How much is too much?

[RiverguyVT]

I say enough already.
Some here disagree.
If you disagree, what is the limit you would suggest, or is there none?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/0 ... itary-aid/

[HokieHam]

Yeah…..enough.

[Major Kong]

I was in the not one damn penny camp...let the European pussies police their backyard.

[HokieHam]

I was in the not one damn penny camp...let the European pussies police their backyard.

Funny how someone was trying to get them to do that……

[RiverguyVT]

U.S. is sending another $625 million in weapons to Ukraine

[fatman]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

[RiverguyVT]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

[fatman]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

[RiverguyVT]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

[hokie80]

Over $168 billion to farm subsidies in 2022. Anyone “outraged” by that?

[HokieFanDC]

Over $168 billion to farm subsidies in 2022. Anyone “outraged” by that?

What? Farming doesn't even produce that much income each year. That would definitely be outrageous.

[HokieHam]

Over $168 billion to farm subsidies in 2022. Anyone “outraged” by that?

What? Farming doesn't even produce that much income each year. That would definitely be outrageous.

[hokie80]

Over $168 billion to farm subsidies in 2022. Anyone “outraged” by that?

What? Farming doesn't even produce that much income each year. That would definitely be outrageous.

“Funding for mandatory programs is estimated to be $168.1 billion, a $20 billion decrease from 2021 enacted levels. USDA is requesting a total of $198.1 billion in 2022.”

https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/file ... ummary.pdf

[RiverguyVT]

ahem... (whispers like Joe) "Not everything in the USDA budget is a 'farm subsidy'" (/PedoPete)

[HokieHam]

Over $168 billion to farm subsidies in 2022. Anyone “outraged” by that?

What? Farming doesn't even produce that much income each year. That would definitely be outrageous.

“Funding for mandatory programs is estimated to be $168.1 billion, a $20 billion decrease from 2021 enacted levels. USDA is requesting a total of $198.1 billion in 2022.”

https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/file ... ummary.pdf

Uh…..that is not all farm subsidies………..

Summary Findings
Overall, farm cash receipts are forecast to increase by $91.7 billion (21.2 percent) to $525.3 billion in 2022 in nominal dollars. Total crop receipts are forecast to increase by $36.4 billion (15.3 percent) from 2021 levels to $274.2 billion. Receipts for soybeans are forecast to increase by $14.9 billion (30.6 percent), corn by $11.9 billion (16.7 percent), and wheat by $4.0 billion (33.7 percent) in 2022, accounting for most of the forecasted growth in crop cash receipts. Total animal/animal product receipts are expected to increase by $55.3 billion (28.3 percent) to $251.1 billion, following increases in receipts for all commodity categories.
Direct Government farm payments are forecast at $13.0 billion in 2022, a $12.8 billion (49.7 percent) decrease from 2021 levels. Direct Government farm payments include Federal farm program payments paid directly to farmers and ranchers but exclude U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and insurance indemnity payments made by the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation. Much of this decline is because of lower supplemental and ad hoc disaster assistance to farmers and ranchers related to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic compared with 2021.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-e ... -forecast/

[fatman]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Again. We will continue to wisely equip the Ukrainians. If we keep investing at this pace, it won’t take too much longer.

I would then be happy to reduce the US DOD budget by 10X whatever we sent to Ukraine as the threat posed by russia will be massively reduced. Their entire military is being decimated.

[Mcl3 Hokie]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Again. We will continue to wisely equip the Ukrainians. If we keep investing at this pace, it won’t take too much longer.

I would then be happy to reduce the US DOD budget by 10X whatever we sent to Ukraine as the threat posed by russia will be massively reduced. Their entire military is being decimated.

Let the European’s fund this. Maybe that will bring them up to their 2% NATO bogey which they avoided for decades.

And you’re forgetting China which will be the next challenge.

[fatman]

Investments thus far have been very prudent. The longer we waited to stop appeasing Putin, the better. If we hadn't stopped him in Ukraine, he'd have pushed thru to Poland. The world's support of Ukraine has delayed China's invasion of Taiwan by a generation.

It is estimated that Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine has cost the global economy > $1T and it is creating massive inflation. Investing in Ukraine's defense brings the end of the war and Putinism much sooner. We should accelerate investments to include F-1X planes and getting them off the Russian weapons and onto NATO standard aviation.

I'll get back to you when we approach a limit where this is no longer a prudent investment, but I can tell you that we are nowhere close to that point.

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Again. We will continue to wisely equip the Ukrainians. If we keep investing at this pace, it won’t take too much longer.

I would then be happy to reduce the US DOD budget by 10X whatever we sent to Ukraine as the threat posed by russia will be massively reduced. Their entire military is being decimated.

Let the European’s fund this. Maybe that will bring them up to their 2% NATO bogey which they avoided for decades.

And you’re forgetting China which will be the next challenge.

I’m not forgetting China at all, read my post above. China was watching Russian->Ukraine and our support of Ukraine delayed China->Taiwan by decades.

Post Russian complete destruction in Ukraine there will be a reduction in threat faced by the US. Rather than Russian + China Threat 2021 levels, we will see the much much lower aggregate China + whatever is left of Russia 2023 levels. We should reduce DOD budget by $10 for every $1 we donate to Ukraine. I think that is perfectly sensible.

[Mcl3 Hokie]

Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Inflation- Leftist domestic policy has created much more inflation, here, than Putin's war.

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Again. We will continue to wisely equip the Ukrainians. If we keep investing at this pace, it won’t take too much longer.

I would then be happy to reduce the US DOD budget by 10X whatever we sent to Ukraine as the threat posed by russia will be massively reduced. Their entire military is being decimated.

Let the European’s fund this. Maybe that will bring them up to their 2% NATO bogey which they avoided for decades.

And you’re forgetting China which will be the next challenge.

I’m not forgetting China at all, read my post above. China was watching Russian->Ukraine and our support of Ukraine delayed China->Taiwan by decades.

Post Russian complete destruction in Ukraine there will be a reduction in threat faced by the US. Rather than Russian + China Threat 2021 levels, we will see the much much lower aggregate China + whatever is left of Russia 2023 levels. We should reduce DOD budget by $10 for every $1 we donate to Ukraine. I think that is perfectly sensible.

China laughs at Russia's capabilities. China has the technology, but more importantly, the economic power to succeed.

[fatman]

We are mostly lend/leasing military kit, most of it is not our very best stuff. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. We should invest aggressively now to end the war quickly versus dragging it out. Then we can implement $ caps on Russian oil and use that to pay reparations for Ukraine. US will likely participate in Ukraine’s rebuilding, along with EU and China. It’s the compassionate and smart thing to do.

If you are talking about trump’s massive deficit funded welfare programs followed by Biden’s much much smaller packages, I agree those were sources of inflation in the US. As were the ultra low interest rates from the Fed.

Inflation is spiking globally. In fact, US inflation is lower than most places. So it’s unreasonable to think that trump/Biden’s $ handouts are the exclusive cause of global inflation. Russia’s war has destroyed oil markets and food supplies for a big chunk of the world. Economists estimate it has already cause $1T+ in damages to the world economy. It seems odd that you’d ignore all those important data points and resort to partisan talking points that make no sense, but not terribly surprising.

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Again. We will continue to wisely equip the Ukrainians. If we keep investing at this pace, it won’t take too much longer.

I would then be happy to reduce the US DOD budget by 10X whatever we sent to Ukraine as the threat posed by russia will be massively reduced. Their entire military is being decimated.

Let the European’s fund this. Maybe that will bring them up to their 2% NATO bogey which they avoided for decades.

And you’re forgetting China which will be the next challenge.

I’m not forgetting China at all, read my post above. China was watching Russian->Ukraine and our support of Ukraine delayed China->Taiwan by decades.

Post Russian complete destruction in Ukraine there will be a reduction in threat faced by the US. Rather than Russian + China Threat 2021 levels, we will see the much much lower aggregate China + whatever is left of Russia 2023 levels. We should reduce DOD budget by $10 for every $1 we donate to Ukraine. I think that is perfectly sensible.

China laughs at Russia's capabilities. China has the technology, but more importantly, the economic power to succeed.

No debate. China > Russia. That isn’t the issue.

DOD needs to prepare to manage the aggregate threats of China, Russia, Iran, and many other jackasses.

Seeing Russia’s military absolutely destroyed = significant reduction in aggregate threats we need to prepare for. Therefore we should be able to shave quite a few $’s from DOD’s budget in response to the reduced threat environment.

Also, Russia is a major arms dealer. They are going to lose a ton of business to China, NATO, and turkey. The destruction of Russia’s military machine should be good for business for US MIC.

[fatman]

Again... Do you imagine sending gobs of our money to them indefinitely? Sounds like it.

Again. We will continue to wisely equip the Ukrainians. If we keep investing at this pace, it won’t take too much longer.

I would then be happy to reduce the US DOD budget by 10X whatever we sent to Ukraine as the threat posed by russia will be massively reduced. Their entire military is being decimated.

Let the European’s fund this. Maybe that will bring them up to their 2% NATO bogey which they avoided for decades.

And you’re forgetting China which will be the next challenge.

I’m not forgetting China at all, read my post above. China was watching Russian->Ukraine and our support of Ukraine delayed China->Taiwan by decades.

Post Russian complete destruction in Ukraine there will be a reduction in threat faced by the US. Rather than Russian + China Threat 2021 levels, we will see the much much lower aggregate China + whatever is left of Russia 2023 levels. We should reduce DOD budget by $10 for every $1 we donate to Ukraine. I think that is perfectly sensible.

China laughs at Russia's capabilities. China has the technology, but more importantly, the economic power to succeed.

No debate. China > Russia. That isn’t the issue.

DOD needs to prepare to manage the aggregate threats of China, Russia, Iran, and many other jackasses.

Seeing Russia’s military absolutely destroyed = significant reduction in aggregate threats we need to prepare for. Therefore we should be able to shave quite a few $’s from DOD’s budget in response to the reduced threat environment.

Also, Russia is a major arms dealer. They are going to lose a ton of business to China, NATO, and turkey. The destruction of Russia’s military machine should be good for business for US MIC.

Furthermore, Putin is Ukraine’s #1 arms supplier. Due to lend/lease investments from NATO countries, Ukraine is kicking Putin’s ass so hard that they are capturing massive amounts of Russian artillery, tanks, EW, etc, etc. so our investment in Ukraine not only degrades russian capabilities, but the ROI is even better because Ukraine also gains huge supplies of russian supplies left behind by the 10’s of 1000’s of Putin’s dead troops who don’t use them anymore.

LOL at trump calling Putin a genius so many times. The guy is leading the largest military failure in decades.

[RiverguyVT]

there is no "lend/lease"

and there is no such thing as "ROI" in this scenario

[HokieFanDC]

there is no "lend/lease"

and there is no such thing as "ROI" in this scenario

It's literally called "Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022."
The US has been involve in Lend-lease programs since 1941.

[RiverguyVT]

there is no "lend/lease"

and there is no such thing as "ROI" in this scenario

It's literally called "Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022."
The US has been involve in Lend-lease programs since 1941.

It was called "Inflation reduction act" too.

Lend- we won't get used surface-to-air missiles back.
Lease- we won't get paid for ANY of it.

You can call dogs born in an oven biscuits, but they're still puppies and not pieces of bread.

...carry on.

[HokieFanDC]

there is no "lend/lease"

and there is no such thing as "ROI" in this scenario

It's literally called "Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022."
The US has been involve in Lend-lease programs since 1941.

It was called "Inflation reduction act" too.

Lend- we won't get used surface-to-air missiles back.
Lease- we won't get paid for ANY of it.

You can call dogs born in an oven biscuits, but they're still puppies and not pieces of bread.

...carry on.

That's valid. But the main idea behind lend-lease was to help US allies being attacked by US enemies. It was a way of being involved in the war without declaring outright war. It was done because there were members of Congress who wanted to stay completely out of the war in 1941 and just wanted to let the European countries deal with it. The US assistance was critical in winning WWII.