correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.fatman wrote:Agree. We are 7 years into a massive bull run with amazing gains. No one should be surprised if we see a correction in the near future. The rapid defecit increases in US defecits are a concern. Furthermore, fed rates have been at historic lows for an awfully long time. I think we should return those to "normalized" levels.133743Hokie wrote:The market is still up 19% over the past 12 months. Nothing to sneeze at.ip_law-hokie wrote:If you’ve been in the market through the eight years President Barrack Hussein Obama, and Trump’s first year, you shouldn’t be blaming the state of your portfolio on this correction. That’s not logical.cwtcr hokie wrote:apparantly friday was just a primer for today, whew, what retirement?ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
Not to say that this isn’t a preview for a 50% haircut in 12 months, but for now you are exaggerating.
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So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
I plan to win the powerball, retirement is taken care ofip_law-hokie wrote:If you’ve been in the market through the eight years President Barrack Hussein Obama, and Trump’s first year, you shouldn’t be blaming the state of your portfolio on this correction. That’s not logical.cwtcr hokie wrote:apparantly friday was just a primer for today, whew, what retirement?ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
Not to say that this isn’t a preview for a 50% haircut in 12 months, but for now you are exaggerating.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
You're right, it limped along while Obama was in office, but it's on fire now that Trump is in charge. Please note, I'm not complaining about the economy.cwtcr hokie wrote:correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.fatman wrote:Agree. We are 7 years into a massive bull run with amazing gains. No one should be surprised if we see a correction in the near future. The rapid defecit increases in US defecits are a concern. Furthermore, fed rates have been at historic lows for an awfully long time. I think we should return those to "normalized" levels.133743Hokie wrote:The market is still up 19% over the past 12 months. Nothing to sneeze at.ip_law-hokie wrote:If you’ve been in the market through the eight years President Barrack Hussein Obama, and Trump’s first year, you shouldn’t be blaming the state of your portfolio on this correction. That’s not logical.cwtcr hokie wrote:apparantly friday was just a primer for today, whew, what retirement?ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
Not to say that this isn’t a preview for a 50% haircut in 12 months, but for now you are exaggerating.
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GDP Growth:
2010: 2.5
2011: 1.6
2012: 2.2
2013: 1.7
2014: 2.6
2015: 2.9
2016: 1.5
2017: 2.3
Average monthly employment:
2010: 87.8
2011: 174.2
2012: 179.3
2013: 191.8
2014: 250.4
2015: 226.0
2016: 195.3
2017: 183.0
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Definitely melodramatic, but not TIC at all. Cut my “500” some slack. Okay. Call it 700, 800, or 1000.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
Point stands. I do remember news blowing up over a 12 or 14 pt drop. Well hells bells! The market was only at 750!
For those touting the Obama bull market, I only ask to look at the “why”. Hint: time value of money, and really low rates. Really low.
Compare w/ this one. Tax cuts basically just threw 14% net to the bottom lines of corporations used to making only 3% (or less!). Earnings! Now, trickle that down the line. Plant expansions may be afforded now, that were tabled before. Customers have money by way of tax savings. Disposable income way up. Suppliers, builders, etc etc will respond to the new plant needs, in turn generating employment, wages, and yes...more taxes. Velocity of the dollar was just given an adrenaline shot.
It is inflation that I’ll worry about, as unemployment drops.
Remember the differences between a movement along a curve vs a shift of the curve itself.
Lots going on now. FUTURE earnings. A built in 14% bump, baseline, BEFORE considering the economic advantages of said capital availability. If stocks are “overvalued” now, they were insanely overvalued 15-20 months ago.
And all this, without me donning my foil conspiracy hat that suggests goldman’s program trade directors are anti trump, and the Fed is anti Trump. Imagine if both (plus the press) were up his arse the way they were up Obama’s!!!
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
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Salute the Marines
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Trump, or Trump’s people, probably just Trump, did themselves a disservice by tying their performance to the vagaries of the stock market. Amateur move.ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
No. A 2% swing today doesn't bother me like a 10% swing did decades ago.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Not to mention that the market is more volatile now, too, than it was back then.133743Hokie wrote:No. A 2% swing today doesn't bother me like a 10% swing did decades ago.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Don't mind me, a 10% drop should bother you one hell of a lot more.RiverguyVT wrote:Definitely melodramatic, but not TIC at all. Cut my “500” some slack. Okay. Call it 700, 800, or 1000.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
Point stands. I do remember news blowing up over a 12 or 14 pt drop. Well hells bells! The market was only at 750!
For those touting the Obama bull market, I only ask to look at the “why”. Hint: time value of money, and really low rates. Really low.
Compare w/ this one. Tax cuts basically just threw 14% net to the bottom lines of corporations used to making only 3% (or less!). Earnings! Now, trickle that down the line. Plant expansions may be afforded now, that were tabled before. Customers have money by way of tax savings. Disposable income way up. Suppliers, builders, etc etc will respond to the new plant needs, in turn generating employment, wages, and yes...more taxes. Velocity of the dollar was just given an adrenaline shot.
It is inflation that I’ll worry about, as unemployment drops.
Remember the differences between a movement along a curve vs a shift of the curve itself.
Lots going on now. FUTURE earnings. A built in 14% bump, baseline, BEFORE considering the economic advantages of said capital availability. If stocks are “overvalued” now, they were insanely overvalued 15-20 months ago.
And all this, without me donning my foil conspiracy hat that suggests goldman’s program trade directors are anti trump, and the Fed is anti Trump. Imagine if both (plus the press) were up his arse the way they were up Obama’s!!!
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Really though? It would have been an amateur move for anyone else, but this won't stick to him if the markets are down come election time.ip_law-hokie wrote:Trump, or Trump’s people, probably just Trump, did themselves a disservice by tying their performance to the vagaries of the stock market. Amateur move.ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
2% vs 10% is all one needs to know.133743Hokie wrote:No. A 2% swing today doesn't bother me like a 10% swing did decades ago.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Agreed! I clearly read the numbers wrong and/or can't do math.133743Hokie wrote:No. A 2% swing today doesn't bother me like a 10% swing did decades ago.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
I think you are misreading his post, and others are ribbing Riverguy because the Dow was at last at 500 around 1950.TheH2 wrote:Don't mind me, a 10% drop should bother you one hell of a lot more.RiverguyVT wrote:Definitely melodramatic, but not TIC at all. Cut my “500” some slack. Okay. Call it 700, 800, or 1000.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
Point stands. I do remember news blowing up over a 12 or 14 pt drop. Well hells bells! The market was only at 750!
For those touting the Obama bull market, I only ask to look at the “why”. Hint: time value of money, and really low rates. Really low.
Compare w/ this one. Tax cuts basically just threw 14% net to the bottom lines of corporations used to making only 3% (or less!). Earnings! Now, trickle that down the line. Plant expansions may be afforded now, that were tabled before. Customers have money by way of tax savings. Disposable income way up. Suppliers, builders, etc etc will respond to the new plant needs, in turn generating employment, wages, and yes...more taxes. Velocity of the dollar was just given an adrenaline shot.
It is inflation that I’ll worry about, as unemployment drops.
Remember the differences between a movement along a curve vs a shift of the curve itself.
Lots going on now. FUTURE earnings. A built in 14% bump, baseline, BEFORE considering the economic advantages of said capital availability. If stocks are “overvalued” now, they were insanely overvalued 15-20 months ago.
And all this, without me donning my foil conspiracy hat that suggests goldman’s program trade directors are anti trump, and the Fed is anti Trump. Imagine if both (plus the press) were up his arse the way they were up Obama’s!!!
So either Riverguy is really old,or he is exaggerating a bit.
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
I explained
A 10% drop is worse than a 2% one.
Especially when on a period of relative market stability
A 10% drop is worse than a 2% one.
Especially when on a period of relative market stability
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
That is the opposite of what the stock market has been during this massive bull market. The reason you haven't heard many stories about this long bull market has been the boring, slow and steady, record low volatility that has been observed. Your perception does not match the data.RiverguyVT wrote:Not to mention that the market is more volatile now, too, than it was back then.133743Hokie wrote:No. A 2% swing today doesn't bother me like a 10% swing did decades ago.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
https://www.thestreet.com/story/1443739 ... es-on.html
Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
This is a fantastic post. The stock market is on a top-3 all time bull market run, calling it "OK" demonstrates your loose grip on the data you are speaking about. Job creation is also on a record long streak and has continued on the same really positive trend for Obama and Trump. There is no discontinuity to the trend line. Both guys have seen similar results, which are great for both. Unemployment is at lows not seen since the Clinton administration. As a non-partisan, I don't see how you look at job creation and find Obama or Trump to be different or superior to one another.cwtcr hokie wrote:correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.fatman wrote:Agree. We are 7 years into a massive bull run with amazing gains. No one should be surprised if we see a correction in the near future. The rapid defecit increases in US defecits are a concern. Furthermore, fed rates have been at historic lows for an awfully long time. I think we should return those to "normalized" levels.133743Hokie wrote:The market is still up 19% over the past 12 months. Nothing to sneeze at.ip_law-hokie wrote:If you’ve been in the market through the eight years President Barrack Hussein Obama, and Trump’s first year, you shouldn’t be blaming the state of your portfolio on this correction. That’s not logical.cwtcr hokie wrote:apparantly friday was just a primer for today, whew, what retirement?ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
Not to say that this isn’t a preview for a 50% haircut in 12 months, but for now you are exaggerating.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
FUTURE earnings, but also FUTURE liabilities. Those tax cuts weren't offset by spending cuts, they are just stacking onto the government deficit. i suspect you would agree that this will be inflationary, because sooner or later the US will have to confront the deficit and the increasing interest rates.RiverguyVT wrote:Definitely melodramatic, but not TIC at all. Cut my “500” some slack. Okay. Call it 700, 800, or 1000.TheH2 wrote:This was TIC right?133743Hokie wrote:AgreeRiverguyVT wrote:I may be an old fart... but a 500 pt swing when the mkt is at 25,000 doesn't bother me like a 50 pt swing did when the market was at 500
Point stands. I do remember news blowing up over a 12 or 14 pt drop. Well hells bells! The market was only at 750!
For those touting the Obama bull market, I only ask to look at the “why”. Hint: time value of money, and really low rates. Really low.
Compare w/ this one. Tax cuts basically just threw 14% net to the bottom lines of corporations used to making only 3% (or less!). Earnings! Now, trickle that down the line. Plant expansions may be afforded now, that were tabled before. Customers have money by way of tax savings. Disposable income way up. Suppliers, builders, etc etc will respond to the new plant needs, in turn generating employment, wages, and yes...more taxes. Velocity of the dollar was just given an adrenaline shot.
It is inflation that I’ll worry about, as unemployment drops.
Remember the differences between a movement along a curve vs a shift of the curve itself.
Lots going on now. FUTURE earnings. A built in 14% bump, baseline, BEFORE considering the economic advantages of said capital availability. If stocks are “overvalued” now, they were insanely overvalued 15-20 months ago.
And all this, without me donning my foil conspiracy hat that suggests goldman’s program trade directors are anti trump, and the Fed is anti Trump. Imagine if both (plus the press) were up his arse the way they were up Obama’s!!!
Question for you on timing. These tax cuts aren't being introduced during a recession or a period of low unemployment, they are timed 6-7 years into a record long bull market, 6-7 years into a period of economic expansion, 6-7 years into a period of employment expansion, second only to the clinton bull market in length. Unemployment is near record lows. Who will fill the jobs that you are talking about? I'm sure you agree that any job growth with unemployment this low is inflationary.
Corporate profits have been strong in recent years, could you expand on the lack of capital available to these profitable companies?
I'm not cocky enough to claim to understand the stock market's daily operations. I would argue that the tax cuts don't guarantee a continuation of the record bull market we've seen as you appear to assert. I wouldn't be surprised to see a correction here or a resumption to the long term bull trend at this point.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
You do realize that the DJIA went up 25% in Obama's first year, right??cwtcr hokie wrote:correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.fatman wrote:Agree. We are 7 years into a massive bull run with amazing gains. No one should be surprised if we see a correction in the near future. The rapid defecit increases in US defecits are a concern. Furthermore, fed rates have been at historic lows for an awfully long time. I think we should return those to "normalized" levels.133743Hokie wrote:The market is still up 19% over the past 12 months. Nothing to sneeze at.ip_law-hokie wrote:If you’ve been in the market through the eight years President Barrack Hussein Obama, and Trump’s first year, you shouldn’t be blaming the state of your portfolio on this correction. That’s not logical.cwtcr hokie wrote:apparantly friday was just a primer for today, whew, what retirement?ElbertoHokie wrote:Let's say the inevitable correction is occuring or occurs in the near future(month, maybe 2). How do you see the mid terms going? How do the mid terms go if status quo is maintained?
Not to say that this isn’t a preview for a 50% haircut in 12 months, but for now you are exaggerating.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.[/quote]
You do realize that the DJIA went up 25% in Obama's first year, right??[/quote]
The market was way way way down from the recession so it only had to go up, if it kept going down we would not be here today
You do realize that the DJIA went up 25% in Obama's first year, right??[/quote]
The market was way way way down from the recession so it only had to go up, if it kept going down we would not be here today
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
Agree. We are 7 years into a massive bull run with amazing gains. No one should be surprised if we see a correction in the near future. The rapid defecit increases in US defecits are a concern. Furthermore, fed rates have been at historic lows for an awfully long time. I think we should return those to "normalized" levels.[/quote]
correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.[/quote]
This is a fantastic post. The stock market is on a top-3 all time bull market run, calling it "OK" demonstrates your loose grip on the data you are speaking about. Job creation is also on a record long streak and has continued on the same really positive trend for Obama and Trump. There is no discontinuity to the trend line. Both guys have seen similar results, which are great for both. Unemployment is at lows not seen since the Clinton administration. As a non-partisan, I don't see how you look at job creation and find Obama or Trump to be different or superior to one another.[/quote]
so .7 gdp growth is really good? Obummer never got above 2 % GDP growth in his ENTIRE 8 years, but if you want to think he was great then so be it, the economy limped along in reality. you can now post how dumb I am as I am sure you are soooo much smarter than me.
correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.[/quote]
This is a fantastic post. The stock market is on a top-3 all time bull market run, calling it "OK" demonstrates your loose grip on the data you are speaking about. Job creation is also on a record long streak and has continued on the same really positive trend for Obama and Trump. There is no discontinuity to the trend line. Both guys have seen similar results, which are great for both. Unemployment is at lows not seen since the Clinton administration. As a non-partisan, I don't see how you look at job creation and find Obama or Trump to be different or superior to one another.[/quote]
so .7 gdp growth is really good? Obummer never got above 2 % GDP growth in his ENTIRE 8 years, but if you want to think he was great then so be it, the economy limped along in reality. you can now post how dumb I am as I am sure you are soooo much smarter than me.
Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
But he did - see below, from BEA.gov, and posted above.cwtcr hokie wrote:
so .7 gdp growth is really good? Obummer never got above 2 % GDP growth in his ENTIRE 8 years, but if you want to think he was great then so be it, the economy limped along in reality. you can now post how dumb I am as I am sure you are soooo much smarter than me.
GDP Growth:
2010: 2.5
2011: 1.6
2012: 2.2
2013: 1.7
2014: 2.6
2015: 2.9
2016: 1.5
2017: 2.3
People who know, know.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
you missed bolding one, yep awesome great job Obummer (funny, while he was in office I kept seeing articles about how our growth was lacking and we were limping along....I guess those economist were as dumb as me) who knew?TheH2 wrote:But he did - see below, from BEA.gov, and posted above.cwtcr hokie wrote:
so .7 gdp growth is really good? Obummer never got above 2 % GDP growth in his ENTIRE 8 years, but if you want to think he was great then so be it, the economy limped along in reality. you can now post how dumb I am as I am sure you are soooo much smarter than me.
GDP Growth:
2010: 2.5
2011: 1.6
2012: 2.2
2013: 1.7
2014: 2.6
2015: 2.9
2016: 1.5
2017: 2.3
Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
I'm pretty sure I bolded every year where GDP was >= 2% under Obama.cwtcr hokie wrote:you missed bolding one, yep awesome great job Obummer (funny, while he was in office I kept seeing articles about how our growth was lacking and we were limping along....I guess those economist were as dumb as me) who knew?TheH2 wrote:But he did - see below, from BEA.gov, and posted above.cwtcr hokie wrote:
so .7 gdp growth is really good? Obummer never got above 2 % GDP growth in his ENTIRE 8 years, but if you want to think he was great then so be it, the economy limped along in reality. you can now post how dumb I am as I am sure you are soooo much smarter than me.
GDP Growth:
2010: 2.5
2011: 1.6
2012: 2.2
2013: 1.7
2014: 2.6
2015: 2.9
2016: 1.5
2017: 2.3
Well, if you are reading articles from the same sources that are now talking about how great GDP growth is, you may want to start reading new sources, or at the very least supplement it with different sources. There are a lot of "economists" some are better than others.
Coming out of a banking led recession growth is lower. In fact, the U.S. returned to pre-recession GDP much faster than would be expected historically. You shouldn't have ignored my posts for the last 8 years .
3% is the new good. 2.0 - 3.0 is the new normal.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
I thought we all agreed that the stock market is not a good benchmark to measure the effectiveness of a president.cwtcr hokie wrote:you missed bolding one, yep awesome great job Obummer (funny, while he was in office I kept seeing articles about how our growth was lacking and we were limping along....I guess those economist were as dumb as me) who knew?TheH2 wrote:But he did - see below, from BEA.gov, and posted above.cwtcr hokie wrote:
so .7 gdp growth is really good? Obummer never got above 2 % GDP growth in his ENTIRE 8 years, but if you want to think he was great then so be it, the economy limped along in reality. you can now post how dumb I am as I am sure you are soooo much smarter than me.
GDP Growth:
2010: 2.5
2011: 1.6
2012: 2.2
2013: 1.7
2014: 2.6
2015: 2.9
2016: 1.5
2017: 2.3
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: So today was a bad day on wall street for sure.
You do realize that the DJIA went up 25% in Obama's first year, right??[/quote]cwtcr hokie wrote:correction, the economy limped along while Obummer was in office, yes the market did ok but due to the economy limping along the gains are over the last year, up 21% before the last two days I believe since this time last year.
The market was way way way down from the recession so it only had to go up, if it kept going down we would not be here today[/quote]
Yep, it was way, way down, and on a really bad trend. The DJIA had fallen 30%+ in the year before he took office. Terrific that it was turned around so fast, no?
And the DJIA increased 18% the year before Trump took office. So, the stock market was already cruising.
Just saying that continuing a longstanding trend is a good thing, but not an amazing accomplishment.