We know…. Political witch-hunt.

[hokie80]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic you MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

[hokie80]

I’m loving this.

I bet your neck veins are popping out in faux patriot rage.

Rotflmao

[HokieFanDC]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

[hokie80]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

Meh…. For the level of fraud, not only should this fine stay, it should be a criminal charge as well.

[HokieFanDC]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

Meh…. For the level of fraud, not only should this fine stay, it should be a criminal charge as well.

There's a reason criminal charges weren't filed. The entities impacted by the fraud were large banks, lenders, and other questionable businessmen like himself, and they didn't lose money. They may have made less than if he hadn't been fraudulent, but that's not a winning argument.

[HokieJoe]

Correct. A political witch hunt.

[HokieFanDC]

Correct. A political witch hunt.

He's 100% guilty of what he was convicted of.

[HokieJoe]

Correct. A political witch hunt.

He's 100% guilty of what he was convicted of.

BS.

No banks or lenders claimed fraud in the valuations. Who is the victim here? Who gets the money? Ahh yes, the pLaiNtiFf, is the State of New York, with the filing made by the office of Leticia James who campaigned on the basis of suing Trump. Like Bragg, Jean Carroll and Fani Willis, this was a politically motivated prosecution. 100% SLAPP litigation.

[HokieFanDC]

Correct. A political witch hunt.

He's 100% guilty of what he was convicted of.

BS.

No banks or lenders claimed fraud in the valuations. Who is the victim here? Who gets the money? Ahh yes, the pLaiNtiFf, is the State of New York, with the filing made by the office of Leticia James who campaigned on the basis of suing Trump. Like Bragg, Jean Carroll and Fani Willis, this was a politically motivated prosecution. 100% SLAPP litigation.

It's a civil suit, not a criminal suit. The lack of a victim is the reason why.
And it's not a SLAPP case, not even close. If they had even a miniscule chance of winning an anti-SLAPP case, his attorneys would have tried it. Trump is familiar with SLAPP litigation since he lost an anti-SLAPP case a few years ago, and won an anti-SLAPP case against Stormy Daniels.

[RiverguyVT]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

LMAO
? didn't you say here you were a CPA ?
? and in real estate?

[HokieFanDC]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

LMAO
? didn't you say here you were a CPA ?
? and in real estate?

You have a point to make? An actual question?

[RiverguyVT]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

LMAO
? didn't you say here you were a CPA ?
? and in real estate?

You have a point to make? An actual question?

Yeah.
You have no idea how the developer game works. At all.

To look at this (cough-cough) "trial" and say "Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions." here, and to mock the idea of there being 2 sets of laws many times elsewhere... is just profound.

I've stepped away from the life, semi-retired. I'm just a humble math teacher now. I do know that for my over 35 years of looking critically at (uncountable) developer financial statements from the perspective of selling an odd sort of "credit" that there is absolutely no case in NY and as you say "...lack of a victim..."

Nooooo. You don't "punch right" at all.
There's my actual point.
Holy cow.

[HokieJoe]

Correct. A political witch hunt.

He's 100% guilty of what he was convicted of.

BS.

No banks or lenders claimed fraud in the valuations. Who is the victim here? Who gets the money? Ahh yes, the pLaiNtiFf, is the State of New York, with the filing made by the office of Leticia James who campaigned on the basis of suing Trump. Like Bragg, Jean Carroll and Fani Willis, this was a politically motivated prosecution. 100% SLAPP litigation.

It's a civil suit, not a criminal suit. The lack of a victim is the reason why.
And it's not a SLAPP case, not even close. If they had even a miniscule chance of winning an anti-SLAPP case, his attorneys would have tried it. Trump is familiar with SLAPP litigation since he lost an anti-SLAPP case a few years ago, and won an anti-SLAPP case against Stormy Daniels.

In other words, Engeron was unshackled from legal code and prior court precedent’s. So he got to decide what was equitable for the State of NY. How convenient for democrats! You can indict a ham sandwich, so civil or criminal means little to nothing. The suit was filed in this manner for a specific reason. It would be longer and far more messy for the state of NY to conduct a jury trial.

This is absolutely a SLAPP case and the prosecution was motivated by discriminatory purpose. They’re trying to shut Trump up and get him out of the election. Just like Colorado, GA and Maine.

[HokieFanDC]

Bwahahahaha….

The con man and criminal gets his just rewards.

Y’all have been duped.

Sad and pathetic your MAGAtards are.

Now… tell me how he’s a victim.

https://news.yahoo.com/verdict-donald-t ... 49503.html

I'm not sure $355M is a just reward, sounds excessive. No doubt he's a criminal con man when it comes to his business, but that's a big-ass fine. Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions.
I'm guessing that Trump is going to hire "John Barron" to run his internal oversight team!

LMAO
? didn't you say here you were a CPA ?
? and in real estate?

You have a point to make? An actual question?

Yeah.
You have no idea how the developer game works. At all.

To look at this (cough-cough) "trial" and say "Totally agree with the oversight and business restrictions." here, and to mock the idea of there being 2 sets of laws many times elsewhere... is just profound.

I've stepped away from the life, semi-retired. I'm just a humble math teacher now. I do know that for my over 35 years of looking critically at (uncountable) developer financial statements from the perspective of selling an odd sort of "credit" that there is absolutely no case in NY and as you say "...lack of a victim..."

Nooooo. You don't "punch right" at all.
There's my actual point.
Holy cow.

Your point is that I punch right? What does Trump have to do with punching right?

Your argument is that because other developers did it, and weren't charged, then Trump isn't guilty? That's simply stupid.
The difference between you and is that I would want any person who has done what Trump has done, to be penalized.
You only care when someone you support, is penalized.

Companies manipulate their asset valuations all the time, for their benefit. Most of them form some reasonable basis for those valuations, or at least try to. And yes, developers and commercial/real estate companies are more liberal in their valuations.
But, Trump had 4 major problems that did him in. One, he made himself a celebrity. Two, he made himself a celebrity politician. Three, he has a very small and top heavy company, so it was easy to prove who was making the decisions to manipulate asset valuations. And four, the sheer volume and size of the misstatements was almost laughable.

As for knowing how the developer "game" works, I've worked for and with developers for about 8 years now. My previous job was with an upper mid-size LA developer. I quit because they were cooking the books, cross-collateralizing properties, creating lease agreements for vacant units, using loan proceeds for properties other than the ones the loans were assigned to, and using those to obtain additional loans. I quit because it was clear they were going to be bankrupt or in jail in the near future and I didn't want to be part of it. As it is, almost all of their properties are in foreclosurenow, they are being sued for multiple violations, and the company doesn't exist anymore other than as a bunch of LLCs that are going to be subject to lawsuits for the next several years.

Trump isn't much different than them, other than that he was able to play the shell game better and longer, and he didn't leave his major creditors hanging (and actually benefitted them) because he was able to continue to get more and more loans. It's a bit like a ponzi scheme, which works as long as more money comes in.

What Trump did/is doing, is totally unscrupulous. An appeal to the overall low character of major city developers isn't convincing. Would Trump have been charged if he hadn't been POTUS? Probably not. But he chose to put himself in the spotlight, and he created enemies where there weren't any. Most real estate developers take a lower profile and spend their time contributing/giving bribes to political campaigns and local officials in order to get favorable permitting decisions and expedited permitting and inspections. Trump decided to take a different path.
I don't feel sorry for him.

[RiverguyVT]

Wrrooooong.

Law means nothing. Just get that bAdOrAnGeMaN~! Your argument for his prosecution seems to be that "he made himself a celebrity politician". Last I checked, that isn't illegal.

No. My point is that I would think that a CPA, and especially a CPA connected to the RE game, would see through this farce for exactly what it is. Lawfare.

This will be appealed, and he should win on appeal. The lawsuit was flawed from inception, flawed even more in execution, and flawed in judgement.

Did "it", you say. The "it" is ...what, exactly? Valuation? It was up to me to decide whether the statements I was looking at were legit or not. A CPA audit would be VERY reliable. An internal statement (which is what this is all about, Trump's internal statements) would not be. If I'm analyzing an internal statement, that's on me to verify. EVERYONE knows that. No one lending a developer the millions and millions that someone like a Trump would borrow is unaware. There is no crime. No victim. It is a farce.

I wouldn't insinuate what you have.. that my clients were all unscrupulous and should have been charged as the bad orangeman was.

I only think the way I do because I "support" Trump, you say? I've made it clear here a million times I'm not a Trump fanboy. I am a fanboy of equally applied justice. What you accuse me of, is basically exactly what you are doing. Two sets of laws is okay as long as the bad orangeman suffers.

But yeah. Get the bad orangeman. So silly.

[HokieHam]

Wrrooooong.

Law means nothing. Just get that bAdOrAnGeMaN~! Your argument for his prosecution seems to be that "he made himself a celebrity politician". Last I checked, that isn't illegal.

No. My point is that I would think that a CPA, and especially a CPA connected to the RE game, would see through this farce for exactly what it is. Lawfare.

This will be appealed, and he should win on appeal. The lawsuit was flawed from inception, flawed even more in execution, and flawed in judgement.

Did "it", you say. The "it" is ...what, exactly? Valuation? It was up to me to decide whether the statements I was looking at were legit or not. A CPA audit would be VERY reliable. An internal statement (which is what this is all about, Trump's internal statements) would not be. If I'm analyzing an internal statement, that's on me to verify. EVERYONE knows that. No one lending a developer the millions and millions that someone like a Trump would borrow is unaware. There is no crime. No victim. It is a farce.

I wouldn't insinuate what you have.. that my clients were all unscrupulous and should have been charged as the bad orangeman was.

I only think the way I do because I "support" Trump, you say? I've made it clear here a million times I'm not a Trump fanboy. I am a fanboy of equally applied justice. What you accuse me of, is basically exactly what you are doing. Two sets of laws is okay as long as the bad orangeman suffers.

But yeah. Get the bad orangeman. So silly.

O’Leary is spot on. This is nothing but the left doing exactly what they claim DrumpF! will do…..and if they get away with it, look out.

[HokieFanDC]

Wrrooooong.

Law means nothing. Just get that bAdOrAnGeMaN~! Your argument for his prosecution seems to be that "he made himself a celebrity politician". Last I checked, that isn't illegal.

No. My point is that I would think that a CPA, and especially a CPA connected to the RE game, would see through this farce for exactly what it is. Lawfare.

This will be appealed, and he should win on appeal. The lawsuit was flawed from inception, flawed even more in execution, and flawed in judgement.

Did "it", you say. The "it" is ...what, exactly? Valuation? It was up to me to decide whether the statements I was looking at were legit or not. A CPA audit would be VERY reliable. An internal statement (which is what this is all about, Trump's internal statements) would not be. If I'm analyzing an internal statement, that's on me to verify. EVERYONE knows that. No one lending a developer the millions and millions that someone like a Trump would borrow is unaware. There is no crime. No victim. It is a farce.

I wouldn't insinuate what you have.. that my clients were all unscrupulous and should have been charged as the bad orangeman was.

I only think the way I do because I "support" Trump, you say? I've made it clear here a million times I'm not a Trump fanboy. I am a fanboy of equally applied justice. What you accuse me of, is basically exactly what you are doing. Two sets of laws is okay as long as the bad orangeman suffers.

But yeah. Get the bad orangeman. So silly.

OK, I misunderstood your comments about your experience with financial statements. I took that as meaning that you were aware of the shenanigans of many RE developers, and that you thought that lots of developers do exactly what Trump does, with no penalty.
There is some truth to that. First, though, Trump didn't simply negotiate asset valuations with lenders and other parties. In many cases, he simply lied about properties.
He counted mansions in his asset valuation, that had not been built. He included leases between the Trump organization and Ivanka Trump, and when he included the lease amounts on his financial statements, he recorded at 3x the actual lease amount. And there was a purchase option in the lease. He recorded the value of the apartment at 3x the option price in the lease. He valued an apartment in Trump Tower at $327M, because he recorded the square footage to be 30,000sf, when it was actually 11k square feet. He was able to get away with that b/c his controller, CFO, and family, did what Trump told them to do. When valuing a rent stabilized building, they used market rates to come up with their valuation. These are all unscrupulous actions from a horrible person.There are many other properties where he took similar liberties.
O'Leary is halfway right but he's ignoring the outright lies and fabrications from Trump.
And the second prong in this is that at the same time he was promoting those valuations in his financial statements to lenders and investors, he was issuing tax returns with valuations significantly less.

Even with that, there is not enough of a criminal case for the inflated/fake valuations that he gave to investors and lenders. Lenders have a duty to do their own due diligence. And if his tax returns are correct, or close to reality, there's no tax fraud case. So, they were left with a civil case. I've already said that the monetary penalty is ridiculous.
But, given the things we know about the false valuations and illegal payments to Trump Inc. employees, there is more than enough evidence to require them to have independent oversight of the company.

My argument about his celebrity politician status isn't an argument for his prosecution. I agree with you that his prosecution has a lot to do with lawfare. Letitia James has a history of prosecuting high profile people. She went after Cuomo. She went after the NRA. It's not about Trump. She's all about herself. She's the worst kind of AG. She's not an example of 2 sets of laws. She'll prosecute anyone, and has.
My point about his celebrity status is that someone who was doing what he did with his financial statements and valuations, should have the forethought to not bring a lot of attention to himself. But he can't control himself. His mouth is his enemy. Is that alone a reason to prosecute him? No. But he's done plenty that is worth investigating.

[HokieJoe]

The 'state' of NY just made the case that NY real estate is only worth the assessed value. Holy sh!t boys, time to start buying up half the state. It's a fire sale!

[HokieFanDC]

The 'state' of NY just made the case that NY real estate is only worth the assessed value. Holy sh!t boys, time to start buying up half the state. It's a fire sale!

Where do you come up with this nonsense Joe?

[RiverguyVT]

The 'state' of NY just made the case that NY real estate is only worth the assessed value. Holy sh!t boys, time to start buying up half the state. It's a fire sale!

Pretty much.

If the owner tries to sell it for more than that, it is fRaUd~!.

Secondary repercussion from this -state setting private property values. But yeah, let's worry about the Rs being fascists.

[HokieJoe]

The 'state' of NY just made the case that NY real estate is only worth the assessed value. Holy sh!t boys, time to start buying up half the state. It's a fire sale!

Pretty much.

If the owner tries to sell it for more than that, it is fRaUd~!.

Secondary repercussion from this -state setting private property values. But yeah, let's worry about the Rs being fascists.

Yep. 'Unintended consequences' are often the intended consequences where liars are concerned.

[HokieHam]

iT’s nOt poLiTIcAl!

[HokieJoe]

iT’s nOt poLiTIcAl!

So, NY's standard of real estate vALuaTioN is diFfEReNt if your last name is Duuuurrummphhh. Tangerine HiTleR should subpoena her for his appeal. These people are complete idiots.

[RiverguyVT]

Wrrooooong.

Law means nothing. Just get that bAdOrAnGeMaN~! Your argument for his prosecution seems to be that "he made himself a celebrity politician". Last I checked, that isn't illegal.

No. My point is that I would think that a CPA, and especially a CPA connected to the RE game, would see through this farce for exactly what it is. Lawfare.

This will be appealed, and he should win on appeal. The lawsuit was flawed from inception, flawed even more in execution, and flawed in judgement.

Did "it", you say. The "it" is ...what, exactly? Valuation? It was up to me to decide whether the statements I was looking at were legit or not. A CPA audit would be VERY reliable. An internal statement (which is what this is all about, Trump's internal statements) would not be. If I'm analyzing an internal statement, that's on me to verify. EVERYONE knows that. No one lending a developer the millions and millions that someone like a Trump would borrow is unaware. There is no crime. No victim. It is a farce.

I wouldn't insinuate what you have.. that my clients were all unscrupulous and should have been charged as the bad orangeman was.

I only think the way I do because I "support" Trump, you say? I've made it clear here a million times I'm not a Trump fanboy. I am a fanboy of equally applied justice. What you accuse me of, is basically exactly what you are doing. Two sets of laws is okay as long as the bad orangeman suffers.

But yeah. Get the bad orangeman. So silly.

OK, I misunderstood your comments about your experience with financial statements. I took that as meaning that you were aware of the shenanigans of many RE developers, and that you thought that lots of developers do exactly what Trump does, with no penalty.
There is some truth to that. First, though, Trump didn't simply negotiate asset valuations with lenders and other parties. In many cases, he simply lied about properties.
He counted mansions in his asset valuation, that had not been built. He included leases between the Trump organization and Ivanka Trump, and when he included the lease amounts on his financial statements, he recorded at 3x the actual lease amount. And there was a purchase option in the lease. He recorded the value of the apartment at 3x the option price in the lease. He valued an apartment in Trump Tower at $327M, because he recorded the square footage to be 30,000sf, when it was actually 11k square feet. He was able to get away with that b/c his controller, CFO, and family, did what Trump told them to do. When valuing a rent stabilized building, they used market rates to come up with their valuation. These are all unscrupulous actions from a horrible person.There are many other properties where he took similar liberties.
O'Leary is halfway right but he's ignoring the outright lies and fabrications from Trump.
And the second prong in this is that at the same time he was promoting those valuations in his financial statements to lenders and investors, he was issuing tax returns with valuations significantly less.

Even with that, there is not enough of a criminal case for the inflated/fake valuations that he gave to investors and lenders. Lenders have a duty to do their own due diligence. And if his tax returns are correct, or close to reality, there's no tax fraud case. So, they were left with a civil case. I've already said that the monetary penalty is ridiculous.
But, given the things we know about the false valuations and illegal payments to Trump Inc. employees, there is more than enough evidence to require them to have independent oversight of the company.

My argument about his celebrity politician status isn't an argument for his prosecution. I agree with you that his prosecution has a lot to do with lawfare. Letitia James has a history of prosecuting high profile people. She went after Cuomo. She went after the NRA. It's not about Trump. She's all about herself. She's the worst kind of AG. She's not an example of 2 sets of laws. She'll prosecute anyone, and has.
My point about his celebrity status is that someone who was doing what he did with his financial statements and valuations, should have the forethought to not bring a lot of attention to himself. But he can't control himself. His mouth is his enemy. Is that alone a reason to prosecute him? No. But he's done plenty that is worth investigating.

And somehow you continue to miss the big picture, and the way internal accounting in real estate works; all the while, and also advocating for "two sets of laws" since a bad orange man is involved.

There isn't "some truth" to developers using internal statements which value real estate holdings however the developer wants. It is whole truth. Internal. Internal statements. And if I, the creditor, look at internal statements, I take that in to account. Investors and lenders do their due diligence. And not a single one of them is complaining.

You put a lot of energy into the paragraph that his valuations were insanely high. Yeah? So? That begs the question of who was harmed. No one. NY's valuation of Mar-a-Lago is a mere fraction of its real worth. Does this mean Trump has a counter-suit vs. them?

You're emotional involved. I get it. Orange man is baaaad. That's no reason to throw the notion that we are a nation of laws, not men, out the window.. Obviously, you're okay with that and have made a multi-post defense of that position.

Ooo-rah.
Fascism at its finest.

[RiverguyVT]

iT’s nOt poLiTIcAl!

So, NY's standard of real estate vALuaTioN is diFfEReNt if your last name is Duuuurrummphhh. Tangerine HiTleR should subpoena her for his appeal. These people are complete idiots.

He is a bad orange man, so law doesn't matter a bit here.
I mean... we have posters here that agree with the verdict. LOL