Biden's take on the botched Afghan withdrawal -

[RiverguyVT]

It's Trump's fault!




How anyone can be supportive of these people is amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... ames-trump

[HokieHam]

The bucks stops with……DrumpF!………

[RiverguyVT]

I could imagine some here saying the same

[HokieHam]

I could imagine some here saying the same

Orwellian……..

[Mcl3 Hokie]

It's Trump's fault!




How anyone can be supportive of these people is amazing.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... ames-trump

To be fair, it’s only one of 3 excuses they have. Their playbook isn’t deep.

Blame Trump
Blame racism
Blame homophobia.

[fatman]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

[HokieFanDC]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

Your last point is certainly true.

And while I agree that the Afghan withdrawal was always going to be a PR nightmare for whoever was in charge, I think that Biden glommed it up at every turn.

IMO, this piece does a pretty good job of summing up the mess.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-fr ... ghanistan/

[RiverguyVT]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

[HokieHam]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

ROIman is a propagandist of first order!

[fatman]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

[HokieHam]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

Your first point is nothing but an assumption…..

[fatman]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

Your first point is nothing but an assumption…..

You are correct. I think it’s a very solid assumption. If trump stuck to the same timeline, the results would be within +/- 10%. Biden led the withdrawal, so he gets the blame for the messy exit and also credit for finally getting us the hell out of there.

The key point is the the blame should be focused on those who sent us in/kept doubling down on the failed strategy for 20 years.

I’m glad we are out and I look forward to similar exits from various spots all over the Middle East. Bring the boys/girls home and send the hardware to Ukraine.

[RiverguyVT]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

it would have been nearly identical - Purely baseless speculation. There is no such thing (I have no idea why you cling to fantasies such as this, and others) as a "Trump/Biden" withdrawal. It is hilarious. And no, if you can play fortune teller with imaginary hypotheticals, then so can I. A Trump withdrawal would have been so smoothly executed it would have startled Russia in to vacating the Crimean peninsula that Obama had given them, and would have ended China's saber-rattling against Taiwan.

See how that works?

Ukraine isn't a democracy in the sense that you imagine. It is, and has been, the most corrupt country in Europe though.

[HokieHam]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

Your first point is nothing but an assumption…..

You are correct. I think it’s a very solid assumption. If trump stuck to the same timeline, the results would be within +/- 10%. Biden led the withdrawal, so he gets the blame for the messy exit and also credit for finally getting us the hell out of there.

The key point is the the blame should be focused on those who sent us in/kept doubling down on the failed strategy for 20 years.

I’m glad we are out and I look forward to similar exits from various spots all over the Middle East. Bring the boys/girls home and send the hardware to Ukraine.

Again, you lead with assumption.

And yes, the ones who put us there and kept us there should be blamed for the disasters in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

[RiverguyVT]

send the hardware to Ukraine -

LOL.
Yeah, about that...
It is certainly going to Ukraine. But not like you think.

[fatman]

send the hardware to Ukraine -

LOL.
Yeah, about that...
It is certainly going to Ukraine. But not like you think.

I have no idea what you are LOL-ing about, but we’ve been sending military hardware into Ukraine via Poland for more than a year. I think we are all pretty familiar with that how extremely efficient the operation has run.

[fatman]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

it would have been nearly identical - Purely baseless speculation. There is no such thing (I have no idea why you cling to fantasies such as this, and others) as a "Trump/Biden" withdrawal. It is hilarious. And no, if you can play fortune teller with imaginary hypotheticals, then so can I. A Trump withdrawal would have been so smoothly executed it would have startled Russia in to vacating the Crimean peninsula that Obama had given them, and would have ended China's saber-rattling against Taiwan.

See how that works?

Ukraine isn't a democracy in the sense that you imagine. It is, and has been, the most corrupt country in Europe though.

It’s really not. When you announce that you have an extremely aggressive timetable for withdrawal, the locals all know you are leaving and that the taliban is in charge and they gain power while the short timers lose power. There is insufficient time for an orderly drawdown and removal of the billions and billions of military hardware.

You either have a slow/gradual/orderly drawdown
Or
You have a rapid drawdown that is fairly chaotic and there is no way to remove all the military hardware, etc.

There is no way to know for sure how a counter-factual would turn out, but it’s highly unlikely it would have been much different given the similarities in the approach favored by trump/Biden. It’s the same strategy.

[HokieJoe]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

Your first point is nothing but an assumption…..

Wishful thinking from a desperate Biden voter.

[RiverguyVT]

send the hardware to Ukraine -

LOL.
Yeah, about that...
It is certainly going to Ukraine. But not like you think.

I have no idea what you are LOL-ing about, but we’ve been sending military hardware into Ukraine via Poland for more than a year. I think we are all pretty familiar with that how extremely efficient the operation has run.

I'm laughing because the hardware that was walked away from due to the BIDEN withdrawal in Afghanistan will used against Ukraine. Sooner than later. So yeah.

As for this new notion of yours, that arming Ukraine has been "efficient"... no, it has not. There is zero accounting for aid given. It has been anything BUT efficient.

[HokieFanDC]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

it would have been nearly identical - Purely baseless speculation. There is no such thing (I have no idea why you cling to fantasies such as this, and others) as a "Trump/Biden" withdrawal. It is hilarious. And no, if you can play fortune teller with imaginary hypotheticals, then so can I. A Trump withdrawal would have been so smoothly executed it would have startled Russia in to vacating the Crimean peninsula that Obama had given them, and would have ended China's saber-rattling against Taiwan.

See how that works?

Ukraine isn't a democracy in the sense that you imagine. It is, and has been, the most corrupt country in Europe though.

True, there is no Biden/Trump withdrawal.

There was a Doha agreement with Trump and a withdrawal with Biden.
The Doha agreement was a steaming pile of excrement.
The withdrawal was a straming pilw of excrement.

They are both awful.

[fatman]

send the hardware to Ukraine -

LOL.
Yeah, about that...
It is certainly going to Ukraine. But not like you think.

I have no idea what you are LOL-ing about, but we’ve been sending military hardware into Ukraine via Poland for more than a year. I think we are all pretty familiar with that how extremely efficient the operation has run.

I'm laughing because the hardware that was walked away from due to the BIDEN withdrawal in Afghanistan will used against Ukraine. Sooner than later. So yeah.

As for this new notion of yours, that arming Ukraine has been "efficient"... no, it has not. There is zero accounting for aid given. It has been anything BUT efficient.

The notion that NATO’s support for Ukraine has been efficient is not new. It has also been widely acknowledged.

The US lend/lease is giving Ukraine ~5% of 1 year’s DOD budget. That’s a small investment.

The return on that investment is that 50% of Russians’ military(accumulated over decades) has been degraded/eliminated. They’ve suffered 200,000+ casualties and lost > 10,000 pieces of military equipment(tanks,fighters, helicopters). Due to sanctions, Putin had limited access to chips and other components required to reconstitute his military, it will takes an eternity for him to get back to 2021 levels.

Huge ROI!

You tell me of a more efficient use of DOD $ since the previous lend/lease(WW2).

[fatman]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

Your first point is nothing but an assumption…..

Wishful thinking from a desperate Biden voter.

I regretfully didn’t vote for Biden, but I wish had voted against traitor Trump. I’m embarrassed I didn’t vote in that election.

Trump set a strategy of a lightning fast withdrawal from Afghanistan. Biden stuck to those deadlines.

How do you envision things going differently under trump? It’s the same DOD implementing the strategy , same timeline, same understanding on the ground that the Americans are leaving very quickly. Why do you think it would have gone differently when both men had the same strategy for exit.

Biden was the POTUS, so he isn’t absolved from blame.

I just think the blame for bush and the other who sent all that equipment to Afghanistan deserves far more blame than trump/Biden for the withdrawal. We gifted billions of the “afghan government” which is basically the taliban.

[RiverguyVT]

And back to the OP

dRuMpF~!’s fault!

LMAO
So silly

[HokieJoe]

The problem isn’t the Biden/Trump exit. That was always going to be a cluster, so I don’t blame those two too much.

The issue is the neocon plan to spend trillions in Afghanistan and the notion that we’d nation build a liberal democracy there.

There was no "Biden/Trump" exit.
Good grief.

Your second point sounds a whole lot like Ukraine; but change a few words.

Trump set the wheels in motion with Afghan withdrawal on an aggressive timetable, it would have been nearly identical if he would have finishing it up or if Biden did. The Trump/Biden rapid withdrawal from Afghanistan was always gonna be a cluster...but still worth it.

It sounds 0% like Ukraine, The US sent tons of troops into Afghan/Iraq and spent Trillions. We are providing arms and intel to Ukraine. Ukraine is desperate to maintain their democracy, they are risking their lives for it. Despite what the neo-cons sold you guys, there was no uprising in Afghan/Iraq where the population was desperate to be a democracy. It is literally the opposite in every way. If anything Putin is more like George Bush with his half-baked Iraq invasion idea and lack of plan for Afghanistan.

Your first point is nothing but an assumption…..

Wishful thinking from a desperate Biden voter.

I regretfully didn’t vote for Biden, but I wish had voted against traitor Trump. I’m embarrassed I didn’t vote in that election.

Trump set a strategy of a lightning fast withdrawal from Afghanistan. Biden stuck to those deadlines.

How do you envision things going differently under trump? It’s the same DOD implementing the strategy , same timeline, same understanding on the ground that the Americans are leaving very quickly. Why do you think it would have gone differently when both men had the same strategy for exit.

Biden was the POTUS, so he isn’t absolved from blame.

I just think the blame for bush and the other who sent all that equipment to Afghanistan deserves far more blame than trump/Biden for the withdrawal. We gifted billions of the “afghan government” which is basically the taliban.

Buh, buh, buh...

[HokieHam]