Can someone explain to me

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ip_law-hokie
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Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by HokieFanDC »

ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people. I think they do a lot of specialty products.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... in-austria
Last edited by HokieFanDC on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.
Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.
Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.
See article I added to post.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.
Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.
See article I added to post.
I read it, but it still leaves me wondering why we can't do the same thing that they did in Austria. All the same old reasons (cheaper labor, lax environmental regulations, lower safety costs, no unions) don't seem to apply.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by cwtcr hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
For China it is due to not having any work rules for employees and they don't give a flip about environmental issues, just see the waterways in the heavy industrial places. Add in that the companies have no need to make money, the gov. will prop them up just to keep employment high
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
For China it is due to not having any work rules for employees and they don't give a flip about environmental issues, just see the waterways in the heavy industrial places. Add in that the companies have no need to make money, the gov. will prop them up just to keep employment high
Got it. Was curious about Europe.


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Re: Can someone explain to me

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ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.
Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.
See article I added to post.
I read it, but it still leaves me wondering why we can't do the same thing that they did in Austria. All the same old reasons (cheaper labor, lax environmental regulations, lower safety costs, no unions) don't seem to apply.
Not really sure about that. Maybe stupidity, or arrogance?
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
Government funded pensions and retirement payouts, minimills, and automation. Europe has high production, and not that many people.
Not sure I'm following completely. While I agree that the Germans can produce anything more efficiently, and better, than most others, I don't follow the rest of your post.
See article I added to post.
I read it, but it still leaves me wondering why we can't do the same thing that they did in Austria. All the same old reasons (cheaper labor, lax environmental regulations, lower safety costs, no unions) don't seem to apply.
Not really sure about that. Maybe stupidity, or arrogance?
Are you suggesting that the average American wage earner is not as intelligent as their German counterpart? Or more arrogant?
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by HokieHam »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
For China it is due to not having any work rules for employees and they don't give a flip about environmental issues, just see the waterways in the heavy industrial places. Add in that the companies have no need to make money, the gov. will prop them up just to keep employment high
They are starting to crack down on polluters. It’s going to be interesting to see if they keep it up.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by miles »

ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

miles wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
OK asshole. Have a nice day.


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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by Once »

ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
I’m not sure either. It’s a really good question though, especially when you consider a couple of other factors about the German economy and employment. For example, metal/steel manufacturing in Germany has a very strong apprenticeship culture and is highly unionized. The metal union negotiated and secured a significant raise this year and the flexibility to reduce their work hours to 28 per week for a period of 2 years without loss of employment. It’s kind of a mystery how that works (at least it is to me).

Forbes has an article that may be of interest regarding manufacturing cars (which of course uses a large percentage of the steel produced and the workers belong to the same union as metal workers). It offers some theories.. I just skimmed the first three paragraphs. Reading it now....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/fredericka ... 4db6ed6b78
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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ip_law-hokie wrote:
miles wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
OK asshole. Have a nice day.


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You suck. Glad you left here. Please tell, why did you leave? I want to know as to run other like minded jackasses out of Richmond.

It's odd how you think you're something when you came from nothing and still aren't much. I'm the opposite, I came from something and managed to do so without without the arrogance you picked up from your trailer park. You know, my little "Danville" family is worth 1000 times what your poor and broken family is worth. Nevermind, there's no point in trying to comprehend trash.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Yup.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

awesome guy wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
miles wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
OK asshole. Have a nice day.


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You suck. Glad you left here. Please tell, why did you leave? I want to know as to run other like minded jackasses out of Richmond.

It's odd how you think you're something when you came from nothing and still aren't much. I'm the opposite, I came from something and managed to do so without without the arrogance you picked up from your trailer park. You know, my little "Danville" family is worth 1000 times what your poor and broken family is worth. Nevermind, there's no point in trying to comprehend trash.
Got it.


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Re: Can someone explain to me

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ip_law-hokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
miles wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
"Europe" is a misleading term for producer and exporter or trader. You must examine the country of origin, its particular government/industrial/capital and trading partnerships and/or subsidies on exports/tariffs on imports. It's a murky playing field. U.S. entities are often playing checkers while competitors play chess.
But, a couple of simplifications may pierce your foggy gray matter: consider the terms, "loss leader" and "market share".
OK asshole. Have a nice day.


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You suck. Glad you left here. Please tell, why did you leave? I want to know as to run other like minded jackasses out of Richmond.

It's odd how you think you're something when you came from nothing and still aren't much. I'm the opposite, I came from something and managed to do so without without the arrogance you picked up from your trailer park. You know, my little "Danville" family is worth 1000 times what your poor and broken family is worth. Nevermind, there's no point in trying to comprehend trash.
Got it.


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Trash
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by 133743Hokie »

Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?
Inverse, imports that much
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by ip_law-hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?
Really? We are starting a trade war over 10%?

Is that number debatable?


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Re: Can someone explain to me

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ip_law-hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?
Really? We are starting a trade war over 10%?

Is that number debatable?


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So, based on 2017 data here's what I've found. US produced 82 metric tonnes (not sure of the units as that seems small, but the numeric figures are correct) in 2017. Imported 2.5 per month, on average, and exported 0.5 per month on average. So a deficit of 2 per month or 24 per year. Looks like about 30% imports. Interestingly US is operating at only 75% capacity, roughly.
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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133743Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:China, Japan and India dwarf the rest of the world in steel production (China is by far - 7X more than Japan - the largest producer).

The US is a Top 5 producer...Russia and South Korea are up there too. Germany comes in at about ½ of the US and surprisingly Brazil is up there also.
Doesn't the US produce about 90% or more of the steel it uses?
Really? We are starting a trade war over 10%?

Is that number debatable?


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So, based on 2017 data here's what I've found. US produced 82 metric tonnes (not sure of the units as that seems small, but the numeric figures are correct) in 2017. Imported 2.5 per month, on average, and exported 0.5 per month on average. So a deficit of 2 per month or 24 per year. Looks like about 30% imports. Interestingly US is operating at only 75% capacity, roughly.
Is that mined or processed?
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Re: Can someone explain to me

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133743Hokie wrote:So, based on 2017 data here's what I've found. US produced 82 metric tonnes (not sure of the units as that seems small, but the numeric figures are correct) in 2017. Imported 2.5 per month, on average, and exported 0.5 per month on average. So a deficit of 2 per month or 24 per year. Looks like about 30% imports. Interestingly US is operating at only 75% capacity, roughly.
Good info :!:

Just an aside...back in my smelting days (copper) I know that a great deal of primary feed for steel was recycled steel (we call it reverts).
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Re: Can someone explain to me

Post by CFB Apologist »

ip_law-hokie wrote:How Europe is able to produce and export steel cheaper than we can produce it here?

No political angle here. I just do not understand how that is possible.
You can't be serious?
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