM 3.0 3,838
7 THE VOICE NBC Mon. 8:00 PM 2.6 3,290
8 THE VOICE NBC Tues. 8:00 PM 2.3 2,954
9 THE GOOD DOCTOR ABC Mon. 10:01 PM 2.2 2,848
10 THE SIMPSONS FOX Sun. 8:00 PM 2.2 2,775

To be fair, it's relative. This years standing is irrelevant in its own. How do those ratings compare to last year and prior years?

[133743Hokie]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/16/cbs-ear ... -says.html

This is what failing looks like:
Rank Show Net Day Time 18-49 rating
18-49 viewers (000s)
1 SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – CHIEFS/TEXANS NBC Sun. 8:31 PM 5.8 7,507
2 THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – PATRIOTS/BUCCANEERS CBS Thurs. 8:27 PM 5.1 6,517
3 THE OT FOX Sun. 7:39 PM 4.4 5,693
4 THIS IS US NBC Tues. 9:00 PM 3.1 4,058
5 THE BIG BANG THEORY CBS Mon. 8:00 PM 3.1 4,056
6 FOOTBALL NIGHT IN AMERICA PT 3 NBC Sun. 7:55 PM 3.0 3,838
7 THE VOICE NBC Mon. 8:00 PM 2.6 3,290
8 THE VOICE NBC Tues. 8:00 PM 2.3 2,954
9 THE GOOD DOCTOR ABC Mon. 10:01 PM 2.2 2,848
10 THE SIMPSONS FOX Sun. 8:00 PM 2.2 2,775

So the fact that more people watch the NFL than bad tired sitcoms and beta singing shows is not the point USN or anyone with a brain is making. Of course more people watch live sports- always have. The point is- read slowly- NFL ratings are down compared to PAST NFL RATINGS- in a big way. Do more people watch the NFL than scripted singing shows? yes and who cares.

More people watch the NFL than scripted shows. More people don't watch other sports. The HOF game (first preseason game) did better ratings than most of the MLB and NBA playoffs. The Saturday night CFB game was #13. AL Wildcard (cable) did a 2.1, compared to 3.1 for The Voice.

Is the NFL failing?

Yes, compared to prior seasons.

[TheH2]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/16/cbs-ear ... -says.html

This is what failing looks like:
Rank Show Net Day Time 18-49 rating
18-49 viewers (000s)
1 SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – CHIEFS/TEXANS NBC Sun. 8:31 PM 5.8 7,507
2 THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – PATRIOTS/BUCCANEERS CBS Thurs. 8:27 PM 5.1 6,517
3 THE OT FOX Sun. 7:39 PM 4.4 5,693
4 THIS IS US NBC Tues. 9:00 PM 3.1 4,058
5 THE BIG BANG THEORY CBS Mon. 8:00 PM 3.1 4,056
6 FOOTBALL NIGHT IN AMERICA PT 3 NBC Sun. 7:55 PM 3.0 3,838
7 THE VOICE NBC Mon. 8:00 PM 2.6 3,290
8 THE VOICE NBC Tues. 8:00 PM 2.3 2,954
9 THE GOOD DOCTOR ABC Mon. 10:01 PM 2.2 2,848
10 THE SIMPSONS FOX Sun. 8:00 PM 2.2 2,775

So the fact that more people watch the NFL than bad tired sitcoms and beta singing shows is not the point USN or anyone with a brain is making. Of course more people watch live sports- always have. The point is- read slowly- NFL ratings are down compared to PAST NFL RATINGS- in a big way. Do more people watch the NFL than scripted singing shows? yes and who cares.

More people watch the NFL than scripted shows. More people don't watch other sports. The HOF game (first preseason game) did better ratings than most of the MLB and NBA playoffs. The Saturday night CFB game was #13. AL Wildcard (cable) did a 2.1, compared to 3.1 for The Voice.

Is the NFL failing?

Yes, compared to prior seasons.

I agree, relative to last year, this is failing.

[TheH2]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Relative to past performance? Yes, they are failing.

I agree, relative to last year. That wasn't the statement. I have never disputed that.

Viewers are fickle like that. Moreover, the NFL doesn't have product cycles like Apple. The NFL is an entertainment enterprise, and their performers have chosen to hijack the NFL owners stage to make a political statement. That, among other issues, is starting to hurt their advertising revenue.

In regards to Apple, it was the first annual decrease in revenue. So it wasn't just product cycle.

Saying that the NFL is failing is like saying Alabama is failing because they are beating opponents by less. The NFL is still #1, by far. Nothing is close to touching it.

[TheH2]

Not just USN, but also the street. If analysts lowere earnings estimates based on loss of NFL add revenue, then that’s failing. Downgrades certainly aren’t a vote of confidence of success.

I should add the secondary ticket market is off, too. That’s a big nuthin burger for all the seat resellers. It also indicates future demand falling.

Lowered earnings is not failing and Apple is the perfect example. Clearly Apple wasn't failing when their YOY revenue fell for the first time, and their EBIT fell by 15%. Earnings estimates started to drop. Yet an investment in Apple at that time saw a return (excluding dividend) of 65%. If you bought at the bottom it was over 70%. Apple was not failing, or hell maybe it was, but the return on investment says otherwise.

[cwtcr hokie]

Not just USN, but also the street. If analysts lowere earnings estimates based on loss of NFL add revenue, then that’s failing. Downgrades certainly aren’t a vote of confidence of success.

I should add the secondary ticket market is off, too. That’s a big nuthin burger for all the seat resellers. It also indicates future demand falling.

Lowered earnings is not failing and Apple is the perfect example. Clearly Apple wasn't failing when their YOY revenue fell for the first time, and their EBIT fell by 15%. Earnings estimates started to drop. Yet an investment in Apple at that time saw a return (excluding dividend) of 65%. If you bought at the bottom it was over 70%. Apple was not failing, or hell maybe it was, but the return on investment says otherwise.

except the NFL is not apple, its revenue source is a fan base that goes to games or buys merchandise or watches them on tv. At this point all three of those are dropping dramatically and them meeting yesterday and not doing anything will only exacerbate that. The funniest part though is the players that are protesting cops being mean will end up with much smaller contracts as the revenue goes lower.... the rich dudes that own the teams are not going to eat the losses

[USN_Hokie]

I think we can all agree that we're glad H2 isn't a dam inspector.

"sure there's a crack, but it's holding water! The dam is a success!"

[TheH2]

Why if I was in H.S. in 97 would I not be able to purchase stock in January 2016?

Because nobody cares if you invested your $257.72 in Pizza Hut earnings in Apple stock.

Why if I was in h.s. in 97 would I be working at Pizza hut now?

I have a pretty damn good record on stocks here, and general understanding of the economy and finance. Regardless if it was 200, or 2,000, or 20,000 or 200,000 (it wasn't sadly), the fact that I see Apple as not a failure, and by your logic Apple was a failure, is telling.

I also don't consider someone overpaying for X an indication that X is failing. That's just stupid, but that's how you think about things.

You still don't get it. You threw out some (unverifiable, probably BS) investment of your lunch money 20yrs ago as if that makes you some investment savant. Nobody cares.

I don't pretend to be an investment savant, just an example of something that is failing by your logic (and AG's - have you guys morphed into one)? It really doesn't matter if I made the investment at all, it was just an example. I could post the transaction but being an "IT professional" I'd just be photoshopping.

I will continue to rib you in these threads where you act like a sniping, petty insecure IT dude.

First, I'm not in IT, I'm in Economics/valuation. We have 11 people in our office, so I deal with any issues, albeit minimal because we are using the cloud for file storage.

It's funny that you call me insecure, yet you were the one that resorted to insults. One person is showing their insecurity in this thread and it isn't me.

Grow up and make meaningful, logical arguments here and I'll return the favor. You get what you give.

Look at this thread and it's clear one person has more growing up to do. Also, don't blame your illogical arguments on me. But, admitting your arguments were illogical was the first step!!!!!

[USN_Hokie]

Why if I was in H.S. in 97 would I not be able to purchase stock in January 2016?

Because nobody cares if you invested your $257.72 in Pizza Hut earnings in Apple stock.

Why if I was in h.s. in 97 would I be working at Pizza hut now?

I have a pretty damn good record on stocks here, and general understanding of the economy and finance. Regardless if it was 200, or 2,000, or 20,000 or 200,000 (it wasn't sadly), the fact that I see Apple as not a failure, and by your logic Apple was a failure, is telling.

I also don't consider someone overpaying for X an indication that X is failing. That's just stupid, but that's how you think about things.

You still don't get it. You threw out some (unverifiable, probably BS) investment of your lunch money 20yrs ago as if that makes you some investment savant. Nobody cares.

I don't pretend to be an investment savant, just an example of something that is failing by your logic (and AG's - have you guys morphed into one)? It really doesn't matter if I made the investment at all, it was just an example. I could post the transaction but being an "IT professional" I'd just be photoshopping.

I will continue to rib you in these threads where you act like a sniping, petty insecure IT dude.

First, I'm not in IT, I'm in Economics/valuation. We have 11 people in our office, so I deal with any issues, albeit minimal because we are using the cloud for file storage.

It's funny that you call me insecure, yet you were the one that resorted to insults. One person is showing their insecurity in this thread and it isn't me.

Grow up and make meaningful, logical arguments here and I'll return the favor. You get what you give.

Look at this thread and it's clear one person has more growing up to do. Also, don't blame your illogical arguments on me. But, admitting your arguments were illogical was the first step!!!!!

I think everyone sees and is tired of your your petty sniping. Your responses are so predictable.

[Mcl3 Hokie]

Tell that to the people that end up losing their jobs over lower than expected ad revenue. I'm sure that's not winning in their book. Did I say that this would put them out of business? No, but it certainly is on the negative side of the ledger for them.

Not just USN, but also the street. If analysts lowere earnings estimates based on loss of NFL add revenue, then that’s failing. Downgrades certainly aren’t a vote of confidence of success.

I should add the secondary ticket market is off, too. That’s a big nuthin burger for all the seat resellers. It also indicates future demand falling.

Lowered earnings is not failing and Apple is the perfect example. Clearly Apple wasn't failing when their YOY revenue fell for the first time, and their EBIT fell by 15%. Earnings estimates started to drop. Yet an investment in Apple at that time saw a return (excluding dividend) of 65%. If you bought at the bottom it was over 70%. Apple was not failing, or hell maybe it was, but the return on investment says otherwise.

[TheH2]

Tell that to the people that end up losing their jobs over lower than expected ad revenue. I'm sure that's not winning in their book. Did I say that this would put them out of business? No, but it certainly is on the negative side of the ledger for them.

There is no difference between "not winning" and failing? Just because the NFL isn't failing doesn't mean there aren't issues. There is certainly an in between right? Their ratings are still #1, by far. If you want to advertise on television the most eyes are from the NFL. They make more from TV contracts than anyone else, with less games.

"Failing" is a lot more subjective than I thought. I assumed doubling up ratings with crappy games against MLB/NBA playoff games would not be failing. It's tough to be #1, but dwarfing revenue of all other leagues is not failing.

Finally, even with the ratings decline in the regular season last year, the salary cap went up in 2017, not down, which is a formula based on all revenue. Just to recap, last year the "failing" leagues revenue went up, not down. That's quite the failure.

[awesome guy]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Relative to past performance? Yes, they are failing.

I agree, relative to last year. That wasn't the statement. I have never disputed that.

Viewers are fickle like that. Moreover, the NFL doesn't have product cycles like Apple. The NFL is an entertainment enterprise, and their performers have chosen to hijack the NFL owners stage to make a political statement. That, among other issues, is starting to hurt their advertising revenue.

In regards to Apple, it was the first annual decrease in revenue. So it wasn't just product cycle.

Saying that the NFL is failing is like saying Alabama is failing because they are beating opponents by less. The NFL is still #1, by far. Nothing is close to touching it.

LOL, come on. They have less viewers and more empty seats. You're full retard on this, they're on a downward trajectory and will continue till making changes. Guess will have to wait for The Atlantic to post an article saying so much as you seem to rely on memorization of articles instead of critical thinking to form arguments.

[awesome guy]

Not just USN, but also the street. If analysts lowere earnings estimates based on loss of NFL add revenue, then that’s failing. Downgrades certainly aren’t a vote of confidence of success.

I should add the secondary ticket market is off, too. That’s a big nuthin burger for all the seat resellers. It also indicates future demand falling.

Lowered earnings is not failing and Apple is the perfect example. Clearly Apple wasn't failing when their YOY revenue fell for the first time, and their EBIT fell by 15%. Earnings estimates started to drop. Yet an investment in Apple at that time saw a return (excluding dividend) of 65%. If you bought at the bottom it was over 70%. Apple was not failing, or hell maybe it was, but the return on investment says otherwise.

They failed to meet goals and had to make changes to reverse coarse. Here you seem to be confusing "failing" with being out of business aka complete collapse.

[133743Hokie]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/16/cbs-ear ... -says.html

This is what failing looks like:
Rank Show Net Day Time 18-49 rating
18-49 viewers (000s)
1 SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – CHIEFS/TEXANS NBC Sun. 8:31 PM 5.8 7,507
2 THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL – PATRIOTS/BUCCANEERS CBS Thurs. 8:27 PM 5.1 6,517
3 THE OT FOX Sun. 7:39 PM 4.4 5,693
4 THIS IS US NBC Tues. 9:00 PM 3.1 4,058
5 THE BIG BANG THEORY CBS Mon. 8:00 PM 3.1 4,056
6 FOOTBALL NIGHT IN AMERICA PT 3 NBC Sun. 7:55 PM 3.0 3,838
7 THE VOICE NBC Mon. 8:00 PM 2.6 3,290
8 THE VOICE NBC Tues. 8:00 PM 2.3 2,954
9 THE GOOD DOCTOR ABC Mon. 10:01 PM 2.2 2,848
10 THE SIMPSONS FOX Sun. 8:00 PM 2.2 2,775

So the fact that more people watch the NFL than bad tired sitcoms and beta singing shows is not the point USN or anyone with a brain is making. Of course more people watch live sports- always have. The point is- read slowly- NFL ratings are down compared to PAST NFL RATINGS- in a big way. Do more people watch the NFL than scripted singing shows? yes and who cares.

More people watch the NFL than scripted shows. More people don't watch other sports. The HOF game (first preseason game) did better ratings than most of the MLB and NBA playoffs. The Saturday night CFB game was #13. AL Wildcard (cable) did a 2.1, compared to 3.1 for The Voice.

Is the NFL failing?

Yes, compared to prior seasons.

I agree, relative to last year, this is failing.

Given the current political firestorm, changing demographics, rising costs, the trend of fewer people attending live sporting events, the explosion of brain trauma/injury issues, etc. I anticipate the continued downward trend of the NFL. In fact, I expect 10 years from now it will be nothing like it is today, in a negative way,

[awesome guy]

I think we can all agree that we're glad H2 isn't a dam inspector.

"sure there's a crack, but it's holding water! The dam is a success!"

Haha, yep. He needs an article in The Atlantic to guide him out of this.

[TheH2]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Relative to past performance? Yes, they are failing.

I agree, relative to last year. That wasn't the statement. I have never disputed that.

Viewers are fickle like that. Moreover, the NFL doesn't have product cycles like Apple. The NFL is an entertainment enterprise, and their performers have chosen to hijack the NFL owners stage to make a political statement. That, among other issues, is starting to hurt their advertising revenue.

In regards to Apple, it was the first annual decrease in revenue. So it wasn't just product cycle.

Saying that the NFL is failing is like saying Alabama is failing because they are beating opponents by less. The NFL is still #1, by far. Nothing is close to touching it.

LOL, come on. They have less viewers and more empty seats. You're full retard on this, they're on a downward trajectory and will continue till making changes. Guess will have to wait for The Atlantic to post an article saying so much as you seem to rely on memorization of articles instead of critical thinking to form arguments.

Let me say this again. In 2017, the salary cap, which is a formula based on league revenue, increased by 7.7%. That's quite the downward trajectory.

[awesome guy]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Relative to past performance? Yes, they are failing.

I agree, relative to last year. That wasn't the statement. I have never disputed that.

Viewers are fickle like that. Moreover, the NFL doesn't have product cycles like Apple. The NFL is an entertainment enterprise, and their performers have chosen to hijack the NFL owners stage to make a political statement. That, among other issues, is starting to hurt their advertising revenue.

In regards to Apple, it was the first annual decrease in revenue. So it wasn't just product cycle.

Saying that the NFL is failing is like saying Alabama is failing because they are beating opponents by less. The NFL is still #1, by far. Nothing is close to touching it.

LOL, come on. They have less viewers and more empty seats. You're full retard on this, they're on a downward trajectory and will continue till making changes. Guess will have to wait for The Atlantic to post an article saying so much as you seem to rely on memorization of articles instead of critical thinking to form arguments.

Let me say this again. In 2017, the salary cap, which is a formula based on league revenue, increased by 7.7%. That's quite the downward trajectory.

Pre-kneeling data. Just admit that you're wrong and move along. At least stop digging.

[TheH2]

Let me say this again. In 2017, the salary cap, which is a formula based on league revenue, increased by 7.7%. That's quite the downward trajectory.

Pre-kneeling data. Just admit that you're wrong and move along. At least stop digging.

2016 revenue - post kneeling data. Any other reasons why I'm wrong?

[awesome guy]

Let me say this again. In 2017, the salary cap, which is a formula based on league revenue, increased by 7.7%. That's quite the downward trajectory.

Pre-kneeling data. Just admit that you're wrong and move along. At least stop digging.

2016 revenue - post kneeling data. Any other reasons why I'm wrong?

It was 1 kneeler then, not every team as is happening now which has every revenue metric down. Stop being an idiot on this.

[cwtcr hokie]

Unqualified my ass. Apple and the NFL are not analogous. At all.

Not sure what your @$$ has to do with it. It's just a simple unqualified question. Is the NFL failing? Not, is the NFL TV rating declining.

Relative to past performance? Yes, they are failing.

I agree, relative to last year. That wasn't the statement. I have never disputed that.

Viewers are fickle like that. Moreover, the NFL doesn't have product cycles like Apple. The NFL is an entertainment enterprise, and their performers have chosen to hijack the NFL owners stage to make a political statement. That, among other issues, is starting to hurt their advertising revenue.

In regards to Apple, it was the first annual decrease in revenue. So it wasn't just product cycle.

Saying that the NFL is failing is like saying Alabama is failing because they are beating opponents by less. The NFL is still #1, by far. Nothing is close to touching it.

LOL, come on. They have less viewers and more empty seats. You're full retard on this, they're on a downward trajectory and will continue till making changes. Guess will have to wait for The Atlantic to post an article saying so much as you seem to rely on memorization of articles instead of critical thinking to form arguments.

Let me say this again. In 2017, the salary cap, which is a formula based on league revenue, increased by 7.7%. That's quite the downward trajectory.

that is because it is based on the tv contracts that were signed before the ratings started going down. Thus why ESPN is having the issues it has and CBS has to lower earnings est. The tv contracts written by the networks were based on the ratings continuing to increase and thus they could price the ad buys higher. That is not happening so they have not been able to increase ad buys or even get all the advertising sold from what I have read. That is why both pro and college ball are going to have some cutting to do in the coming years as the tv contracts will not continue their upward trajectory