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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:54 pm 
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...so they can tax it, of course!

http://www.npr.org/2017/11/16/564650399/seattle-defends-its-new-high-earner-income-tax-in-court


On the other side is Paul Lawrence, an attorney litigating the case on behalf of the city of Seattle.

"There's no provision in the state constitution that says you can't have an income tax," he said.

Instead, what's preventing a state income tax is an interpretation—a wrong interpretation, Lawrence says. Because, he says, income is not property.

"It comes to you, you then take it and turn it into property—whether it's a stock or bond or a piece of property—but it's a very different type of thing," he says.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Twisting definitions is the key to how socialists accomplish their goals. They're liars at heart.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:13 pm 
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I love this:

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Some business owners support the tax. Molly Moon's Homemade Ice Cream chain founder and CEO, Molly Moon Neitzel, is in favor of it to fund the city's pressing needs, like affordable housing, she says. She doesn't earn enough to be taxed ... ."


Isn't that special?

It's easy to be generous with other people's money.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:36 pm 
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So is it not property because it's an electronic transfer? If they paid in gold, is that then property? But if it's greenbacks, it's not property? Is a paper check property?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:42 am 
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250K is not peanuts. That is a small/mid size company Pres/C Level salary, A dentist, anesthesiologist, Bank VP/Pres. etc. Joe software developer or joe amazon program manager is not making 250K base salary per year. Having said that, the tax is a shitshow and borderline socialist.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:35 am 
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So, if currency is not property, then it can't be a crime to take it from someone. Steal it all, Washingtonians! Rob your neighbors blind! The city of Seattle says it's not a crime!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:17 am 
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This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:30 am 
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BigDave wrote:
I love this:

Quote:
Some business owners support the tax. Molly Moon's Homemade Ice Cream chain founder and CEO, Molly Moon Neitzel, is in favor of it to fund the city's pressing needs, like affordable housing, she says. She doesn't earn enough to be taxed ... ."


Isn't that special?

It's easy to be generous with other people's money.



I think that the majority of people think this way. It's not special just to her. I've worked for both family run businesses and publicly traded ones. The family run businesses are waaaaay more stingy on day to day items than the publicly traded ones. All stems from your quote above.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:03 pm 
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fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Must city governments do just fine taxing real estate, possibly sales, and various kinds of registration.

The thing i absolutely detest is when there are a whole boatload of things that get taxed - I'd rather we have only an income tax AND NOTHING ELSE or only a sales tax AND NOTHING ELSE. That gives you transparency in taxation - they can't tinker with 20 different numbers and hide that they're raising your taxes.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:59 pm 
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BigDave wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Must city governments do just fine taxing real estate, possibly sales, and various kinds of registration.

The thing i absolutely detest is when there are a whole boatload of things that get taxed - I'd rather we have only an income tax AND NOTHING ELSE or only a sales tax AND NOTHING ELSE. That gives you transparency in taxation - they can't tinker with 20 different numbers and hide that they're raising your taxes.



Exactly.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:18 am 
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fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:20 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:24 pm 
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ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


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it has been explained to you at least 20 times, sorry you are not very smart


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:52 pm 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


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it has been explained to you at least 20 times, sorry you are not very smart


that must be it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:39 pm 
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ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


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Odumbo added how much to the deficit? ~$9 Trillion was it?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:52 pm 
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HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Odumbo added how much to the deficit? ~$9 Trillion was it?


OK. Was it wrong then and right now? What’s your point?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:27 pm 
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ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


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Odumbo added how much to the deficit? ~$9 Trillion was it?


OK. Was it wrong then and right now? What’s your point?


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My point is pointing out hypocrisy. I don't remember you (or anyone on the left) saying a word about the deficit when Odumbo was spinning the debt clock uncontrollably.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 pm 
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HokieJoe wrote:
My point is pointing out hypocrisy. I don't remember you (or anyone on the left) saying a word about the deficit when Odumbo was spinning the debt clock uncontrollably.

They were too busy saying how great Obeezycare would be at saving us $.....

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:44 pm 
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HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Odumbo added how much to the deficit? ~$9 Trillion was it?


OK. Was it wrong then and right now? What’s your point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As for me, you should have paid more attention then.

but are you no better than "you did it, so I am too?" Do you have any principals, or just shills for the party and Trump? Are you no better than those you denigrate?


My point is pointing out hypocrisy. I don't remember you (or anyone on the left) saying a word about the deficit when Odumbo was spinning the debt clock uncontrollably.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:42 pm 
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Pot.....meet kettle.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:42 pm 
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ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
[quote="fatman"]This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Dude, the state of WA has lots of tax, high sales tax and property tax, thus why they do not have an income tax in WA state. Of course that is not enough money as it is super easy to spend other people's money..... of course this whole crap show will collapse as the number of givers continues to decrease and the takers continue to increase. No local, state or fed entity can tax enough for them to say they have enough of our money.....you do see that don't you?


Is this why you support Trump and Congressional Republican attempts to add at least 1.5 Trillion to the deficit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Odumbo added how much to the deficit? ~$9 Trillion was it?


OK. Was it wrong then and right now? What’s your point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As for me, you should have paid more attention then.

but are you no better than "you did it, so I am too?" Do you have any principals, or just shills for the party and Trump? Are you no better than those you denigrate?


My point is pointing out hypocrisy. I don't remember you (or anyone on the left) saying a word about the deficit when Odumbo was spinning the debt clock uncontrollably.
[/quote]

OK. Do you have any thoughts on the 1.5T increase?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:52 am 
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BigDave wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Must city governments do just fine taxing real estate, possibly sales, and various kinds of registration.

The thing i absolutely detest is when there are a whole boatload of things that get taxed - I'd rather we have only an income tax AND NOTHING ELSE or only a sales tax AND NOTHING ELSE. That gives you transparency in taxation - they can't tinker with 20 different numbers and hide that they're raising your taxes.

Taxing personal property is a way to tax the rich and leave the poor alone. A big car, a new car? Then higher value and more tax. A bigger house? Then a higher tax. You own other things like motorcycles or boats? Also taxed. That's all it is, just a means to extract more tax revenue from those that have money.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:09 am 
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fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Is income property?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Quote:
Seattle’s income tax on the wealthy is illegal, judge rules

The city had argued that its tax would apply to “total income” instead of net. The city also described it as an excise tax, imposed on those who live in Seattle in the same way excise taxes are imposed on companies that do business in the city.

The judge disagreed.

“ … the City’s tax, which is labeled ‘Income Tax,’ is exactly that,” he wrote. “It cannot be restyled as an ‘excise tax’ on the … ‘privileges’ of receiving revenue in Seattle or choosing to live in Seattle.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... dge-rules/

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:07 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
fatman wrote:
This whole thing seems silly. Some minimal level of Gov't is required, I've yet to see a proposal for how to fund that outside of taxation, income is a natural source for tax collectors to collect against. Sounds like they need to go for a common sense approach and repeal the prohibition on income tax to end this silly debate.

The US Tech industry is heavily concentrated in about 2 dozen cities with heavily educated workforces. The tech industries are powering some pretty powerful income inequality to a point where you've started to see social issues cropping up. Seattle and SF have that problem worse than most.


Is income property?


Fatman’s point is that their constitution should be amended to avoid the mental gymnastics.

To me, earned income is akin to an annuity (t=0) and thus property. But good arguments can be made on each side.


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