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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:00 am 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

That said, I don't think we use military action unless they're about to pull the trigger, which wouldn't be a rational decision for Kim Jung Un unless he's facing a coup/uprising.


I'm betting on that fact that we can't simultaneously destroy ALL of his nuclear capabilities as well as the massive amounts of conventional guns/missles that NK already has pointed at Seoul. Even if a fraction of either of these groups of weapons survives and is able to attack Seoul, it's a big deal. Obviously the nuclear weapons are the bigger deal.


I wouldn't put money on that. Their artillery is vastly overstated. Some of their pieces are within range of part of Seoul. All are mapped out. They only have so many nukes. We also have non conventional, non nuclear options.

Not saying it's not risky, or there are options where a considerable number of people aren't at risk of dying, just that it's not inevitable that millions would die.

NK conventional missiles are abundant and will annihilate Seoul.


Which missiles are you talking about?

Current intelligence estimates NK has about 1,000 short and medium range missiles.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:04 am 
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133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
the problem is any strike we do means parts of south korea get levelled (an all that mfg that is located there)


Yes, but do we sit and wait for a nuke to be onboard? Would we know until it hit the USA? Hawaii has a 20 min heads up if we knew.


there is no good solution, at this point I assume the folks in the gov. are just hoping that fatboy is just bluffing. Fatboy seems to realize that his country is vaporized if he actually fires at anything


I don't think he is bluffing. He is empowered because nobody is stopping him. And a year ago he didn't have the missile technology to hit anywhere in the US. Who gave him that?


I think he is bluffing as he knows if he actually aims at something, we can knock down what he fires and he would be vaporized as a country

There is significant doubt as to the full capability of the US missile defense system to "knock down" missles from NK.



Oh for sure, people will die if we go at it with Fatboy, South korea will take heavy casualties, its a mess


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:06 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
They are launching more and more powerful missiles. Is there a way we can tell immediately if there is a nuke on board since there is less than a 1/2 hour window?

https://conservativedailypost.com/newes ... s-details/

There is a problem that, no matter how much the White House attempts to silence, will not be squelched. North Korea has been manufacturing nuclear weapons at a rate that has seen their progress and powerful payloads grow by leaps and bounds. This is happening as they promise to use them on us, something that even the Soviet Union did not do (they threatened, never outright promised).

The New York Times reminds us just how advanced the Hermit Kingdom has become as they write that the new rocket which the self-titled “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-un sent into the skies as is a “new type” of weapon that is far more deadly than any that they have ever tested before.

The state-controlled North Korean news agency has said that “the Hwasong-15. North Korea said it carried a “super-large heavy warhead which is capable of striking the whole mainland of the U.S.” This weapon is said to surpass the power of the Hwasong-14 tested only last summer.


There are no "good" options beyond diplomacy. Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul. We will destroy some of his weapons, even most, but we won't get them all. The only decent military option was when they didn't have nukes BUT 20 or 30 years ago, China was not as open to the west culturally and economically. Likely, China fully backs up NK at that time. I don't think they're so willing to now, but NK has nukes now.


I agree on diplomacy, but you are living in a fantasy world if you can beleive anything fatboy says or can even get them to have reasonable talks. Of course we will keep trying but it takes both sides and only one side (that would be us) is interested in diplomacy


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:12 am 
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A case for a preemptive strike. What do you think?
https://thepatriotfactor.blogspot.com/2 ... d-war.html

“No one starts a war ~or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so ~ without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it.” - Prussian General and military theorist Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz who stressed the 'so-called' moral and political aspects of war

Tick-tock...the 'doomsday clock' has been set...and the date of striking zero is fast approaching.

Fast approaching and coming close on the heels of President Trump's recently announcing that the U.S. was re-designating North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism...North Korea issued a government statement via its state news agency KCNA to the affect that last week's mobile night missile launch demonstrated to the world that Pyongyang would be able to strike back at any preventative strike taken against the 'Hermit State.'

Testing yet another ICBM...this one called Hwasong-15 (Mars-15 in Korean)...this one being North Korea's most powerful missile to date and a missile topped with a "super-large heavy warhead" ..saw said missile...and it was a missile actually fired off by Kim Jong-un himself... reaching an altitude of about 2,780 miles...more than ten times the height of the international space station...and then flying 600 miles eastward during what was said to be a 53 minute flight that ended with (supposedly) accurately hitting a sea target within Japanese waters.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:00 am 
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Techmomof2 wrote:
A case for a preemptive strike. What do you think?
https://thepatriotfactor.blogspot.com/2 ... d-war.html

“No one starts a war ~or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so ~ without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it.” - Prussian General and military theorist Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz who stressed the 'so-called' moral and political aspects of war

Tick-tock...the 'doomsday clock' has been set...and the date of striking zero is fast approaching.

Fast approaching and coming close on the heels of President Trump's recently announcing that the U.S. was re-designating North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism...North Korea issued a government statement via its state news agency KCNA to the affect that last week's mobile night missile launch demonstrated to the world that Pyongyang would be able to strike back at any preventative strike taken against the 'Hermit State.'

Testing yet another ICBM...this one called Hwasong-15 (Mars-15 in Korean)...this one being North Korea's most powerful missile to date and a missile topped with a "super-large heavy warhead" ..saw said missile...and it was a missile actually fired off by Kim Jong-un himself... reaching an altitude of about 2,780 miles...more than ten times the height of the international space station...and then flying 600 miles eastward during what was said to be a 53 minute flight that ended with (supposedly) accurately hitting a sea target within Japanese waters.


the article makes good points, just don't think america or South Korea would go that route


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:44 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
A case for a preemptive strike. What do you think?
https://thepatriotfactor.blogspot.com/2 ... d-war.html

“No one starts a war ~or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so ~ without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it.” - Prussian General and military theorist Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz who stressed the 'so-called' moral and political aspects of war

Tick-tock...the 'doomsday clock' has been set...and the date of striking zero is fast approaching.

Fast approaching and coming close on the heels of President Trump's recently announcing that the U.S. was re-designating North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism...North Korea issued a government statement via its state news agency KCNA to the affect that last week's mobile night missile launch demonstrated to the world that Pyongyang would be able to strike back at any preventative strike taken against the 'Hermit State.'

Testing yet another ICBM...this one called Hwasong-15 (Mars-15 in Korean)...this one being North Korea's most powerful missile to date and a missile topped with a "super-large heavy warhead" ..saw said missile...and it was a missile actually fired off by Kim Jong-un himself... reaching an altitude of about 2,780 miles...more than ten times the height of the international space station...and then flying 600 miles eastward during what was said to be a 53 minute flight that ended with (supposedly) accurately hitting a sea target within Japanese waters.


the article makes good points, just don't think america or South Korea would go that route


So, if we wait until there is a city nuked or an EMP, then what should we do?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:25 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
They are launching more and more powerful missiles. Is there a way we can tell immediately if there is a nuke on board since there is less than a 1/2 hour window?

https://conservativedailypost.com/newes ... s-details/

There is a problem that, no matter how much the White House attempts to silence, will not be squelched. North Korea has been manufacturing nuclear weapons at a rate that has seen their progress and powerful payloads grow by leaps and bounds. This is happening as they promise to use them on us, something that even the Soviet Union did not do (they threatened, never outright promised).

The New York Times reminds us just how advanced the Hermit Kingdom has become as they write that the new rocket which the self-titled “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-un sent into the skies as is a “new type” of weapon that is far more deadly than any that they have ever tested before.

The state-controlled North Korean news agency has said that “the Hwasong-15. North Korea said it carried a “super-large heavy warhead which is capable of striking the whole mainland of the U.S.” This weapon is said to surpass the power of the Hwasong-14 tested only last summer.


There are no "good" options beyond diplomacy. Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul. We will destroy some of his weapons, even most, but we won't get them all. The only decent military option was when they didn't have nukes BUT 20 or 30 years ago, China was not as open to the west culturally and economically. Likely, China fully backs up NK at that time. I don't think they're so willing to now, but NK has nukes now.


I agree on diplomacy, but you are living in a fantasy world if you can beleive anything fatboy says or can even get them to have reasonable talks. Of course we will keep trying but it takes both sides and only one side (that would be us) is interested in diplomacy


Thanks, I was confused which fatboy you were referencing.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:33 am 
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Posts: 8658
TheH2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
They are launching more and more powerful missiles. Is there a way we can tell immediately if there is a nuke on board since there is less than a 1/2 hour window?

https://conservativedailypost.com/newes ... s-details/

There is a problem that, no matter how much the White House attempts to silence, will not be squelched. North Korea has been manufacturing nuclear weapons at a rate that has seen their progress and powerful payloads grow by leaps and bounds. This is happening as they promise to use them on us, something that even the Soviet Union did not do (they threatened, never outright promised).

The New York Times reminds us just how advanced the Hermit Kingdom has become as they write that the new rocket which the self-titled “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-un sent into the skies as is a “new type” of weapon that is far more deadly than any that they have ever tested before.

The state-controlled North Korean news agency has said that “the Hwasong-15. North Korea said it carried a “super-large heavy warhead which is capable of striking the whole mainland of the U.S.” This weapon is said to surpass the power of the Hwasong-14 tested only last summer.


There are no "good" options beyond diplomacy. Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul. We will destroy some of his weapons, even most, but we won't get them all. The only decent military option was when they didn't have nukes BUT 20 or 30 years ago, China was not as open to the west culturally and economically. Likely, China fully backs up NK at that time. I don't think they're so willing to now, but NK has nukes now.


I agree on diplomacy, but you are living in a fantasy world if you can beleive anything fatboy says or can even get them to have reasonable talks. Of course we will keep trying but it takes both sides and only one side (that would be us) is interested in diplomacy


Thanks, I was confused which fatboy you were referencing.


not sure why but that is standard for you


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:34 am 
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Techmomof2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
A case for a preemptive strike. What do you think?
https://thepatriotfactor.blogspot.com/2 ... d-war.html

“No one starts a war ~or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so ~ without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it.” - Prussian General and military theorist Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz who stressed the 'so-called' moral and political aspects of war

Tick-tock...the 'doomsday clock' has been set...and the date of striking zero is fast approaching.

Fast approaching and coming close on the heels of President Trump's recently announcing that the U.S. was re-designating North Korea as a state sponsor of terrorism...North Korea issued a government statement via its state news agency KCNA to the affect that last week's mobile night missile launch demonstrated to the world that Pyongyang would be able to strike back at any preventative strike taken against the 'Hermit State.'

Testing yet another ICBM...this one called Hwasong-15 (Mars-15 in Korean)...this one being North Korea's most powerful missile to date and a missile topped with a "super-large heavy warhead" ..saw said missile...and it was a missile actually fired off by Kim Jong-un himself... reaching an altitude of about 2,780 miles...more than ten times the height of the international space station...and then flying 600 miles eastward during what was said to be a 53 minute flight that ended with (supposedly) accurately hitting a sea target within Japanese waters.


the article makes good points, just don't think america or South Korea would go that route


So, if we wait until there is a city nuked or an EMP, then what should we do?


There are no right answers or good answers but prob something Trump will have to deal with, just be thankful Obummer is not in office now


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:48 am 
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Posts: 2538
cwtcr hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
Techmomof2 wrote:
They are launching more and more powerful missiles. Is there a way we can tell immediately if there is a nuke on board since there is less than a 1/2 hour window?

https://conservativedailypost.com/newes ... s-details/

There is a problem that, no matter how much the White House attempts to silence, will not be squelched. North Korea has been manufacturing nuclear weapons at a rate that has seen their progress and powerful payloads grow by leaps and bounds. This is happening as they promise to use them on us, something that even the Soviet Union did not do (they threatened, never outright promised).

The New York Times reminds us just how advanced the Hermit Kingdom has become as they write that the new rocket which the self-titled “Dear Leader” Kim Jong-un sent into the skies as is a “new type” of weapon that is far more deadly than any that they have ever tested before.

The state-controlled North Korean news agency has said that “the Hwasong-15. North Korea said it carried a “super-large heavy warhead which is capable of striking the whole mainland of the U.S.” This weapon is said to surpass the power of the Hwasong-14 tested only last summer.


There are no "good" options beyond diplomacy. Any military action by the west will result in millions of dead around Seoul. We will destroy some of his weapons, even most, but we won't get them all. The only decent military option was when they didn't have nukes BUT 20 or 30 years ago, China was not as open to the west culturally and economically. Likely, China fully backs up NK at that time. I don't think they're so willing to now, but NK has nukes now.


I agree on diplomacy, but you are living in a fantasy world if you can beleive anything fatboy says or can even get them to have reasonable talks. Of course we will keep trying but it takes both sides and only one side (that would be us) is interested in diplomacy


Thanks, I was confused which fatboy you were referencing.


not sure why but that is standard for you


Quote:
you are living in a fantasy world if you can beleive anything fatboy says

You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 pm 
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HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:30 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.

LOL......please, keep defending that load of crap. Some people got more affordable healthcare at the expense of others.

And no, it’s just as appropriate to say we were promised savings.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:54 pm 
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HokieHam wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.

LOL......please, keep defending that load of crap. Some people got more affordable healthcare at the expense of others.

And no, it’s just as appropriate to say we were promised savings.

Not sure where I defended. Just a few factual statements and a little conjecture - did you keep your doc?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Just saw this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ear-japan/

A commercial airline crew witnessed the flight of an enormous North Korean missile believed capable of reaching Washington, D.C., Cathay Pacific officials confirmed Monday.

“Be advised, we witnessed the DPRK missile blow up and fall apart near our current location,” the crew of Cathay Pacific Flight 893 reported Wednesday, according to a company message obtained by the South China Morning Post. The company referred to North Korea by the abbreviation of its official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

On Monday, the company said in a statement that the San Francisco-to-Hong Kong flight was “far from the event location” and continued flying normally after the missile reentered the atmosphere.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Also Cyber Attacks
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cybe ... SKCN18H020

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea’s main spy agency has a special cell called Unit 180 that is likely to have launched some of its most daring and successful cyber attacks, according to defectors, officials and internet security experts.

North Korea has been blamed in recent years for a series of online attacks, mostly on financial networks, in the United States, South Korea and over a dozen other countries.

Cyber security researchers have also said they have found technical evidence that could link North Korea with the global WannaCry “ransomware” cyber attack that infected more than 300,000 computers in 150 countries this month. Pyongyang has called the allegation “ridiculous”.

The crux of the allegations against North Korea is its connection to a hacking group called Lazarus that is linked to last year’s $81 million cyber heist at the Bangladesh central bank and the 2014 attack on Sony’s Hollywood studio. The U.S. government has blamed North Korea for the Sony hack and some U.S. officials have said prosecutors are building a case against Pyongyang in the Bangladesh Bank theft.
==================================================

And a new rare rocket fuel

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/worl ... siles.html

When North Korea launched long-range missiles this summer, and again on Friday, demonstrating its ability to strike Guam and perhaps the United States mainland, it powered the weapons with a rare, potent rocket fuel that American intelligence agencies believe initially came from China and Russia.

The United States government is scrambling to determine whether those two countries are still providing the ingredients for the highly volatile fuel and, if so, whether North Korea’s supply can be interrupted, either through sanctions or sabotage. Among those who study the issue, there is a growing belief that the United States should focus on the fuel, either to halt it, if possible, or to take advantage of its volatile properties to slow the North’s program.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:08 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.

LOL......please, keep defending that load of crap. Some people got more affordable healthcare at the expense of others.

And no, it’s just as appropriate to say we were promised savings.

Not sure where I defended. Just a few factual statements and a little conjecture - did you keep your doc?

I got to keep my doc because I have what they call a Cadillac plan. My wife and child did not and had to find different primary care doctors.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:46 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.

Yep. Screwed things up for 90% to help 5%


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
[
Current intelligence estimates NK has about 1,000 short and medium range missiles.


There's pictures of NK soldiers with wooden AK's. How many of those missiles (probably SCUD equivalent at best) do you think are actually functional? At the same time, our own missile defense systems have improved dramatically since the first gulf war. Now imagine a scenario where we have the initiative.

Not saying there wouldn't be carnage, but I think it could be mitigated to a great extent. We also have some aces up our sleeves.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:37 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.

Yep. Screwed things up for 90% to help 5%

You see.....this is okay with leftists.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:28 pm 
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I think it's a bum rush out if NK once war breaks out. This will be what Rumsfeld expected in Iraq, greeted as liberators.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:55 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.



:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:30 am 
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HokieJoe wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
You should pay attention to our president and you'd understand the ambiguity. Still looking for that birth certificate. Or the fabricated grab her by the pussy, or the.......

Heh.....I’m still looking for my healthcare savings.


Much more appropriate would be to say you are looking for your old Dr., but chances are, if you have a Dr., you do have the same one. There were savings in the bill, some people did actually get more affordable healthcare, not everyone of course.



:lol:

Yep, 5% got more affordable health insurance. Unfortunately, the other 90% didn't.


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