Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article I

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PolyTech
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by PolyTech »

fatman wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:Those pricks charge 12K for a battery capacity software upgrade to their lower priced cars. Free for their more expensive cars. They have zero interest in the "common" consumer. All they care about is the 100K car market.
All cars have premium packages. For example, Toyota charges for "Toyota Sensing". Consumers are agreeing to purchase a car that has a lower mileage range. If they want higher then they purchase it. Premium cars purchase the higher mileage range. It's an option. Pretty sweet of a car company to give consumers an upgrade in Florida when a hurricane is coming.

Would it be better if they installed a smaller battery and never had the option to upgrade?
Invalid comparison. This is not buying a Camry "limited" vs. the SE at purchase time. This is apple pushing out IOS 11 free to IPhone X phones, but $200.00 for same upgrade for IPhone 8 or 7s. It's bullshit
No, the consumer paid for certain battery capacity when they purchased the car. Maybe it would be better for them to produce different battery sizes, drive up the cost, and never have the option.
I'm not against this per se, but you could argue that the people who don't have the extended range are unknowingly subsidizing the cost for those who do.

My guess (aside from the marketing perspective) is that making it an extra cost option is done to limit warranty issues - ie, their testing showed that operating the batteries closer to full discharge induced much higher failure rates.
USN. Are you guys talking about ludicrous mode? That is a software feature that gives you better than Ferrari speed. Not for everyone, but I think that is worth the extra $10k.
Pretty sure ludicrous mode is a hardware upgrade, too - I think beefier busbars to handle all the current.

I just don't understand Tesla - I get that the barrier to entry for a lot of traditional industries is lower for a variety of reasons, but other folks can come through as easily as Tesla. Price point is actually helpful in some ways; it's an obvious status symbol in Cali because of the envirocrap (not to mention that you can travel in HOV lanes with the things). A lot of the allure is virtue signalling. Car buyers, particularly Californians, are obviously status conscious. Before Tesla, I was always amazed at the number of 'comfort coupe' Mercedes you'd see out there, but a lot of that was supplanted by Tesla.

I wouldn't do well there - I just bought a Kia to replace a Hyundai. Great car that I'm getting kinda used to, but it's really entertaining to show it to brand conscious people. They just don't understand - you can see how they're completely mystified. There's huge value to them in the nameplate, and I'm a guy that should ostensibly be buying German. Wife has a Volvo, maybe that's close enough.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by 133743Hokie »

CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:Those pricks charge 12K for a battery capacity software upgrade to their lower priced cars. Free for their more expensive cars. They have zero interest in the "common" consumer. All they care about is the 100K car market.
All cars have premium packages. For example, Toyota charges for "Toyota Sensing". Consumers are agreeing to purchase a car that has a lower mileage range. If they want higher then they purchase it. Premium cars purchase the higher mileage range. It's an option. Pretty sweet of a car company to give consumers an upgrade in Florida when a hurricane is coming.

Would it be better if they installed a smaller battery and never had the option to upgrade?
Invalid comparison. This is not buying a Camry "limited" vs. the SE at purchase time. This is apple pushing out IOS 11 free to IPhone X phones, but $200.00 for same upgrade for IPhone 8 or 7s. It's bullshit
No it isn't. You didn't pay for extended range so you dont get it. The fact that it can be accomplished thru a software revision is irrelevant. It's an added feature and benefit.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by 133743Hokie »

CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:Those pricks charge 12K for a battery capacity software upgrade to their lower priced cars. Free for their more expensive cars. They have zero interest in the "common" consumer. All they care about is the 100K car market.
All cars have premium packages. For example, Toyota charges for "Toyota Sensing". Consumers are agreeing to purchase a car that has a lower mileage range. If they want higher then they purchase it. Premium cars purchase the higher mileage range. It's an option. Pretty sweet of a car company to give consumers an upgrade in Florida when a hurricane is coming.

Would it be better if they installed a smaller battery and never had the option to upgrade?
Invalid comparison. This is not buying a Camry "limited" vs. the SE at purchase time. This is apple pushing out IOS 11 free to IPhone X phones, but $200.00 for same upgrade for IPhone 8 or 7s. It's bullshit
No, the consumer paid for certain battery capacity when they purchased the car. Maybe it would be better for them to produce different battery sizes, drive up the cost, and never have the option.
The battery is installed in the lower priced car already. The lower priced consumer paid for the hardware/capacity- unless you argue the asinine point that those batteries were "subsidized" by Tesla as a loss leader? LOL. at any rate, does the base level Camry come with a bose radio installed, with a simple "switch" from Toyota to turn on the surround sound? Nope. It doesn't come with the good radio installed. So your comparison is invalid. Saying the lower priced customers didn't pay for the battery is invalid. This is a BS move from an elitist car company.
You're heartache is over technology allowing the upgrade to occur vs. some physical manipulation. You're about 50 years behind.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by USN_Hokie »

Yeah, this isn't going to help...
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by fatman »

USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
Also not surprising, similar issues when they scrambled to meet the production demands of the roadster. I love the model 3, but there are going to have a lot of quality issues with the production runs happening under this much pressure. Quality will improve as musk scales up the model 3 production infrastructure.

Musk is the most badass entrepreneur of his generation, he's surpassed jobs at this point. Bezos, the anti-trump, is probably his only competition.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by awesome guy »

fatman wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
Also not surprising, similar issues when they scrambled to meet the production demands of the roadster. I love the model 3, but there are going to have a lot of quality issues with the production runs happening under this much pressure. Quality will improve as musk scales up the model 3 production infrastructure.

Musk is the most badass entrepreneur of his generation, he's surpassed jobs at this point. Bezos, the anti-trump, is probably his only competition.
He's a master at bilking the public.
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fatman
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by fatman »

awesome guy wrote:
fatman wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
Also not surprising, similar issues when they scrambled to meet the production demands of the roadster. I love the model 3, but there are going to have a lot of quality issues with the production runs happening under this much pressure. Quality will improve as musk scales up the model 3 production infrastructure.

Musk is the most badass entrepreneur of his generation, he's surpassed jobs at this point. Bezos, the anti-trump, is probably his only competition.
He's a master at bilking the public.
Are you speaking about Steve Jobs or Elon Musk? Musk's shareholders should be aware that he runs extremely ambitious companies and he often skirts the limits of bankruptcy as he will simultaneously be betting the farm on 4 different impossible missions. SpaceX is an amazing company, privatizing space travel and taking it out of the sole domain of the Gov't. Tesla may indeed fail, basically every car manufacturer is turning into an EV manufacturer, so he'll continue to have to be UMBC defeating UVa to win in that space. If he does continue to win, the prize will be enormous.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by awesome guy »

fatman wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
fatman wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
USN_Hokie wrote:Yeah, this isn't going to help...
Also not surprising, similar issues when they scrambled to meet the production demands of the roadster. I love the model 3, but there are going to have a lot of quality issues with the production runs happening under this much pressure. Quality will improve as musk scales up the model 3 production infrastructure.

Musk is the most badass entrepreneur of his generation, he's surpassed jobs at this point. Bezos, the anti-trump, is probably his only competition.
He's a master at bilking the public.
Are you speaking about Steve Jobs or Elon Musk? Musk's shareholders should be aware that he runs extremely ambitious companies and he often skirts the limits of bankruptcy as he will simultaneously be betting the farm on 4 different impossible missions. SpaceX is an amazing company, privatizing space travel and taking it out of the sole domain of the Gov't. Tesla may indeed fail, basically every car manufacturer is turning into an EV manufacturer, so he'll continue to have to be UMBC defeating UVa to win in that space. If he does continue to win, the prize will be enormous.
SUVs and trucks are back, not EVs. And you just reiterated my point, he's living off public money.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by CFB Apologist »

133743Hokie wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:Those pricks charge 12K for a battery capacity software upgrade to their lower priced cars. Free for their more expensive cars. They have zero interest in the "common" consumer. All they care about is the 100K car market.
All cars have premium packages. For example, Toyota charges for "Toyota Sensing". Consumers are agreeing to purchase a car that has a lower mileage range. If they want higher then they purchase it. Premium cars purchase the higher mileage range. It's an option. Pretty sweet of a car company to give consumers an upgrade in Florida when a hurricane is coming.

Would it be better if they installed a smaller battery and never had the option to upgrade?
Invalid comparison. This is not buying a Camry "limited" vs. the SE at purchase time. This is apple pushing out IOS 11 free to IPhone X phones, but $200.00 for same upgrade for IPhone 8 or 7s. It's bullshit
No it isn't. You didn't pay for extended range so you dont get it. The fact that it can be accomplished thru a software revision is irrelevant. It's an added feature and benefit.
Nope, you are missing the point- I don't care about software- they pushed the "update" out for FREE to their higher end cars, so they "didn't pay for extended range".. their "low end" 60K car customers had to pay- a ton.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by CFB Apologist »

133743Hokie wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
CFB Apologist wrote:Those pricks charge 12K for a battery capacity software upgrade to their lower priced cars. Free for their more expensive cars. They have zero interest in the "common" consumer. All they care about is the 100K car market.
All cars have premium packages. For example, Toyota charges for "Toyota Sensing". Consumers are agreeing to purchase a car that has a lower mileage range. If they want higher then they purchase it. Premium cars purchase the higher mileage range. It's an option. Pretty sweet of a car company to give consumers an upgrade in Florida when a hurricane is coming.

Would it be better if they installed a smaller battery and never had the option to upgrade?
Invalid comparison. This is not buying a Camry "limited" vs. the SE at purchase time. This is apple pushing out IOS 11 free to IPhone X phones, but $200.00 for same upgrade for IPhone 8 or 7s. It's bullshit
No, the consumer paid for certain battery capacity when they purchased the car. Maybe it would be better for them to produce different battery sizes, drive up the cost, and never have the option.
The battery is installed in the lower priced car already. The lower priced consumer paid for the hardware/capacity- unless you argue the asinine point that those batteries were "subsidized" by Tesla as a loss leader? LOL. at any rate, does the base level Camry come with a bose radio installed, with a simple "switch" from Toyota to turn on the surround sound? Nope. It doesn't come with the good radio installed. So your comparison is invalid. Saying the lower priced customers didn't pay for the battery is invalid. This is a BS move from an elitist car company.
You're heartache is over technology allowing the upgrade to occur vs. some physical manipulation. You're about 50 years behind.
Nope. Proles had to pay, their SUV customers did not. None of this was part of the initial sale. I DGAF about software vs. hardware- not my point.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by cwtcr hokie »

fatman wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:pasted in:

Time is running out for Tesla's unmet promises.

The leading electric car maker's struggles to ramp up production of its first mass-market car, the Model 3, could mean a cash crunch for the upstart automaker.

Tesla (TSLA) has thousands of customers lined up ready to buy a Model 3, which has a $35,000 starting price. But it keeps badly missing its production targets, and it is burning through cash as it does so. And it faces deadlines to pay more than $1 billion in bonds due over the the next year - $230 million due in November and $920 million next March.
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Concerns about its cash positions could grow worse when it reports actual first quarter numbers next week. Moody's downgraded its debt deeper into junk bond status on Tuesday and warned more downgrades could be coming. Standard & Poor's also has warned of the possibility of a downgrade.

Bloomberg has been tracking production by continuously monitoring the issuance of vehicle identification numbers issued by the NTSB. It estimates that production stands at 1,026 a week, a big jump from the fourth quarter but less than half the 2,500 a week target that Tesla has set for the end of the third quarter, which concludes Saturday.

"That would be a pretty significant miss," said Bruce Clark, the credit analyst at Moody's. "We're not drawing a line in the sand by any means. But part of the issue is reestablishing credibility with constituents. At the end of the day, the company's credibility will be significantly impacted by how close they are to that 2,500 run rate."

The company had originally promised it would be making 5,000 Model 3's every week by the end of last year, but delivered only 222 in the third quarter, and another 1,542 throughout the entire fourth quarter. It has now pushed the 5,000 a week target back to the end of June.

Related: Tesla stock falls after NTSB announces it will investigate fatal crash

Tesla has never made a full-year profit as its grown into a major force in the auto industry. But investors, lenders and customers have been big believers in its charismatic CEO Elon Musk, at least to this point. They've provided him with the cash he needed to challenge the established players in the industry.

They've bought additional shares sold by the company in secondary offerings. They've driven up stock price to give the company nearly the market value of established automakers like Ford (F) or General Motors (GM), which both produce billions in annual profits and sell millions of vehicles. Customers have paid deposits of $1,000 each for cars they wouldn't see for years, giving Tesla nearly $1 billion worth of deposits. And, of course, it has also been able to sell bonds to raise cash.

Clark said he doesn't believe the company is facing any imminent cash crunch, but that if it continues to struggle to ramp up production of the Model 3 its "liquidity position is going to get tight in the next several quarters. That's why we see the need for them to go back to the financial markets."

And it will become more difficult, and more expensive, to raise that money if there are further doubts about it meeting its production goals.

Related: New Tesla pay package could make Elon Musk richest man in the world

It could also cause problems with the company's supplier base. Tesla reported it owed $2.4 billion in accounts payable at the end of last year. That's not a huge number as long suppliers continue to bill for the parts and raw materials.

But the credit agency downgrade could prompt suppliers to start demanding cash at the time of delivery, according to John Thompson, CEO of hedge fund Vilas Capital Management, which has its largest position shorting Tesla shares, betting big that the stock will fall sharply in value.

"Why did Toys 'R' Us go bankrupt? Its suppliers cut it off. You can have altruistic equity holders, you can have altruistic bond holders, altruistic customers. But suppliers are cold and calculating from my experience," he said.

In an email to his clients this week he again predicted a looming cash crunch for Tesla could even lead to bankruptcy later this year.

A company spokesman would not comment on the downgrade or Thompson's commentary.
CNNMoney (New York) First published March 28, 2018: 1:45 PM ET

Not paying your A/P will work for awhile, then it won't. $1 billion in deposits????? and that cash is being burned thru quickly, not good.
Nothing new here. The demand for model 3 has massively outstripped capacity and production delays on the model 3 have been a major topic for more than a year. Musk is the most badass entrepreneur in America so if anyone can pull off this miracle it is him. You should read his autobiography or watch a documentary on him. He had similar issues getting roadsters out to all the people who wanted it.
even in his businesses normal business issues will prevail, we will see
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by USN_Hokie »

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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by cwtcr hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:Tesla shares drop almost 7%

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-st ... 00637.html
yea, that dude killing himself while in auto drive mode prob ain't going to help them much, just happened the last few days. From the report I saw it looked like the tesla split in half from the impact
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by USN_Hokie »

cwtcr hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Tesla shares drop almost 7%

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-st ... 00637.html
yea, that dude killing himself while in auto drive mode prob ain't going to help them much, just happened the last few days. From the report I saw it looked like the tesla split in half from the impact
Tesla's response memo was interesting. In part, they warned that their "autopilot" was not autonomous.

Not going to delve into the difference between automatic and autonomous, but that seems like sleazy marketing / legal maneuvering.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by awesome guy »

USN_Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Tesla shares drop almost 7%

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-st ... 00637.html
yea, that dude killing himself while in auto drive mode prob ain't going to help them much, just happened the last few days. From the report I saw it looked like the tesla split in half from the impact
Tesla's response memo was interesting. In part, they warned that their "autopilot" was not autonomous.

Not going to delve into the difference between automatic and autonomous, but that seems like sleazy marketing / legal maneuvering.
Typical of a snake oil salesman.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Tesla shares drop almost 7%

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-st ... 00637.html
yea, that dude killing himself while in auto drive mode prob ain't going to help them much, just happened the last few days. From the report I saw it looked like the tesla split in half from the impact
Tesla's response memo was interesting. In part, they warned that their "autopilot" was not autonomous.

Not going to delve into the difference between automatic and autonomous, but that seems like sleazy marketing / legal maneuvering.
I agree that semantical arguments are tiring.


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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: Fatman may want to check his Tesla holdings, see article

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Tesla shares drop almost 7%

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-st ... 00637.html
yea, that dude killing himself while in auto drive mode prob ain't going to help them much, just happened the last few days. From the report I saw it looked like the tesla split in half from the impact
Tesla's response memo was interesting. In part, they warned that their "autopilot" was not autonomous.

Not going to delve into the difference between automatic and autonomous, but that seems like sleazy marketing / legal maneuvering.
I agree that semantical arguments are tiring.


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Depends on what your definition of are, is.

Lol, isn't that what lawyers do?
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