Can someone explain to me
Forum rules
Be Civil. Go Hokies.
Be Civil. Go Hokies.
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Can someone explain to me
How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
-
- Posts: 18547
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:57 pm
Re: Can someone explain to me
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people. I think they do a lot of specialty products.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... in-austria
Last edited by HokieFanDC on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.HokieFanDC wrote:Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
-
- Posts: 18547
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:57 pm
Re: Can someone explain to me
See article I added to post.ip_law-hokie wrote:Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.HokieFanDC wrote:Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
I read it, but it still leaves me wondering why we can't do the same thing that they did in Austria. All the same old reasons (cheaper labor, lax environmental regulations, lower safety costs, no unions) don't seem to apply.HokieFanDC wrote:See article I added to post.ip_law-hokie wrote:Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.HokieFanDC wrote:Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
-
- Posts: 13399
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:25 pm
Re: Can someone explain to me
For China it is due to not having any work rules for employees and they don't give a flip about environmental issues, just see the waterways in the heavy industrial places. Add in that the companies have no need to make money, the gov. will prop them up just to keep employment highip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
Got it. Was curious about Europe.cwtcr hokie wrote:For China it is due to not having any work rules for employees and they don't give a flip about environmental issues, just see the waterways in the heavy industrial places. Add in that the companies have no need to make money, the gov. will prop them up just to keep employment highip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
-
- Posts: 18547
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:57 pm
Re: Can someone explain to me
Not really sure about that. Maybe stupidity, or arrogance?ip_law-hokie wrote:I read it, but it still leaves me wondering why we can't do the same thing that they did in Austria. All the same old reasons (cheaper labor, lax environmental regulations, lower safety costs, no unions) don't seem to apply.HokieFanDC wrote:See article I added to post.ip_law-hokie wrote:Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.HokieFanDC wrote:Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
Are you suggesting that the average American wage earner is not as intelligent as their German counterpart? Or more arrogant?HokieFanDC wrote:Not really sure about that. Maybe stupidity, or arrogance?ip_law-hokie wrote:I read it, but it still leaves me wondering why we can't do the same thing that they did in Austria. All the same old reasons (cheaper labor, lax environmental regulations, lower safety costs, no unions) don't seem to apply.HokieFanDC wrote:See article I added to post.ip_law-hokie wrote:Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.HokieFanDC wrote:Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
- HokieHam
- Posts: 26576
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:50 pm
- Location: Kicking over crayons in a safe space for libruls....
Re: Can someone explain to me
They are starting to crack down on polluters. It’s going to be interesting to see if they keep it up.cwtcr hokie wrote:For China it is due to not having any work rules for employees and they don't give a flip about environmental issues, just see the waterways in the heavy industrial places. Add in that the companies have no need to make money, the gov. will prop them up just to keep employment highip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
"if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-forever."
ip believes you can dial in a 78 year old man who suffers from deminishing mental function
Re: Can someone explain to me
"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
OK asshole. Have a nice day.miles wrote:"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
Re: Can someone explain to me
I’m not sure either. It’s a really good question though, especially when you consider a couple of other factors about the German economy and employment. For example, metal/steel manufacturing in Germany has a very strong apprenticeship culture and is highly unionized. The metal union negotiated and secured a significant raise this year and the flexibility to reduce their work hours to 28 per week for a period of 2 years without loss of employment. It’s kind of a mystery how that works (at least it is to me).ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Forbes has an article that may be of interest regarding manufacturing cars (which of course uses a large percentage of the steel produced and the workers belong to the same union as metal workers). It offers some theories.. I just skimmed the first three paragraphs. Reading it now....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/fredericka ... 4db6ed6b78
- awesome guy
- Posts: 54187
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:10 pm
- Party: After 10
- Location: Plastic Flotilla:Location Classified
Re: Can someone explain to me
You suck. Glad you left here. Please tell, why did you leave? I want to know as to run other like minded jackasses out of Richmond.ip_law-hokie wrote:OK asshole. Have a nice day.miles wrote:"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's odd how you think you're something when you came from nothing and still aren't much. I'm the opposite, I came from something and managed to do so without without the arrogance you picked up from your trailer park. You know, my little "Danville" family is worth 1000 times what your poor and broken family is worth. Nevermind, there's no point in trying to comprehend trash.
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
- Major Kong
- Posts: 15753
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:35 pm
- Alma Mater: Ferrum VT ASU
- Party: Independent
- Location: Somewhere between Marion and Seven Mile Ford
Re: Can someone explain to me
China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
- HokieHam
- Posts: 26576
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:50 pm
- Location: Kicking over crayons in a safe space for libruls....
Re: Can someone explain to me
Yup.Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
"if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-forever."
ip believes you can dial in a 78 year old man who suffers from deminishing mental function
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
Got it.awesome guy wrote:You suck. Glad you left here. Please tell, why did you leave? I want to know as to run other like minded jackasses out of Richmond.ip_law-hokie wrote:OK asshole. Have a nice day.miles wrote:"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's odd how you think you're something when you came from nothing and still aren't much. I'm the opposite, I came from something and managed to do so without without the arrogance you picked up from your trailer park. You know, my little "Danville" family is worth 1000 times what your poor and broken family is worth. Nevermind, there's no point in trying to comprehend trash.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
- awesome guy
- Posts: 54187
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:10 pm
- Party: After 10
- Location: Plastic Flotilla:Location Classified
Re: Can someone explain to me
Traship_law-hokie wrote:Got it.awesome guy wrote:You suck. Glad you left here. Please tell, why did you leave? I want to know as to run other like minded jackasses out of Richmond.ip_law-hokie wrote:OK asshole. Have a nice day.miles wrote:"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's odd how you think you're something when you came from nothing and still aren't much. I'm the opposite, I came from something and managed to do so without without the arrogance you picked up from your trailer park. You know, my little "Danville" family is worth 1000 times what your poor and broken family is worth. Nevermind, there's no point in trying to comprehend trash.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
-
- Posts: 11220
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:29 am
Re: Can someone explain to me
Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
- awesome guy
- Posts: 54187
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:10 pm
- Party: After 10
- Location: Plastic Flotilla:Location Classified
Re: Can someone explain to me
Inverse, imports that much133743Hokie wrote:Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
- ip_law-hokie
- Posts: 19133
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm
- Alma Mater: Manchester
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Can someone explain to me
Really? We are starting a trade war over 10%?133743Hokie wrote:Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Is that number debatable?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
-
- Posts: 11220
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:29 am
Re: Can someone explain to me
So, based on 2017 data here's what I've found. US produced 82 metric tonnes (not sure of the units as that seems small, but the numeric figures are correct) in 2017. Imported 2.5 per month, on average, and exported 0.5 per month on average. So a deficit of 2 per month or 24 per year. Looks like about 30% imports. Interestingly US is operating at only 75% capacity, roughly.ip_law-hokie wrote:Really? We are starting a trade war over 10%?133743Hokie wrote:Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Is that number debatable?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- awesome guy
- Posts: 54187
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:10 pm
- Party: After 10
- Location: Plastic Flotilla:Location Classified
Re: Can someone explain to me
Is that mined or processed?133743Hokie wrote:So, based on 2017 data here's what I've found. US produced 82 metric tonnes (not sure of the units as that seems small, but the numeric figures are correct) in 2017. Imported 2.5 per month, on average, and exported 0.5 per month on average. So a deficit of 2 per month or 24 per year. Looks like about 30% imports. Interestingly US is operating at only 75% capacity, roughly.ip_law-hokie wrote:Really? We are starting a trade war over 10%?133743Hokie wrote:Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).
The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Is that number debatable?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
- Major Kong
- Posts: 15753
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:35 pm
- Alma Mater: Ferrum VT ASU
- Party: Independent
- Location: Somewhere between Marion and Seven Mile Ford
Re: Can someone explain to me
Good info133743Hokie wrote:So, based on 2017 data here's what I've found. US produced 82 metric tonnes (not sure of the units as that seems small, but the numeric figures are correct) in 2017. Imported 2.5 per month, on average, and exported 0.5 per month on average. So a deficit of 2 per month or 24 per year. Looks like about 30% imports. Interestingly US is operating at only 75% capacity, roughly.
Just an aside...back in my smelting days (copper) I know that a great deal of primary feed for steel was recycled steel (we call it reverts).
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
-
- Posts: 3192
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:27 pm
Re: Can someone explain to me
You can't be serious?ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?
No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.