Federal Spending Up 40 Percent Since 2019

[fatman]

Lend/Lease - Nothing is lent, nothing is leased. Nothing. We'll get nothing back, and will receive no payments.

Solid ROI - on the "feels". You cannot measure "return" so you cannot measure "ROI". It is stupid to keep parroting that term in this context. You're made to feel snuggly about the Ukraine war we've entered, so that's a good return- your snuggly feels.

Modest sums - there is nothing modest about the money being poured into and wasted in Ukraine.

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

Laughably stupid and glorious self-irony considering the reasons why we're dumping billions into Ukraine. What was the ROI on Afghanistan after your POS president pulled us out so dishonorably?

The ROI for going into Afghanistan and pouring trillions in over 20 years was awful. It was negative. 1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of $. No return.

Iraq was even worse. Horrible return on our investment of human lives and $$.

Lend/lease in Ukraine has produced the best ROI for DOD in decades. Zero American troops fighting, >1000% less spending than Iraq. In return, Russia’s military capabilities are reduced by more than 50%.

It’s very simple. Return on investment is the gain per unit of expenditure. In Ukraine that # is off the charts to the +.

In Iraq the ROI was horrific.
In Afghanistan, it was disastrous.
Defending the prince of Saudi Arabia….horrible ROI.
Defending oil fields in Iraq, Syria, etc….horrible ROI.

The trump/Biden plan to cut loses in Afghanistan was actually not a bad decision.

You're parroting bullsh!t again, fatmad, using terms you don't understand. ROI is measurable, so not applicable to a word you wrote.

I notice you ignored the dishonor in how we withdrew from Afghanistan. It was disgraceful and decidedly un-American. I also see you ignored the part about why we're in Yooookrayne to begin with.

Amazing how that works. Almost like they get their propaganda spoon fed by the MOT……like Mittens. See the other thread. DrumpF! could have pharted and these two would have screamed it was Russian Collusion……they were both Tru believers during all that BS. Now they’re defending XiDing in the other thread. F’ing hilarious.

Defending Biden from what charge? There is a massive amount of evidence that will lead to further indictments of traitor trump. He’s self incriminated on video and his friends are lining up to testify. I’m happy to consider the legal case against Biden if you can point me to an indictment and some evidence. Which of his friends is testifying against him?

[RiverguyVT]

First, just because you can’t measure the return doesn’t mean there isn’t return. Therefore ROI is applicable.. even if it is unmeasurable.

Second, I think you can measure return.. or at least approximate it. Loss of Russian assets, an American enemy, is measurable.

Third, lend/lease is a term that has been around since the aftermath of ww2. It applies even if it isn’t literally true.

doesn't mean there isn't return - No, there can be return, but not being able to measure it precludes use of the term "ROI". ROI is a silly nonsensical term to use in this context. The return is purely psychic. One can't measure "feelings" which is all this is.

Lend/Lease is a term going back to WWII. Correct. We lent, and we leased; we got stuff back and we received payment. What's happening in Ukraine is NOT lend lease. You can call it a green gorilla; doesn't make it one. What's happening in Ukraine is that our current office holder POTUS is completely compromised there. See how dangerous that is? Call it what it is; a very sketchy gift of hundreds of billions we'll never see again. Not lend/lease.

[RiverguyVT]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

[HokieHam]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

Laughably stupid and glorious self-irony considering the reasons why we're dumping billions into Ukraine. What was the ROI on Afghanistan after your POS president pulled us out so dishonorably?

The ROI for going into Afghanistan and pouring trillions in over 20 years was awful. It was negative. 1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of $. No return.

Iraq was even worse. Horrible return on our investment of human lives and $$.

Lend/lease in Ukraine has produced the best ROI for DOD in decades. Zero American troops fighting, >1000% less spending than Iraq. In return, Russia’s military capabilities are reduced by more than 50%.

It’s very simple. Return on investment is the gain per unit of expenditure. In Ukraine that # is off the charts to the +.

In Iraq the ROI was horrific.
In Afghanistan, it was disastrous.
Defending the prince of Saudi Arabia….horrible ROI.
Defending oil fields in Iraq, Syria, etc….horrible ROI.

The trump/Biden plan to cut loses in Afghanistan was actually not a bad decision.

You're parroting bullsh!t again, fatmad, using terms you don't understand. ROI is measurable, so not applicable to a word you wrote.

I notice you ignored the dishonor in how we withdrew from Afghanistan. It was disgraceful and decidedly un-American. I also see you ignored the part about why we're in Yooookrayne to begin with.

Amazing how that works. Almost like they get their propaganda spoon fed by the MOT……like Mittens. See the other thread. DrumpF! could have pharted and these two would have screamed it was Russian Collusion……they were both Tru believers during all that BS. Now they’re defending XiDing in the other thread. F’ing hilarious.

Defending Biden from what charge? There is a massive amount of evidence that will lead to further indictments of traitor trump. He’s self incriminated on video and his friends are lining up to testify. I’m happy to consider the legal case against Biden if you can point me to an indictment and some evidence. Which of his friends is testifying against him?

It’s not the charges, ROIman………

[fatman]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

I think you fail to understand the very basics of ROI. I'll try for the 8000th time.

Due, in part, to our very modest lend/lease program Russia has faced enormous documented losses of tanks, soldiers, pilots, depletion of missiles. They are having to beg for weapons from Iran and North Korea. It will take them a decade + to rebuild to the point of threatening Europe again. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html

Investment:
Zero american combat troops, just the ukrainianis + a very modest <5% of US DOD. It's a rounding error compared to Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and other investments from DOD that produce < ZERO ROI.

Return:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html
Quantifiable depletion of Russian troops, 1000s of tanks, huge numbers of missiles.
Russias defense industry has been obliterated, they are losing all their international customers who will need to turn to other suppliers. This will pay dividends for decades.

No, I've never been for George Bush nation-building and the idea that he and Chaney can force democracy on a country. I am for supporting liberal democracies fighting for their lives against genocidal commie invasion.

[HokieJoe]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

Fatmad was against war in Iraq/Afghanistan because of the fossil fuels. Also fatmad is for the Ukraine war, even though the war boils down to fossil fuels and nation building.

[fatman]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

Fatmad was against war in Iraq/Afghanistan because of the fossil fuels. Also fatmad is for the Ukraine war, even though the war boils down to fossil fuels and nation building.

Fatman was against the Iraq war because the investment (1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of dollars, damage of our reputation) did not provide return(ill conceived nation building fantasy).

Ukraine- investment(0 US troops, <5% DOD budget, mostly 20+ year old tech). Return: massive reduction in Putin’s military capability, stopping his genocide across Europe. Dissuading China from invading Taiwan.

In short, lend/lease in Ukraine provided massive ROI. Best investment in 50 years. Iraq: huge waste of lives/$s from US DOD.

[HokieJoe]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

Fatmad was against war in Iraq/Afghanistan because of the fossil fuels. Also fatmad is for the Ukraine war, even though the war boils down to fossil fuels and nation building.

Fatman was against the Iraq war because the investment (1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of dollars, damage of our reputation) did not provide return(ill conceived nation building fantasy).

Ukraine- investment(0 US troops, <5% DOD budget, mostly 20+ year old tech). Return: massive reduction in Putin’s military capability, stopping his genocide across Europe. Dissuading China from invading Taiwan.

In short, lend/lease in Ukraine provided massive ROI. Best investment in 50 years. Iraq: huge waste of lives/$s from US DOD.

fatmad is utterly ignorant of the reasons why we're in Yooookrayynnee. Moreover, fatmad is dumb enough to think that mAsSiVeLy degrading Russia's military is beneficial in the long term. Likewise, fatmad is dumb enough to believe that our action in Yookrayne is dissuading China's hegemony in SE Asia and Taiwan in particular. Wussia and Yookrayne are Germany's problem. Let those kraut F's deal with it.

[fatman]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

Fatmad was against war in Iraq/Afghanistan because of the fossil fuels. Also fatmad is for the Ukraine war, even though the war boils down to fossil fuels and nation building.

Fatman was against the Iraq war because the investment (1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of dollars, damage of our reputation) did not provide return(ill conceived nation building fantasy).

Ukraine- investment(0 US troops, <5% DOD budget, mostly 20+ year old tech). Return: massive reduction in Putin’s military capability, stopping his genocide across Europe. Dissuading China from invading Taiwan.

In short, lend/lease in Ukraine provided massive ROI. Best investment in 50 years. Iraq: huge waste of lives/$s from US DOD.

fatmad is utterly ignorant of the reasons why we're in Yooookrayynnee. Moreover, fatmad is dumb enough to think that mAsSiVeLy degrading Russia's military is beneficial in the long term. Likewise, fatmad is dumb enough to believe that our action in Yookrayne is dissuading China's hegemony in SE Asia and Taiwan in particular. Wussia and Yookrayne are Germany's problem. Let those kraut F's deal with it.

Your spelling skills are inline with your reasoning on these topics.

[HokieJoe]

Lend/Lease has been effectively used by the US for close to a decade. Without lend/lease from the powerful US, Russia would have been rolled by the nazis. Similarly without lend/lease, Putin would have achieved his stated goal and be right on Polands border.

There is a measure or ROI for lend/lease in Ukraine and it is magnificent. The US is dropping a modest 5% of DOD spend and degrading Eussian military potential by > 50%. Zero American combat deaths. Even Lindsey Graham said “best money we ever spent”

Yes. The sums are modest. 5% of DOD spend, mostly old stuff that was gonna be mothballed anyway.

Compare that with the Trillions we’ve wasted protecting the flow of oil in the Middle East or nation building in places idiots like Bush felt he could push into liberal democracies at gunpoint. All those lives and trillions are wasted. Ukraine is an actual liberal democracy, so it’s great to see us helping them.

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

Fatmad was against war in Iraq/Afghanistan because of the fossil fuels. Also fatmad is for the Ukraine war, even though the war boils down to fossil fuels and nation building.

Fatman was against the Iraq war because the investment (1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of dollars, damage of our reputation) did not provide return(ill conceived nation building fantasy).

Ukraine- investment(0 US troops, <5% DOD budget, mostly 20+ year old tech). Return: massive reduction in Putin’s military capability, stopping his genocide across Europe. Dissuading China from invading Taiwan.

In short, lend/lease in Ukraine provided massive ROI. Best investment in 50 years. Iraq: huge waste of lives/$s from US DOD.

fatmad is utterly ignorant of the reasons why we're in Yooookrayynnee. Moreover, fatmad is dumb enough to think that mAsSiVeLy degrading Russia's military is beneficial in the long term. Likewise, fatmad is dumb enough to believe that our action in Yookrayne is dissuading China's hegemony in SE Asia and Taiwan in particular. Wussia and Yookrayne are Germany's problem. Let those kraut F's deal with it.

Your spelling skills are inline with your reasoning on these topics.

My spelling skills mock your vacuous ignorance, fatmad.

[fatman]

No, Lend/Lease is a concept going back to the 1940s. Much more than a decade.

No, there is no ROI measure. Russia's military has not been degraded by 50% (where do you get this nonsense?)

Lindsey Graham- are hard leftists Lindsey fans all the sudden? LOL

Not Modest- there's nothing modest about $100,000,000,000

No, Ukraine is not a "liberal democracy". LOL. (and now you're for nation building?)

Fatmad was against war in Iraq/Afghanistan because of the fossil fuels. Also fatmad is for the Ukraine war, even though the war boils down to fossil fuels and nation building.

Fatman was against the Iraq war because the investment (1000s of dead Americans, Trillions of dollars, damage of our reputation) did not provide return(ill conceived nation building fantasy).

Ukraine- investment(0 US troops, <5% DOD budget, mostly 20+ year old tech). Return: massive reduction in Putin’s military capability, stopping his genocide across Europe. Dissuading China from invading Taiwan.

In short, lend/lease in Ukraine provided massive ROI. Best investment in 50 years. Iraq: huge waste of lives/$s from US DOD.

fatmad is utterly ignorant of the reasons why we're in Yooookrayynnee. Moreover, fatmad is dumb enough to think that mAsSiVeLy degrading Russia's military is beneficial in the long term. Likewise, fatmad is dumb enough to believe that our action in Yookrayne is dissuading China's hegemony in SE Asia and Taiwan in particular. Wussia and Yookrayne are Germany's problem. Let those kraut F's deal with it.

Your spelling skills are inline with your reasoning on these topics.

My spelling skills mock your vacuous ignorance, fatmad.

Mock away. You have a 0% accuracy rate with your comments. Why don’t you tell me why it’s a bad thing that genocidal Putin having a more capable military is a good thing. Let’s start there.

[UpstateSCHokie]

I can remember when I was a kid and my dad telling me that the national debt had just reached 1 trillion dollars. And to give me an idea has to how much money that was he said that if we stack 1 trillion dollar bills on top of each other, we could reach the moon. Turns out that wasn't exactly true, but $4 trillion would do it!

Now we're adding 1 trillion dollars to the debt per 100 days. I'm guessing this does not end well.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/01/the-us- ... -days.html

[HokieHam]

I can remember when I was a kid and my dad telling me that the national debt had just reached 1 trillion dollars. And to give me an idea has to how much money that was he said that if we stack 1 trillion dollar bills on top of each other, we could reach the moon. Turns out that wasn't exactly true, but $4 trillion would do it!

Now we're adding 1 trillion dollars to the debt per 100 days. I'm guessing this does not end well.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/01/the-us- ... -days.html

But….but……..DrumpF!!!!!