United We Stand - uwsboard.com

Virginia Tech fans discussing politics, religion, and football
It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:03 am

Time zone: America/New_York


UWS DWF UWS Lunch UWS Sports UWS Help TSL Football TSL Lounge TSL MBB Acronyms Top 25 Topics


Forum rules


Please be civil.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 2041
Alma Mater: Penn State
They are launching more and more powerful missiles. Is there a way we can tell immediately if there is a nuke on board since there is less than a 1/2 hour window?

https://conservativedailypost.com/newes ... s-details/

There is a problem that, no matter how much the White House attempts to silence, will not be squelched. North Korea has been manufacturing nuclear weapons at a rate that has seen their progress and powerful payloads grow by leaps and bounds. This is happening as they promise to use them on us, something that even the Soviet Union did not do (they threatened, never outright promised).

The New York Times reminds us just how advanced the Hermit Kingdom has become as they write that the new rocket which the self-titled “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-un sent into the skies as is a “new type” of weapon that is far more deadly than any that they have ever tested before.

The state-controlled North Korean news agency has said that “the Hwasong-15. North Korea said it carried a “super-large heavy warhead which is capable of striking the whole mainland of the U.S.” This weapon is said to surpass the power of the Hwasong-14 tested only last summer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:25 am
Posts: 8677
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 2041
Alma Mater: Penn State
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:25 am
Posts: 8677
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


there is no good solution, at this point I assume the folks in the gov. are just hoping that fatboy is just bluffing. Fatboy seems to realize that his country is vaporized if he actually fires at anything


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 2041
Alma Mater: Penn State
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


there is no good solution, at this point I assume the folks in the gov. are just hoping that fatboy is just bluffing. Fatboy seems to realize that his country is vaporized if he actually fires at anything


I don't think he is bluffing. He is empowered because nobody is stopping him. And a year ago he didn't have the missile technology to hit anywhere in the US. Who gave him that?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:30 pm
Posts: 9563
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


there is no good solution, at this point I assume the folks in the gov. are just hoping that fatboy is just bluffing. Fatboy seems to realize that his country is vaporized if he actually fires at anything


I don't think he is bluffing. He is empowered because nobody is stopping him. And a year ago he didn't have the missile technology to hit anywhere in the US. Who gave him that?


Thank our governor & Bill C who handed it over to Red China in exchange for a presidential library hookah lounge and massage room


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:25 am
Posts: 8677
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


there is no good solution, at this point I assume the folks in the gov. are just hoping that fatboy is just bluffing. Fatboy seems to realize that his country is vaporized if he actually fires at anything


I don't think he is bluffing. He is empowered because nobody is stopping him. And a year ago he didn't have the missile technology to hit anywhere in the US. Who gave him that?


I think he is bluffing as he knows if he actually aims at something, we can knock down what he fires and he would be vaporized as a country


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 5125
Alma Mater: Virginia Tech
Party: Eclectic
I'm not too concerned. NK is playing chicken, AGAIN. It's the same game they've been playing for the past 20+yrs.

_________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire


"Christian socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat" Karl Marx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:29 pm
Posts: 5813
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


there is no good solution, at this point I assume the folks in the gov. are just hoping that fatboy is just bluffing. Fatboy seems to realize that his country is vaporized if he actually fires at anything


I don't think he is bluffing. He is empowered because nobody is stopping him. And a year ago he didn't have the missile technology to hit anywhere in the US. Who gave him that?


I think he is bluffing as he knows if he actually aims at something, we can knock down what he fires and he would be vaporized as a country

There is significant doubt as to the full capability of the US missile defense system to "knock down" missles from NK.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 2041
Alma Mater: Penn State
HokieJoe wrote:
I'm not too concerned. NK is playing chicken, AGAIN. It's the same game they've been playing for the past 20+yrs.


20 years ago, they didn't have these missiles or nukes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 5125
Alma Mater: Virginia Tech
Party: Eclectic
Techmomof2 wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
I'm not too concerned. NK is playing chicken, AGAIN. It's the same game they've been playing for the past 20+yrs.


20 years ago, they didn't have these missiles or nukes.



They literally stand to gain nothing by launching a nuke at another country. Unless they think they're own annihalation is something to crow about.

_________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire


"Christian socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat" Karl Marx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:59 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:58 pm
Posts: 19089
Location: Fake Dossier Writing Center
Party: Draintheswamp
HokieJoe wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
I'm not too concerned. NK is playing chicken, AGAIN. It's the same game they've been playing for the past 20+yrs.


20 years ago, they didn't have these missiles or nukes.



They literally stand to gain nothing by launching a nuke at another country. Unless they think they're own annihalation is something to crow about.


Yeah I think more and more that it's an extortion scheme - until he's overthrown in a coup. I think that's a real possibility if he can't use nukes to extort the rest of the world.

_________________
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
- Gen. Omar Bradley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:24 pm
Posts: 780
Alma Mater: Virginia Tech
Party: Independent
Techmomof2 wrote:
They are launching more and more powerful missiles. Is there a way we can tell immediately if there is a nuke on board since there is less than a 1/2 hour window?

https://conservativedailypost.com/newes ... s-details/

There is a problem that, no matter how much the White House attempts to silence, will not be squelched. North Korea has been manufacturing nuclear weapons at a rate that has seen their progress and powerful payloads grow by leaps and bounds. This is happening as they promise to use them on us, something that even the Soviet Union did not do (they threatened, never outright promised).

The New York Times reminds us just how advanced the Hermit Kingdom has become as they write that the new rocket which the self-titled “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-un sent into the skies as is a “new type” of weapon that is far more deadly than any that they have ever tested before.

The state-controlled North Korean news agency has said that “the Hwasong-15. North Korea said it carried a “super-large heavy warhead which is capable of striking the whole mainland of the U.S.” This weapon is said to surpass the power of the Hwasong-14 tested only last summer.


There are no "good" options beyond diplomacy. Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul. We will destroy some of his weapons, even most, but we won't get them all. The only decent military option was when they didn't have nukes BUT 20 or 30 years ago, China was not as open to the west culturally and economically. Likely, China fully backs up NK at that time. I don't think they're so willing to now, but NK has nukes now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:12 am
Posts: 5125
Alma Mater: Virginia Tech
Party: Eclectic
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
I'm not too concerned. NK is playing chicken, AGAIN. It's the same game they've been playing for the past 20+yrs.


20 years ago, they didn't have these missiles or nukes.



They literally stand to gain nothing by launching a nuke at another country. Unless they think they're own annihalation is something to crow about.


Yeah I think more and more that it's an extortion scheme - until he's overthrown in a coup. I think that's a real possibility if he can't use nukes to extort the rest of the world.



Extortion and acting as China's proxy is all its ever been IMO.

_________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire


"Christian socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat" Karl Marx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:58 pm
Posts: 19089
Location: Fake Dossier Writing Center
Party: Draintheswamp
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.

_________________
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
- Gen. Omar Bradley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:31 pm
Posts: 6465
Sadly our options are limited thanks to Obama gutting our missile defense system.

_________________
"My goal is to destroy the New York Times and CNN... Once our voices are heard, then Democracy will happen."

- Andrew Breitbart


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:24 pm
Posts: 780
Alma Mater: Virginia Tech
Party: Independent
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 2041
Alma Mater: Penn State
ElbertoHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


But if they keep launching missiles, how do we know if there is a nuke onboard?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:56 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:58 pm
Posts: 19089
Location: Fake Dossier Writing Center
Party: Draintheswamp
ElbertoHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


I wouldn't put money on that. Their artillery is vastly overstated. Some of their pieces are within range of part of Seoul. All are mapped out. They only have so many nukes. We also have non conventional, non nuclear options.

Not saying it's not risky, or there are options where a considerable number of people aren't at risk of dying, just that it's not inevitable that millions would die.

_________________
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
- Gen. Omar Bradley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:57 pm
Posts: 8466
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
Sadly our options are limited thanks to Obama gutting our missile defense system.


How did he gut the missile defense system? He scrapped the Poland and Czech systems, but he increased the capabilities in Asia Pacific. Were his budget cuts a good idea? I don't think so. But, the Aegis systems they put in place are better than the crap that GW was going to implement.
Was it perfect? I don't think so, but saying that he gutted it is not correct.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:24 pm
Posts: 780
Alma Mater: Virginia Tech
Party: Independent
Techmomof2 wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


But if they keep launching missiles, how do we know if there is a nuke onboard?


They have to make an educated guess. By sniffing the air after nuclear tests, they can tell what kind of bomb was set off as the different types give off unique radiation patterns and isotopes. If they can get to the alarm clock h-bomb design, they can most likely miniaturize it. I'd guess through a mixture of espionage and engineering inference, they can determine whether the missiles are capable of carrying a warhead and whether that warhead could be made small enough to fit into a missile. I can't know for sure and I doubt the West knows for absolutely sure because espionage into NK is extremely poor compared to other "enemies."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:29 pm
Posts: 5813
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


I wouldn't put money on that. Their artillery is vastly overstated. Some of their pieces are within range of part of Seoul. All are mapped out. They only have so many nukes. We also have non conventional, non nuclear options.

Not saying it's not risky, or there are options where a considerable number of people aren't at risk of dying, just that it's not inevitable that millions would die.

NK conventional missiles are abundant and will annihilate Seoul.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:39 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:58 pm
Posts: 19089
Location: Fake Dossier Writing Center
Party: Draintheswamp
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


I wouldn't put money on that. Their artillery is vastly overstated. Some of their pieces are within range of part of Seoul. All are mapped out. They only have so many nukes. We also have non conventional, non nuclear options.

Not saying it's not risky, or there are options where a considerable number of people aren't at risk of dying, just that it's not inevitable that millions would die.

NK conventional missiles are abundant and will annihilate Seoul.


Which missiles are you talking about?

_________________
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
- Gen. Omar Bradley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:31 pm
Posts: 6465
HokieFanDC wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
Sadly our options are limited thanks to Obama gutting our missile defense system.


How did he gut the missile defense system? He scrapped the Poland and Czech systems, but he increased the capabilities in Asia Pacific. Were his budget cuts a good idea? I don't think so. But, the Aegis systems they put in place are better than the crap that GW was going to implement.
Was it perfect? I don't think so, but saying that he gutted it is not correct.


Quote:
In 2009, the Administration also decided to decrease the number of GMD interceptors in the United States from 44 to 30, arguing that the long-range ballistic missile threat to the U.S. homeland was progressing more slowly than anticipated by the Bush Administration. The Obama Administration was wrong and later reversed the decision. To make matters worse, the Administration also let the GMD system go untested for more than two years.[24] Continued testing is critical for validating the performance of the system and for maintaining critical skills within the workforce. Additionally, it is sometimes impossible to replicate conditions in space on the ground; therefore, some of the test failures can only be discovered during actual flight and intercept tests. A robust testing program is critical for validating the system and its algorithms, and for ensuring that it will be capable of protecting the United States from a long-range ballistic missile attack.

The Obama Administration has admitted that its GMD policy was wrong. In March 2013, then–Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel announced that the United States will deploy an additional 14 GMD interceptors to Alaska, which was President’s Bush’s original number.[25] The policy change was prompted by a recognition that the long-range ballistic missile threat to the United States has not diminished, as the Obama Administration had argued, and is, in fact, growing. The Administration lost years of additional protection that would exist had the GMD system been deployed in the numbers originally planned.

Image

Reducing the number of interceptors and causing unnecessary delays in the long run, however, are only some of the ways in which the Administration undermined the GMD system. The Administration also decided to cancel the Multiple Kill Vehicle (MKV) program in 2009.[26] The MKV program was designed to give each U.S. interceptor multiple kinetic kill vehicles to increase the chance of a shoot down and increase the efficiency of interceptors. The Administration called the program “not necessary” and argued that the United States does not need the program as a hedge should the long-range ballistic missile threat advance faster than expected.[27] Yet again, the Administration was wrong. In August 2015, it awarded a contract for the Multiple-Object Kill Vehicle (MOKV), essentially the same concept, losing the country millions of dollars invested in the MKV program, and valuable time during which the MKV program could have been further developed. The MKV program was scheduled to be deployed in 2017. In 2009, the Administration argued that it could cancel the MKV program because it would focus on “assessing the feasibility of destroying threat missiles early in flight.”[28] Yet, it cancelled or reduced almost every single program capable of doing so in the subsequent years.


http://www.heritage.org/defense/report/ ... ded-legacy

_________________
"My goal is to destroy the New York Times and CNN... Once our voices are heard, then Democracy will happen."

- Andrew Breitbart


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:27 pm
Posts: 1961
If he is aggressive militarily to the United States or South Korea, beyond "drills", then we should attack his country and overthrow the government... would take about 15 minutes to control Pyongyang - Their people are starving and top military leaders will turn on Kim in short order.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Time zone: America/New_York


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group Color scheme by ColorizeIt!