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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:13 am 
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Location: Kicking over crayons in a safe space for libruls....
This is a perfect example of their ultimate goal. Control. And people clamour for it..........


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:18 am 
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Seattle must be chocked by full authoritarian douchebags.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:24 am 
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HokieJoe wrote:
Seattle must be chocked by full authoritarian douchebags.


Seattle should be studied by every student across the country to understand how liberal policies are failures.

========================================

These People Are Shameless - Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Is Worse Than You Thought
Tim Worstall , Contributor
Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

Yesterday we had the release of the follow up report into the effects of the city's rise to a $15 minimum wage. That report showed that this was not a good idea, that the wage rise made the low paid worse off, not better. I detailed the why of all that here.

Quote:
The finding really is that the rise in wages per hour leads to a reduction in total incomes for these very low wage workers that the policy is aimed at helping. It's probably not a good policy then. Note that this is about a rise to $13, the planned $15 an hour is going to be worse.


Or as the AP report has it:

Quote:
A University of Washington team studying the law’s effects found that the law has boosted pay in low-wage jobs since it took effect in 2015, but that it also caused a 9 percent reduction in hours worked, The Seattle Times reported . For an average low-wage Seattle worker, that’s a loss of about $125 per month, the study said.


The full paper is here.

OK, so what's worse about it? Well, take this from the Washington Post:
Quote:
That doesn’t mean that nobody in Seattle will ever lose a job, of course, or that the University of Washington team’s research doesn’t merit further exploration. But it does mean that the Seattle minimum wage increase, like every minimum wage increase in American history, has lifted the wages of low-wage workers and been perfectly fine for the economy.


So, a paper comes out stating that the minimum wage rise has been a bad idea yet here's the claim that everything's just dandy. What gives? Well, he's talking about another paper:

Quote:
One would do well to dismiss these naysayers. The new study’s findings are out of step with a large body of research pertinent to Seattle’s minimum wage increase, and the study has important limitations. Another recent study without those limitations, from Michael Reich, Sylvia Allegretto and Anna Godoey at the University of California at Berkeley, is more consistent with other research and shows that Seattle’s minimum wage is having its intended effects.


Recommended by Forbes

That paper is here.

So, we've a battle of papers, duelling evidence. And that's what makes it even worse, why I call this shameless. For here's, from the Seattle Weekly, how that second, pro-minimum wage, report came about:

Quote:
To review, the timeline seems to have gone like this: The UW shares with City Hall an early draft of its study showing the minimum wage law is hurting the workers it was meant to help; the mayor’s office shares the study with researchers known to be sympathetic toward minimum wage laws, asking for feedback; those researchers release a report that’s high on Seattle’s minimum wage law just a week before the negative report comes out.


It was my colleague here at Forbes, Michael Saltsman, who spotted the interesting piece of the second paper:
Quote:
Seattle Mayor Ed Murray conveniently had an infographic designed and ready to go for the study's release. His office excitedly tweeted that the policy had "raised food workers' pay, without negative impact on employment," linking to an uploaded study version on the Mayor's personal .gov website rather than a University domain.

The Mayor's enthusiasm was understandable: The report "was prepared at the request of the Mayor of Seattle," according to the authors--apparently as a public relations prop.


Or as Mark Perry put it:

Quote:
In other words, if you don’t like an unflattering study from a team of researchers from the local university that accurately exposes some of the negative employment effects of the city of Seattle’s $15 minimum wage, you shop around – out of state in this case — for a more favorable study of that questionable and risky public policy experiment.


Yes, I do consider that shameless.

To return to the basic point that should be under discussion here. Absolutely everyone--well, OK, maybe not Nick Hanauer--agrees that there is some level of the minimum wage where the unemployment effects become a greater cost than the benefits of the higher wages going to those who remain in work. Obviously this depends a bit upon how you value higher wages and the costs of involuntary unemployment. But it also depends upon the size of the unemployment effect for different levels of minimum wage. The first is a matter of opinion, that second is a purely empirical matter which we can and should solve by data examination. Which is what the UW paper tries to do and it even flags up that we seem to have a rather larger unemployment effect from this latest rise. Which accords quite well with the old rule of thumb that this is likely to be true at around 50% of median wage. Which is why the boss of that Washington Post writer, Jared Bernstein, until recently supported a $12 Federal minimum wage and no more. Along with the EPI and many others in fact, even Hillary.

Thus we shouldn't be looking for a duel of competing political theories and creating evidence to support them, instead, be actually observing the many natural experiments going on right now, including that in Seattle, to see what large minimum wage rises actually do.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstal ... c4b59831ba

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:23 am 
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As David Horowitz says, “inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out!”

I agry with him


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:39 am 
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What isn't clear from the UW paper is the percent increase in wage the average worker received under the new law. They said the new minimum is now $13, but what was the average before that? The study indicated a 9% reduction in hours worked, but if the average wage increase was greater than 9% then theoretically the employee is better off.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:02 am 
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That’s the great thing about this country. Local govts can screw up their backyard and suffer the consequences. I don’t think the min wage matters a ton because a lot of people refuse to work and nothing will get them back to work. This just screws the consumer but rich liberals don’t care about that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:03 am 
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Seattle is pretty expensive now. It is right up there with SF in terms of housing. Thus the limousine liberals are feeling guilty about their Amazon share gains.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:25 am 
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Out of curiousness, are Diet soda immune from said tax/fee?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:29 am 
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They're great at reminding the nation why we don't need or want them.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:38 am 
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Controlling and regulating the amount of sugar you eat? Oh, no problem, yes please - sugar is "disgusting" and the reason people are fat. And we can use that tax money to pay for other social entitlements like free methodone. Regulating late term abortions? nope, that is controlling our "bodies" and YOU keep your conservative hands off our vaginas. And OBTW, stay away from my vagina, but pay for my birth control and don't tax my tampons... Liberalism is a mental disease.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:13 am 
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UpstateSCHokie wrote:
HokieJoe wrote:
Seattle must be chocked by full authoritarian douchebags.


Seattle should be studied by every student across the country to understand how liberal policies are failures.

========================================

These People Are Shameless - Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Is Worse Than You Thought
Tim Worstall , Contributor
Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

Yesterday we had the release of the follow up report into the effects of the city's rise to a $15 minimum wage. That report showed that this was not a good idea, that the wage rise made the low paid worse off, not better. I detailed the why of all that here.

Quote:
The finding really is that the rise in wages per hour leads to a reduction in total incomes for these very low wage workers that the policy is aimed at helping. It's probably not a good policy then. Note that this is about a rise to $13, the planned $15 an hour is going to be worse.


Or as the AP report has it:

Quote:
A University of Washington team studying the law’s effects found that the law has boosted pay in low-wage jobs since it took effect in 2015, but that it also caused a 9 percent reduction in hours worked, The Seattle Times reported . For an average low-wage Seattle worker, that’s a loss of about $125 per month, the study said.


The full paper is here.

OK, so what's worse about it? Well, take this from the Washington Post:
Quote:
That doesn’t mean that nobody in Seattle will ever lose a job, of course, or that the University of Washington team’s research doesn’t merit further exploration. But it does mean that the Seattle minimum wage increase, like every minimum wage increase in American history, has lifted the wages of low-wage workers and been perfectly fine for the economy.


So, a paper comes out stating that the minimum wage rise has been a bad idea yet here's the claim that everything's just dandy. What gives? Well, he's talking about another paper:

Quote:
One would do well to dismiss these naysayers. The new study’s findings are out of step with a large body of research pertinent to Seattle’s minimum wage increase, and the study has important limitations. Another recent study without those limitations, from Michael Reich, Sylvia Allegretto and Anna Godoey at the University of California at Berkeley, is more consistent with other research and shows that Seattle’s minimum wage is having its intended effects.


Recommended by Forbes

That paper is here.

So, we've a battle of papers, duelling evidence. And that's what makes it even worse, why I call this shameless. For here's, from the Seattle Weekly, how that second, pro-minimum wage, report came about:

Quote:
To review, the timeline seems to have gone like this: The UW shares with City Hall an early draft of its study showing the minimum wage law is hurting the workers it was meant to help; the mayor’s office shares the study with researchers known to be sympathetic toward minimum wage laws, asking for feedback; those researchers release a report that’s high on Seattle’s minimum wage law just a week before the negative report comes out.


It was my colleague here at Forbes, Michael Saltsman, who spotted the interesting piece of the second paper:
Quote:
Seattle Mayor Ed Murray conveniently had an infographic designed and ready to go for the study's release. His office excitedly tweeted that the policy had "raised food workers' pay, without negative impact on employment," linking to an uploaded study version on the Mayor's personal .gov website rather than a University domain.

The Mayor's enthusiasm was understandable: The report "was prepared at the request of the Mayor of Seattle," according to the authors--apparently as a public relations prop.


Or as Mark Perry put it:

Quote:
In other words, if you don’t like an unflattering study from a team of researchers from the local university that accurately exposes some of the negative employment effects of the city of Seattle’s $15 minimum wage, you shop around – out of state in this case — for a more favorable study of that questionable and risky public policy experiment.


Yes, I do consider that shameless.

To return to the basic point that should be under discussion here. Absolutely everyone--well, OK, maybe not Nick Hanauer--agrees that there is some level of the minimum wage where the unemployment effects become a greater cost than the benefits of the higher wages going to those who remain in work. Obviously this depends a bit upon how you value higher wages and the costs of involuntary unemployment. But it also depends upon the size of the unemployment effect for different levels of minimum wage. The first is a matter of opinion, that second is a purely empirical matter which we can and should solve by data examination. Which is what the UW paper tries to do and it even flags up that we seem to have a rather larger unemployment effect from this latest rise. Which accords quite well with the old rule of thumb that this is likely to be true at around 50% of median wage. Which is why the boss of that Washington Post writer, Jared Bernstein, until recently supported a $12 Federal minimum wage and no more. Along with the EPI and many others in fact, even Hillary.

Thus we shouldn't be looking for a duel of competing political theories and creating evidence to support them, instead, be actually observing the many natural experiments going on right now, including that in Seattle, to see what large minimum wage rises actually do.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstal ... c4b59831ba


Seattle is doing great. On the rise.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Seattle doing great...in spite of these policy foibles.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:59 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
Seattle doing great...in spite of these policy foibles.


If anybody moves from Seattle to burbs to avoid the impact of a soda tax, then Seattle is even better off without those folks.

I have no problem with it.


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