How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

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cwtcr hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by cwtcr hokie »

ElbertoHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
I'm glad your POV is fringe. It's to claim to both support the 2nd amendment as well as end it.
Hey I cut to the chase. As the courts have currently defined the 2A it will be damn near impossible to craft a law that has any real effect. Thus you need an amendment. Right now, that opinion may be fringe. We'll see what a few decades decides.

At some point in time slavery was legal along with the 3/5ths compromise and women couldn't vote. It's not like there isn't precedent for altering the document.
Just admit you're anti-second amendment then instead of presenting yourself as a supporter of it.
I own guns and want to continue. I want it to be harder to buy guns with training required and waiting periods. I'd also like for every illegal entity and organization on earth to not acquire their guns in the USA due to the ease at which they're purchased whether legally or illegally.

So I really just strongly believe in the "well-regulated" part of the 2A. The part you guys aren't big fans of.
FYI People that break laws (murder is against the law) don't really give a crap about laws so adding more will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop criminals, just more hassle for the 99% of us that do not break laws

there are waiting periods already, so I guess though you just tell the woman with a violent ex husband to tough it out....mighty nice of you
cwtcr hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by cwtcr hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Oh look, this is what USN_Hokie was saying from the #$&%#@ beginning. But because they didn't follow through with the laws we have in place, suddenly more laws are needed. Nope, GFY.
The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.
my question is since they could not get a involuntary commitment done even tho several people were calling for it how would you get a GRVO accomplished? Also I believe the family he lived with owned at least one gun also so are you taking every firearm out of the residence?

Yes a GRVO is brilliant if it is a person that lives alone and nobody else has any property in his residence, otherwise it has many issues
133743Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by 133743Hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Oh look, this is what USN_Hokie was saying from the #$&%#@ beginning. But because they didn't follow through with the laws we have in place, suddenly more laws are needed. Nope, GFY.
The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.
Nope. They could have done it here but chose not to. Instead of asking why, you want to pile on more laws. No thanks.
Nope, want to simplify the process with short term inconvenience. Mental commitment is a huge and difficult hurdle.
133743Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by 133743Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Oh look, this is what USN_Hokie was saying from the #$&%#@ beginning. But because they didn't follow through with the laws we have in place, suddenly more laws are needed. Nope, GFY.
The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.
my question is since they could not get a involuntary commitment done even tho several people were calling for it how would you get a GRVO accomplished? Also I believe the family he lived with owned at least one gun also so are you taking every firearm out of the residence?

Yes a GRVO is brilliant if it is a person that lives alone and nobody else has any property in his residence, otherwise it has many issues
Because involuntary mental commitment is a very high bar. GVRO is not as high a bar.
cwtcr hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by cwtcr hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Oh look, this is what USN_Hokie was saying from the #$&%#@ beginning. But because they didn't follow through with the laws we have in place, suddenly more laws are needed. Nope, GFY.
The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.
my question is since they could not get a involuntary commitment done even tho several people were calling for it how would you get a GRVO accomplished? Also I believe the family he lived with owned at least one gun also so are you taking every firearm out of the residence?

Yes a GRVO is brilliant if it is a person that lives alone and nobody else has any property in his residence, otherwise it has many issues
Because involuntary mental commitment is a very high bar. GVRO is not as high a bar.
what about the other questions, this FL guy lived in a house with another family, so in a GVRO are you taking every weapon in the residence, sorry no way I can agree to that
133743Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by 133743Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Oh look, this is what USN_Hokie was saying from the #$&%#@ beginning. But because they didn't follow through with the laws we have in place, suddenly more laws are needed. Nope, GFY.
The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.
my question is since they could not get a involuntary commitment done even tho several people were calling for it how would you get a GRVO accomplished? Also I believe the family he lived with owned at least one gun also so are you taking every firearm out of the residence?

Yes a GRVO is brilliant if it is a person that lives alone and nobody else has any property in his residence, otherwise it has many issues
Because involuntary mental commitment is a very high bar. GVRO is not as high a bar.
what about the other questions, this FL guy lived in a house with another family, so in a GVRO are you taking every weapon in the residence, sorry no way I can agree to that
No you don't. Probably require them to be locked up when not in use.
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USN_Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by USN_Hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Nope. They could have done it here but chose not to. Instead of asking why, you want to pile on more laws. No thanks.
Nope, want to simplify the process with short term inconvenience. Mental commitment is a huge and difficult hurdle.
We're just arguing in circles now. I think you're completely wrong, but if you weren't, you make an excellent argument for legal reform. Are you supposed to be a libertarian?

I'd rather not have laws like Washington's, where a man loses his civil rights without due process for apparently looking at someone wrong. That's complete bullshit.
cwtcr hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by cwtcr hokie »

The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
[/quote]
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.[/quote]

my question is since they could not get a involuntary commitment done even tho several people were calling for it how would you get a GRVO accomplished? Also I believe the family he lived with owned at least one gun also so are you taking every firearm out of the residence?

Yes a GRVO is brilliant if it is a person that lives alone and nobody else has any property in his residence, otherwise it has many issues[/quote]
Because involuntary mental commitment is a very high bar. GVRO is not as high a bar.[/quote]

what about the other questions, this FL guy lived in a house with another family, so in a GVRO are you taking every weapon in the residence, sorry no way I can agree to that[/quote]
No you don't. Probably require them to be locked up when not in use.[/quote]

in the fl case the guy that owned the property made the kid lock up his guns in the gun safe and per the guy the kid was not supposed to have the combo... we see how well that worked, so yes the GRVO would be great in special situations but would not work worth a crap in most of them as not many nutjobs live all by themselves it seems like
133743Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by 133743Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
The documents, first revealed by The Associated Press, were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents showed a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days.

Such an involuntary commitment also would have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities said.

There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred.

David S. Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said that an involuntary commitment would have been a huge red flag had Cruz attempted to buy a firearm legally.

"If he had lied, hopefully the verification of the form would have pulled up the commitment paperwork," Weinstein said.

The documents did not say why Cruz was not committed under the Baker Act or whether he may not have qualified for other reasons. The law allows a law enforcement officer such as Peterson to initiate commitment under the Baker Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/18/so ... -show.html
Yep, the commitment you so love to tout. And why it is so difficult to actually implement. Which is why the GVRO is gaining such steam nationally. It would actually be effective.[/quote]

my question is since they could not get a involuntary commitment done even tho several people were calling for it how would you get a GRVO accomplished? Also I believe the family he lived with owned at least one gun also so are you taking every firearm out of the residence?

Yes a GRVO is brilliant if it is a person that lives alone and nobody else has any property in his residence, otherwise it has many issues[/quote]
Because involuntary mental commitment is a very high bar. GVRO is not as high a bar.[/quote]

what about the other questions, this FL guy lived in a house with another family, so in a GVRO are you taking every weapon in the residence, sorry no way I can agree to that[/quote]
No you don't. Probably require them to be locked up when not in use.[/quote]

in the fl case the guy that owned the property made the kid lock up his guns in the gun safe and per the guy the kid was not supposed to have the combo... we see how well that worked, so yes the GRVO would be great in special situations but would not work worth a crap in most of them as not many nutjobs live all by themselves it seems like[/quote]
More like it "might" not have worked in this singular situation. Don't know for sure.
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by Vienna_Hokie »

But now his brother shows up and gets arrested.

Maybe if they were that vigilant about the one that continuously threatened to kill people at the school this could have been avoided.
Looks like the only thing 1984 got wrong was the date.
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USN_Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by USN_Hokie »

The stupid diversity hire lady who told responding cops not to enter (not the Coward County guys...they had already ran) also didn't allow paramedics with armed escorts to enter - even after the perp was arrested.
Michael McNally, deputy chief for Coral Springs fire-rescue, asked six times for permission to send in specialized teams of police officers and paramedics, according to an incident report he filed after the Feb. 14 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting that left 17 people dead.

But every time McNally asked to deploy the two Rescue Task Force teams — each made up of three paramedics and three to four law enforcement officers — the Broward Sheriff's Office captain in charge of the scene, Jan Jordan, said no.

"The [BSO] incident commander advised me, 'She would have to check,' " McNally wrote in the report released Thursday by Coral Springs. "After several minutes, I requested once again the need to deploy RTF elements into the scene to ... initiate treatment as soon as possible. Once again, the incident commander expressed that she 'would have to check before approving this request.' "

Even after the shooter had been arrested, the answer remained the same.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 96004.html
Image

The real tragedy in this is the terrible response from Broward County Police.
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UpstateSCHokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:The stupid diversity hire lady who told responding cops not to enter (not the Coward County guys...they had already ran) also didn't allow paramedics with armed escorts to enter - even after the perp was arrested.
Michael McNally, deputy chief for Coral Springs fire-rescue, asked six times for permission to send in specialized teams of police officers and paramedics, according to an incident report he filed after the Feb. 14 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting that left 17 people dead.

But every time McNally asked to deploy the two Rescue Task Force teams — each made up of three paramedics and three to four law enforcement officers — the Broward Sheriff's Office captain in charge of the scene, Jan Jordan, said no.

"The [BSO] incident commander advised me, 'She would have to check,' " McNally wrote in the report released Thursday by Coral Springs. "After several minutes, I requested once again the need to deploy RTF elements into the scene to ... initiate treatment as soon as possible. Once again, the incident commander expressed that she 'would have to check before approving this request.' "

Even after the shooter had been arrested, the answer remained the same.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 96004.html
Image

The real tragedy in this is the terrible response from Broward County Police.
Image
Image

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
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USN_Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by USN_Hokie »

UpstateSCHokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:The stupid diversity hire lady who told responding cops not to enter (not the Coward County guys...they had already ran) also didn't allow paramedics with armed escorts to enter - even after the perp was arrested.
Michael McNally, deputy chief for Coral Springs fire-rescue, asked six times for permission to send in specialized teams of police officers and paramedics, according to an incident report he filed after the Feb. 14 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting that left 17 people dead.

But every time McNally asked to deploy the two Rescue Task Force teams — each made up of three paramedics and three to four law enforcement officers — the Broward Sheriff's Office captain in charge of the scene, Jan Jordan, said no.

"The [BSO] incident commander advised me, 'She would have to check,' " McNally wrote in the report released Thursday by Coral Springs. "After several minutes, I requested once again the need to deploy RTF elements into the scene to ... initiate treatment as soon as possible. Once again, the incident commander expressed that she 'would have to check before approving this request.' "

Even after the shooter had been arrested, the answer remained the same.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 96004.html
Image

The real tragedy in this is the terrible response from Broward County Police.
Image
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USN_Hokie
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Re: How does a former student walk into a HS with guns

Post by USN_Hokie »

Well look at this. USN_Hokie is correct, and folks who proclaimedpretended the government would stop after putting their boots just a wee bit down on everyone's necks are wrong.

Alternate title: Washington looking to expand "red flag" laws, pretend UWS libertarians hardest hit quietly satisfied at more government so long as it doesn't regulate weed.
‘Red flag’ gun law should include minors, Washington state prosecutors say

https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-s ... ude-minors
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