Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuality?

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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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chuckd4vt wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
It most definitely will within the Protestant American church. There will be small pockets of resistance, but we're already getting there. It will be akin to women clergy and open air preaching here.
However, there's a long way to go abroad. For instance, if it were up to only American Methodists, the UMC would approve gay marriage and homosexual clergy. But, African and S. American Methodists generally universally don't approve of it. Though, it's still only a matter of 4-8 yes for the UMC.
The Catholics will probably take a very long time with this issue, though under the leadership of Popes like Francis, they may get there within 50 yrs.
Could you explain to me how you rationalize that? If you can't believe something taught by your church a decade ago, how can you believe anything your church teaches now?
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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USN_Hokie wrote:Could you give me an example of the later?
HokieFanDC wrote: I'd say the age of consent and the definition of the word marriage are pretty arbitrary, depending on where and when you lived.
The most obvious is the prevalence of polygamy throughout much of earth's history.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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USN_Hokie wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
It most definitely will within the Protestant American church. There will be small pockets of resistance, but we're already getting there. It will be akin to women clergy and open air preaching here.
However, there's a long way to go abroad. For instance, if it were up to only American Methodists, the UMC would approve gay marriage and homosexual clergy. But, African and S. American Methodists generally universally don't approve of it. Though, it's still only a matter of 4-8 yes for the UMC.
The Catholics will probably take a very long time with this issue, though under the leadership of Popes like Francis, they may get there within 50 yrs.
Could you explain to me how you rationalize that? If you can't believe something taught by your church a decade ago, how can you believe anything your church teaches now?
I like how he exemplifies something practiced in small pockets (female clergy) as the blueprint for wide spread homosexual acceptance.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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133743Hokie wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
Capt Jag... very nice thought provoking post. You are correct (and AG is not) about where public opinion is headed - towards the complete acceptance of homosexuals. And you are also correct that Christianity has "adapted" before and I believe it will again. The same Old Testament book, Leviticus, that says homosexuality is an abomination also says something similar about eating shrimp (things that swim without a shell that are not fish). The Bible will not (and should not) be rewritten... but just as the shrimp thing is still in there... the homosexuality references will be as well. But Christians will learn to instead point to what should be the heart of their religion - loving thy neighbor, doing unto others, etc.

Some folks will never get it... but they will die out eventually... and it is very clear how even the kids of these homophones feel.
Corinthians and Romans are in the new testament where homosexuality is called a sin and the homosexual denied inheritance of the kingdom. Do you think Christianity is just love thy neighbor? Jesus commanded us to love each other. He also commanded us to sin no more. I hope this helps, what you may be missing is that by separating ourselves from sin, we're showing that we believe the words of Christ. That we are loving our neighbors, being kind and compassionate. But we're also not committing sin or encouraging another person to sin, like encouraging/tolerating homosexuality. I pray you read your bible over the holidays and start understanding the religion you profess to be a member.
Nice response AG. I understand where you are coming from. This particular thread posed the question where do people think Christianity is headed with regard to homosexuality. My belief is that Christianity will adapt... like it has in the past... to no longer view homosexuality as a sin. I am sure you disagree and take a more absolute reading of the Bible than I do. But... hey... we both are granted the freedom to have differences... and we will both be judged when we depart this Earth.

Merry Christmas AG :)
I personally believe Christianity will adapt and accept homosexuality as a lifestyle that some have chosen, but will continue to regard it as a sin. That doesn't mean they won't accept them in their churches, just that they will be viewed as sinners, as is everyone else in some form.
I think that's the way it is now. Sinners of all walks are always invited to attend, that's how we're saved after all. But gay marriage? Nope. Just a handful of non biblical churches will go that route and then self destruct because they've lost touch with the scripture and are more of a motivational speaker movement at that point and are divorced from the spirit.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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USN_Hokie wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
It most definitely will within the Protestant American church. There will be small pockets of resistance, but we're already getting there. It will be akin to women clergy and open air preaching here.
However, there's a long way to go abroad. For instance, if it were up to only American Methodists, the UMC would approve gay marriage and homosexual clergy. But, African and S. American Methodists generally universally don't approve of it. Though, it's still only a matter of 4-8 yes for the UMC.
The Catholics will probably take a very long time with this issue, though under the leadership of Popes like Francis, they may get there within 50 yrs.
Could you explain to me how you rationalize that? If you can't believe something taught by your church a decade ago, how can you believe anything your church teaches now?
The Church has always evolved/ changed. Or else, we would all bw practicing in something akin to what happens in the Eastern Orthodox Church
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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In many issues, the Church has been the headlights of society. This was true of abolitionism and the Civil Rights movement. Regrettably, we are the tail lights in this instance. Though the Holy Spirit is directing us in new ways.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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chuckd4vt wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
It most definitely will within the Protestant American church. There will be small pockets of resistance, but we're already getting there. It will be akin to women clergy and open air preaching here.
However, there's a long way to go abroad. For instance, if it were up to only American Methodists, the UMC would approve gay marriage and homosexual clergy. But, African and S. American Methodists generally universally don't approve of it. Though, it's still only a matter of 4-8 yes for the UMC.
The Catholics will probably take a very long time with this issue, though under the leadership of Popes like Francis, they may get there within 50 yrs.
Could you explain to me how you rationalize that? If you can't believe something taught by your church a decade ago, how can you believe anything your church teaches now?
The Church has always evolved/ changed. Or else, we would all bw practicing in something akin to what happens in the Eastern Orthodox Church
The bible doesn't change, what changes is how society interacts with the church. Nothing in the bible from the very beginning that was called a sin or abomination in now accepted as otherwise. This is the first instance of you taking something clearly defined as sin and redefining it as lifestyle.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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chuckd4vt wrote:In many issues, the Church has been the headlights of society. This was true of abolitionism and the Civil Rights movement. Regrettably, we are the tail lights in this instance. Though the Holy Spirit is directing us in new ways.
Blasphemy
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:In many issues, the Church has been the headlights of society. This was true of abolitionism and the Civil Rights movement. Regrettably, we are the tail lights in this instance. Though the Holy Spirit is directing us in new ways.
Blasphemy
Um OK. You gonna burn me at the stake? How about you worry about the log in your own eye? Grow up.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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chuckd4vt wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:In many issues, the Church has been the headlights of society. This was true of abolitionism and the Civil Rights movement. Regrettably, we are the tail lights in this instance. Though the Holy Spirit is directing us in new ways.
Blasphemy
Um OK. You gonna burn me at the stake? How about you worry about the log in your own eye? Grow up.
I'm talking about the deception you're attempting to pull here. The spirit isn't leading you or anyone else to sin. Believe your bible instead of inventing your own.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Could you give me an example of the later?
HokieFanDC wrote: I'd say the age of consent and the definition of the word marriage are pretty arbitrary, depending on where and when you lived.
The most obvious is the prevalence of polygamy throughout much of earth's history.
Yes, heterosexual polygamous marriage.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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chuckd4vt wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
It most definitely will within the Protestant American church. There will be small pockets of resistance, but we're already getting there. It will be akin to women clergy and open air preaching here.
However, there's a long way to go abroad. For instance, if it were up to only American Methodists, the UMC would approve gay marriage and homosexual clergy. But, African and S. American Methodists generally universally don't approve of it. Though, it's still only a matter of 4-8 yes for the UMC.
The Catholics will probably take a very long time with this issue, though under the leadership of Popes like Francis, they may get there within 50 yrs.
Could you explain to me how you rationalize that? If you can't believe something taught by your church a decade ago, how can you believe anything your church teaches now?
The Church has always evolved/ changed. Or else, we would all bw practicing in something akin to what happens in the Eastern Orthodox Church
You're describing differences in what really amounts to style which occurred over a millenia - motivated by the byzantine desire to separate itself from Rome. That's hardly analogous to the topic at hand.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Could you give me an example of the later?
HokieFanDC wrote: I'd say the age of consent and the definition of the word marriage are pretty arbitrary, depending on where and when you lived.
The most obvious is the prevalence of polygamy throughout much of earth's history.
Yes, heterosexual polygamous marriage.
In the Roman Empire, there were marriages between men and men...Nero was one of those. There were marriages between men and children (as we define children today).
There were marriages between men and their dead brother's wives.

Just to be clear, the conservatives today, are saying that marriage is defined as between one man and one woman.
That is a fairly recent idea pushed by the Protestant church starting in the 1500s. Prior to that, marriage has been a lot of things.
And the least of those is a religious ceremony. The Bible doesn't even call for people to be joined together for life, in a ceremony.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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USN_Hokie wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
chuckd4vt wrote:
Cpt Jagdish wrote:[serious]

I'm sure this will derail but I hope it doesn't. I'm generally curious what some of you think about this, especially those who have a strong grasp of it (Valencia, you seem to always knock these out of the park).

I ask this question because it's happened in the past. The Bible was used to support slavery until slavery became taboo and then lo and behold, passages were used to be against it. Same goes with interracial marriages. I'm sure there are countless other examples. A lot of what "evolved' could have probably been used at the time to be against those positions but weren't because society, as a whole, was against them.

If current trends continue, will this happen in regards to homosexuality? The country/society has made an incredibly sharp shift towards being accepting of gay people and pushing towards their equality. It's a drastic shift to be sure, probably why there is so much friction. It's not as if all of a sudden all the anti-gay people died off, surely sentiment is changing. Utah of all states has gay marriage now! And on the other hand, Uganda is passing a kill all gays law that is backed by religious sentiment.

Now that public sentiment is changing, I have noticed cracks in Christian theology about supporting gay people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani ... able_views Much of that revolves around mistranslating the bible, making the excuse that being homosexual is not a sin but the act itself is (equating it to gossping, lying, etc), that are laws supersede others (Golden Rule), and so forth.

So my basic question to the board's theologians, let's fast forward and gay people are widely accepted (if you don't believe that will happen, just pretend). Do you think that majority of Christianity will evolve to have it be accepted or not? That the Bible will be used to support gay people rather than demonize them?
It most definitely will within the Protestant American church. There will be small pockets of resistance, but we're already getting there. It will be akin to women clergy and open air preaching here.
However, there's a long way to go abroad. For instance, if it were up to only American Methodists, the UMC would approve gay marriage and homosexual clergy. But, African and S. American Methodists generally universally don't approve of it. Though, it's still only a matter of 4-8 yes for the UMC.
The Catholics will probably take a very long time with this issue, though under the leadership of Popes like Francis, they may get there within 50 yrs.
Could you explain to me how you rationalize that? If you can't believe something taught by your church a decade ago, how can you believe anything your church teaches now?
The Church has always evolved/ changed. Or else, we would all bw practicing in something akin to what happens in the Eastern Orthodox Church
You're describing differences in what really amounts to style which occurred over a millenia - motivated by the byzantine desire to separate itself from Rome. That's hardly analogous to the topic at hand.
Well that split was significant. The orthodox saw no scripture supporting a pope and so let the catholics break off. And then the protestants saw the Catholic Church become corrupt and so broke off. But the bible didn't change in either of those events, even if catholics believe the edicts of the pope has greater authority. A Catholic can still read the bible and pray directly to Jesus, without involving Marry or any other intermediary. The word of God hasn't changed. 2000 years or whatnot, it's still the gospel. He's still the king and his love forever endures.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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awesome guy wrote:
HvilleHokie wrote:Yes, it will adapt. Many donominations already have. My church just had an openly gay woman (who is married) join on Sunday.
how is she gay if she's married? Or is she divorcing her husband to be gay?
1) many states allow gay marriage

2) marriage is a religious ceremony... I couldnt care less if the state sanctions my marriage. I do care if God sanctions it
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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HokieFanDC wrote: In the Roman Empire, there were marriages between men and men...Nero was one of those. There were marriages between men and children (as we define children today).
There were marriages between men and their dead brother's wives.

Just to be clear, the conservatives today, are saying that marriage is defined as between one man and one woman.
That is a fairly recent idea pushed by the Protestant church starting in the 1500s. Prior to that, marriage has been a lot of things.
And the least of those is a religious ceremony. The Bible doesn't even call for people to be joined together for life, in a ceremony.
Your characterization is completely false (though...citing Nero in a pro-anything argument is pretty funny ;) ).......unless you're telling me that pederasty/pedophilia = homosexuality?

1. Nero was a Grecophile. He was loved in Greece (the Acropolis even pays homage to him) and hated in Rome because of it - it's one of the reasons he was going to be assassinated. To be clear, he was an exception, not the rule.

2. As any good Greek aristocrat would do - he was a pederast. He married a (castrated) boy which resembled his late wife - the child even took her name (there's potentially another, but that's disputed). Again, he was castigated for acts like this because it was completely un-Roman. He also famously banged his mom - are you arguing for incest, too?

3. Romans practiced heterosexual, monogamous marriage.

4. While pederasty of sorts (mostly between premarital male patricians and slaves) was practiced to a degree, this really speaks more to the Romans lack of respect for human lives than anything else. A slave was the modern day equivalent of a "happy sock." Straight-up homosexuality was not tolerated.

Comparing homosexuals to pederasts ...or citing the social "indulgences" of Greece/Rome as an argument for alternative marriage isn't a line reasoning I think you want to go down.

Your characterization that monogamous, heterosexual marriage is a "fairly recent idea" is laughable, WADR. There's absolutely no basis for that.
Last edited by USN_Hokie on Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

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awesome guy wrote:
HvilleHokie wrote:Yes, it will adapt. Many donominations already have. My church just had an openly gay woman (who is married) join on Sunday.

Just yesterday you said preaching against adultery isn't wisdom and is hypocritical if you've ever done so in your life.
That's not what I said at all. I said your diatribe where you lumped all manner of things weird items together such as premarital sex and Hillary Clinton could hardly be called wisdom.

So I'm curious how that jives with this revelation of attending church. I mean they do preach against sin there right? If not, then what are the sermons about?
The sermons at my church touch on a wide variety of topics including sin. However they usually focus on the redemptive nature of Christianity and usually not on condemning particular acts or groups of people.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by HvilleHokie »

awesome guy wrote:
Once wrote:Well, I'm guessing she lives in California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Washington, or the District of Columbia where gay marriage is legal and not one of the states where civil unions are legal or gay marriage isn't legal (?). I'm also guessing she and her congregation (Hville's sect of Christianity) don't agree with your interpretation of God's word.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here, unless you're trying to say you don't consider her married (which is fine, but I doubt she cares).
awesome guy wrote:
HvilleHokie wrote:Yes, it will adapt. Many donominations already have. My church just had an openly gay woman (who is married) join on Sunday.
how is she gay if she's married? Or is she divorcing her husband to be gay?
I'm doubting H'Ville even attends church given he thinks shaking up is Christian. Those few churches that have played with the idea of gay marriage have torn themselves up. Of course you can believe anything you want, but if you're going to call yourself Christian then there are some things that go along with that, like homosexuality being a sin and thus homosexuals not being married in the eyes of God or the the church. I get that you invented your own gay friendly religion, but it's not Christianity. So you can make up the rules as you see fit, but to live in the lord's house requires living by the lord's rules.
I go to a Presbyterian church.

Here is their report on homosexuality if you are interested.

http://www.pcusa.org/media/uploads/_res ... uality.pdf
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by Major Kong »

awesome guy wrote:The bible doesn't change...
Well now I just have to disagree the bible has changed many times over the years.

Are we talking Hebrew Bible? Christian Bible? Coptic Bible? Ethiopic? Latin? Greek? Vetus Latina? Vulgate? King James Version? New Jerusalem?

Canonized vs Apocryphal?

There were 7 ecumenical councils before the 1st millennium deciding what the Holy Bible would include. Then there are the Eastern Orthodoxy, African and Levant canons to name a few.

Then came Martin Luther and with that followed the Sola Scriptura canon and then further Catholic refining into the 1940's.

In it's own way the Bible has been a "living" document since Nicaea. :)
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by awesome guy »

Major Kong wrote:
awesome guy wrote:The bible doesn't change...
Well now I just have to disagree the bible has changed many times over the years.

Are we talking Hebrew Bible? Christian Bible? Coptic Bible? Ethiopic? Latin? Greek? Vetus Latina? Vulgate? King James Version? New Jerusalem?

Canonized vs Apocryphal?

There were 7 ecumenical councils before the 1st millennium deciding what the Holy Bible would include. Then there are the Eastern Orthodoxy, African and Levant canons to name a few.

Then came Martin Luther and with that followed the Sola Scriptura canon and then further Catholic refining into the 1940's.

In it's own way the Bible has been a "living" document since Nicaea. :)
Fair enough about translations, but the meaning hasn't changed.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by awesome guy »

HvilleHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
HvilleHokie wrote:Yes, it will adapt. Many donominations already have. My church just had an openly gay woman (who is married) join on Sunday.

Just yesterday you said preaching against adultery isn't wisdom and is hypocritical if you've ever done so in your life.
That's not what I said at all. I said your diatribe where you lumped all manner of things weird items together such as premarital sex and Hillary Clinton could hardly be called wisdom.

So I'm curious how that jives with this revelation of attending church. I mean they do preach against sin there right? If not, then what are the sermons about?
The sermons at my church touch on a wide variety of topics including sin. However they usually focus on the redemptive nature of Christianity and usually not on condemning particular acts or groups of people.

Come on, you specifically called out sleeping around. Those "wierd items" were sins which you should be familiar with. It wasn't a diatribe, it was you also calling me a hypocrite because I slept around 20 years ago and think I was sinful. And you indicated it was your business to shack up if you wanted to and were indignant that anyone call that sin.

I'm not sure how you can talk about redemption without talking about what is in need of redemption. Aka the sins.
Last edited by awesome guy on Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by awesome guy »

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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by HvilleHokie »

awesome guy wrote:
HvilleHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
HvilleHokie wrote:Yes, it will adapt. Many donominations already have. My church just had an openly gay woman (who is married) join on Sunday.

Just yesterday you said preaching against adultery isn't wisdom and is hypocritical if you've ever done so in your life.
That's not what I said at all. I said your diatribe where you lumped all manner of things weird items together such as premarital sex and Hillary Clinton could hardly be called wisdom.

So I'm curious how that jives with this revelation of attending church. I mean they do preach against sin there right? If not, then what are the sermons about?
The sermons at my church touch on a wide variety of topics including sin. However they usually focus on the redemptive nature of Christianity and usually not on condemning particular acts or groups of people.

Come on, you specifically called out sleeping around. Those "wierd items" were sins which you should be familiar with. It wasn't a diatribe, it was you also calling me a hypocrite because I slept around 20 years ago and think I was sinful.
I'm sorry.. But if you include things like liking Hillary Clinton and miley Cyrus in your diatribe, you dilute your message.
And you indicated it was your business to shack up if you wanted to and were indignant that anyone call that sin.
Could you point out where I did that? Cause I really don't think I did.
I'm not sure how you can talk about redemption without talking about what is in need of redemption. Aka the sins.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. No one said otherwise.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by Major Kong »

awesome guy wrote:Fair enough about translations, but the meaning hasn't changed.
The meaning of the bible changes depending on what particular canon one believes. Such as the further refining of the text from the Novum Testamentum Graece (yeah I know Roman Catholic not Protestant).

It depends on the translations (or transliterations if you will) from the original Aramaic and Greek text into Latin, Italian, French, German, Swedish or English.

There is actually a new biblical project under way called the Bible in Its Traditions which will definitely be on my bookshelf when published. :)

One pretty much constant source that has remained unchanged for over 2000 years is the Masoretic Text (Old Testament) from the Hebrew canon.
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Re: Will the Bible/Christianity evolve to accept homosexuali

Post by Once »

Are the changes not more than simply translations? I thought it had changed over time with regard to what has been excluded and included. Perhaps Dave could weigh in.
awesome guy wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
awesome guy wrote:The bible doesn't change...
Well now I just have to disagree the bible has changed many times over the years.

Are we talking Hebrew Bible? Christian Bible? Coptic Bible? Ethiopic? Latin? Greek? Vetus Latina? Vulgate? King James Version? New Jerusalem?

Canonized vs Apocryphal?

There were 7 ecumenical councils before the 1st millennium deciding what the Holy Bible would include. Then there are the Eastern Orthodoxy, African and Levant canons to name a few.

Then came Martin Luther and with that followed the Sola Scriptura canon and then further Catholic refining into the 1940's.

In it's own way the Bible has been a "living" document since Nicaea. :)
Fair enough about translations, but the meaning hasn't changed.
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