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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:16 am 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:

I'm sorry, I assumed you understood how heat radiates. We can have Mr. Wizard explain that next. :lol:

I'm dying here. When you were talking about trials I assumed you meant wear/durability and traffic safety, not a full-on global warming science fair project.


Maybe you should just read what I wrote, instead of making up your own BS.

"Reducing the localized temp increases from dark surfaces". It's a pretty simple concept. People have been working on reducing urban heat for a while now.


You keep saying the same thing over and over as if that makes it less silly.


I'm hoping at some point, you'll comprehend that what I wrote, and what they're trying to determine, isn't "to see if dark stuff gets hotter in the sun". I'm not optimistic.


I'm laughing my arse off imagining you out there with a thermometer measuring the temperature. I'd love to hear what your test design would look like.

You truly are a Kalifornian, and you look like a dufus defending this idiocy. DC....saving the earth...one $40k mile of white paint at a time.


At least you stopped with your moronic nonsense about figuring out if dark surfaces get hot. You slink away from that, and try something else.
Of course, you've moved on to more idiocy. I'm sure you know there are dozens of ways to measure air and surface temps.

As for this trial, I don't really care what you think. You sound like a 75 year old grocery store bagger with a GED.
People who are afraid to try new things never accomplish anything meaningful. This might be a horrible failure. It may work great.
Here's a question. Why do you think $40k/mile is an astronomical number. How much do you think it costs to repave or maintain a mile of road? $1M? $2M? Every 10 or 15 years? What if this sealant gives you an extra year or 2? Then it pays for itself. Of course, you'd never know the answer to that. You'd still be coughing up dirt balls in your covered wagon. :mrgreen:


HUH? it cost 40k a mile and does not proclaim that it saves wear and tear on the road, how would it? But even if it meant that the road did not have to be repaved for an extra year, then yes if the road has to be paved every 10 years then it would save that $1m per mile in 10 pave cycles or 100 years......thank god for that savings


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:21 am 
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133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:21 am 
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In all seriousness I know Pima County & Tucson looked into ways to combat the Asphalt Effect for black topped roads and asphalt roofs.

Using white coatings on roads was considered but back 20 years ago it was discounted because of cost...on roofs if you had an asphalt roof then most folks already were using a white color to reflect the sunlight.

If I'm not mistaken though what the study mostly found is that there was no way to paint the Sonoran Desert white.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:56 am 
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Major Kong wrote:
In all seriousness I know Pima County & Tucson looked into ways to combat the Asphalt Effect for black topped roads and asphalt roofs.

Using white coatings on roads was considered but back 20 years ago it was discounted because of cost...on roofs if you had an asphalt roof then most folks already were using a white color to reflect the sunlight.

If I'm not mistaken though what the study mostly found is that there was no way to paint the Sonoran Desert white.

They use white membrane roofs to reflect heat and reduce A/C costs.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:57 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

Wasn't commenting on the rationale or effectiveness, just the price.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:58 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:08 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
They use white membrane roofs to reflect heat and reduce A/C costs.
Ayup...our neighbors with Santa Fe type houses were all about the TPO. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:13 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
Major Kong wrote:
In all seriousness I know Pima County & Tucson looked into ways to combat the Asphalt Effect for black topped roads and asphalt roofs.

Using white coatings on roads was considered but back 20 years ago it was discounted because of cost...on roofs if you had an asphalt roof then most folks already were using a white color to reflect the sunlight.

If I'm not mistaken though what the study mostly found is that there was no way to paint the Sonoran Desert white.

They use white membrane roofs to reflect heat and reduce A/C costs.
Why? I thought they were all Spanish tile </Hank Hill voice>. Seriously, membrane color shouldn't matter under the clay tiles.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:35 pm 
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awesome guy wrote:
Why? I thought they were all Spanish tile </Hank Hill voice>. Seriously, membrane color shouldn't matter under the clay tiles.
Mission type building/houses, like the house we had, have clay tile roofs although many contractors are recommending light colored TPO roofs.

Santa Fe type building/houses have flat roofs.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:31 pm 
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HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:02 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


A 10sec Google search says the cost for a normal topcoat is $12k/mile. That's a significant increase....assuming it needs done at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:08 pm 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed

They are in many parts of the country.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:12 pm 
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HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed

They are in many parts of the country.


I'm guessing northern climates which see more rain/freeze/salt/etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:17 pm 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed

They are in many parts of the country.


I'm guessing northern climates which see more rain/freeze/salt/etc.


More teeth, less dirt roads.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:23 pm 
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HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed

They are in many parts of the country.


that is a waste of dollars, with the traffic most streets get they are going to crack and open up some no matter what you do to them, more efficient to re-pave then spend time and money sealing I would think. But I don't get to spend taxpayer dollars so I am more frugal


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:25 pm 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed

They are in many parts of the country.


that is a waste of dollars, with the traffic most streets get they are going to crack and open up some no matter what you do to them, more efficient to re-pave then spend time and money sealing I would think. But I don't get to spend taxpayer dollars so I am more frugal


You have a wide array of expertise. A renaissance man.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:47 pm 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieHam wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
$40k per mile is about $0.30 per square foot. Not unreasonable for an in place cost.


except streets are not ever sealed, driveways, parking lots are..... city streets are not

heck in my area they do not even pave, they spread a layer of liquid asphalt down then put a layer of small stone on it and then let us drive on it until it gets compacted into what appears to be a paved road.

City streets are sealed........


In nc they are not, I see plenty of parking lots but never a city/county owned road sealed

They are in many parts of the country.


I'm guessing northern climates which see more rain/freeze/salt/etc.

Also in hot climates. It varies. There is some evidence it prolongs the life of Asphalt......some.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Quote:
that is a waste of dollars, with the traffic most streets get they are going to crack and open up some no matter what you do to them, more efficient to re-pave then spend time and money sealing I would think. But I don't get to spend taxpayer dollars so I am more frugal

Concrete cracks, asphalt cracks......all require maintenance. If there is evidence of a certain system working and prolonging life of initial structures and roads, it is more than worth it to use preservation to do this. Slurry sealing asphalt roads is just a small cost when figuring actual paving of roads.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:19 pm 
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HokieHam wrote:
Quote:
that is a waste of dollars, with the traffic most streets get they are going to crack and open up some no matter what you do to them, more efficient to re-pave then spend time and money sealing I would think. But I don't get to spend taxpayer dollars so I am more frugal

Concrete cracks, asphalt cracks......all require maintenance. If there is evidence of a certain system working and prolonging life of initial structures and roads, it is more than worth it to use preservation to do this. Slurry sealing asphalt roads is just a small cost when figuring actual paving of roads.


for sure there is a cost analysis to be done, but if you are spending substantial dollars to extend the life by a short time period then to me anyways that is a waste of dollars. If it prevents having to re-surface for a good amount of time then there can be a cost savings. My issue with gov. in general is they are not spending their own dollars and it is very easy to spend somebody elses cash so they go ahead and spend the funds even though the cost savings is very small over a long period of time if any.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:28 pm 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
No one has a test design to counteract global warming, because that's not the goal.



Did you read the link in my original post? That's exactly what the government ("bureau of street services"... Lol, wtf?) says they're doing.

Even better, it sounds like they literally did measure the street surface temperature to "prove" that it works at combating climate change.

http://bss.lacity.org/PDFs/STREET_TALK_2017_05.pdf

Again, the truth is probably that this whole thing is a kickback to someone.


Here's exactly what it says they are doing.

"Officials in Los Angeles have been painting streets white to reduce the effect of urban "heat islands" and combat the effects of climate change.

And the goal of combating the effect of climate change, ie heat: "The goal of these efforts are reducing the risk of heat-related deaths, to save energy by reducing air conditioning, and replicate these results in each council districts designated streets."

And of course they're measuring street temps. The less heat in the roads, the cooler the whole area.

Could it be a kickback, sure. You can say that about almost any govt program, anywhere.


1. Try harder. They (the government) said they're doing it to combat global warming. You're quoting FoxNews.

2. Oh look, we've returned to the stupid 6th grade science fair project where we learn that lighter colors reflect more heat which you've tried to deny. Again, maybe you should call Mr. Wizard instead of wasting $40k/mile on white paint if that's supposed to be the measure of its efficacy.


On #1, there were zero quotes in the FoxNews article you posted, from the government, about the project. So, yeah, for the first quote, I quoted Fox News on that one. The second quote came directly from the BSS link you posted.

On #2, just stop. We know white reflects heat, we don't know the effect of it's application to road surfaces, is on heat islands, reducing wear and tear, etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:05 pm 
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I was just northbound rte 288 in RVA. It felt so nice, I cracked the windows to enjoy the cool air. I noticed the highway was white concrete pavement. Niiiice.

Crossed the river and it became black asphalt. Damn. I put the windows up, turned on the A/C. There was a crying indian on the right shoulder, bemoaning Henrico's devastated polar bear population.

Sad.
:cry:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:14 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
I was just northbound rte 288 in RVA. It felt so nice, I cracked the windows to enjoy the cool air. I noticed the highway was white concrete pavement. Niiiice.

Crossed the river and it became black asphalt. Damn. I put the windows up, turned on the A/C. There was a crying indian on the right shoulder, bemoaning Henrico's devastated polar bear population.

Sad.
:cry:


True story!
Well done. These are tears of laughter.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:44 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
No one has a test design to counteract global warming, because that's not the goal.



Did you read the link in my original post? That's exactly what the government ("bureau of street services"... Lol, wtf?) says they're doing.

Even better, it sounds like they literally did measure the street surface temperature to "prove" that it works at combating climate change.

http://bss.lacity.org/PDFs/STREET_TALK_2017_05.pdf

Again, the truth is probably that this whole thing is a kickback to someone.


Here's exactly what it says they are doing.

"Officials in Los Angeles have been painting streets white to reduce the effect of urban "heat islands" and combat the effects of climate change.

And the goal of combating the effect of climate change, ie heat: "The goal of these efforts are reducing the risk of heat-related deaths, to save energy by reducing air conditioning, and replicate these results in each council districts designated streets."

And of course they're measuring street temps. The less heat in the roads, the cooler the whole area.

Could it be a kickback, sure. You can say that about almost any govt program, anywhere.


1. Try harder. They (the government) said they're doing it to combat global warming. You're quoting FoxNews.

2. Oh look, we've returned to the stupid 6th grade science fair project where we learn that lighter colors reflect more heat which you've tried to deny. Again, maybe you should call Mr. Wizard instead of wasting $40k/mile on white paint if that's supposed to be the measure of its efficacy.


On #1, there were zero quotes in the FoxNews article you posted, from the government, about the project. So, yeah, for the first quote, I quoted Fox News on that one. The second quote came directly from the BSS link you posted.

On #2, just stop. We know white reflects heat, we don't know the effect of it's application to road surfaces, is on heat islands, reducing wear and tear, etc.


1. I was quoting the embedded link to the government document which I provided to you.

2. Don't pretend there's any serious test design to measure these "heat islands". They're taking meaningless road surface temperatures and calling it a win. The "trial" is a farce, but you're too emotionally invested in defending your government to admit it. This is all moot, though - the entire concept is silly and will cost far, far more than it saves in any power bills.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:45 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
I was just northbound rte 288 in RVA. It felt so nice, I cracked the windows to enjoy the cool air. I noticed the highway was white concrete pavement. Niiiice.

Crossed the river and it became black asphalt. Damn. I put the windows up, turned on the A/C. There was a crying indian on the right shoulder, bemoaning Henrico's devastated polar bear population.

Sad.
:cry:
Bastards :!:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:24 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
I was just northbound rte 288 in RVA. It felt so nice, I cracked the windows to enjoy the cool air. I noticed the highway was white concrete pavement. Niiiice.

Crossed the river and it became black asphalt. Damn. I put the windows up, turned on the A/C. There was a crying indian on the right shoulder, bemoaning Henrico's devastated polar bear population.

Sad.
:cry:


Trial.....complete.

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