VoiceOfReason wrote:3) Why should the heir of a wealthy person live in this country and never pay taxes? Without the estate tax we would need to tax working people more to compensate. Is that what you favor? Working people paying full freight?
The most ever collected from the inheritance tax was $36.7 billion. That's a rounding error with our current deficits. And it was projected in a 2012 congressional study that repealing it would only have a net revenue reduction by $7 billion/year. That's $20/person.
VoiceOfReason wrote:3) Why should the heir of a wealthy person live in this country and never pay taxes? Without the estate tax we would need to tax working people more to compensate. Is that what you favor? Working people paying full freight?
The most ever collected from the inheritance tax was $36.7 billion. That's a rounding error with our current deficits. And it was projected in a 2012 congressional study that repealing it would only have a net revenue reduction by $7 billion/year. That's $20/person.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
VoiceOfReason wrote:For the record, we are double taxed all the time. My salary is taxed and every dollar I get from the ATM is after tax money. When I buy my latte at Starbucks... or my gun rack... I pay sales tax. Double tax... earning and spending.
Sounds like a great reason for a consumption-based tax system, which I support over the current system.
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Yep. Fair Tax fans just love it when people make that argument.
I don't care if you're a Democrat or a Republican... if you refuse to consider alternatives to the two parties, you support the Status Quo and you are a major part of the problem.
VoiceOfReason wrote:For the record, we are double taxed all the time. My salary is taxed and every dollar I get from the ATM is after tax money. When I buy my latte at Starbucks... or my gun rack... I pay sales tax. Double tax... earning and spending.
Okay, fine, then dividends and inheritances are triple-taxed.
Let n be the normal number of times you pay taxes on a particular bit of money. You will pay taxes n + 1 times on dividends. You will pay taxes n + 1 times on inheritances. You will pay taxes n + 2 times when you are leaving the proceeds of dividends to your heirs.
VoiceOfReason wrote:3) Why should the heir of a wealthy person live in this country and never pay taxes? Without the estate tax we would need to tax working people more to compensate. Is that what you favor? Working people paying full freight?
The most ever collected from the inheritance tax was $36.7 billion. That's a rounding error with our current deficits. And it was projected in a 2012 congressional study that repealing it would only have a net revenue reduction by $7 billion/year. That's $20/person.
VoiceOfReason wrote:3) Why should the heir of a wealthy person live in this country and never pay taxes? Without the estate tax we would need to tax working people more to compensate. Is that what you favor? Working people paying full freight?
The most ever collected from the inheritance tax was $36.7 billion. That's a rounding error with our current deficits. And it was projected in a 2012 congressional study that repealing it would only have a net revenue reduction by $7 billion/year. That's $20/person.
The percentage is not the problem. It's the loopholes.
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
HvilleHokie wrote:The heir that is getting the money was never taxed on it. Thus it's not double taxation. Taxes are applied whenever money changes hands: employer to employee, estate to heir, customer to business.
Well, for one thing, the estate pays the estate tax, not the heir ... so the estate is being double taxed on the money.
But more than that, your salary and your sales are commercial transactions. Moving money within your family is not.
Commercial transactions should be taxed less aggressively than gifts/inheritance. The government should promote capitalism. That's why I say that income tax should go before inheritance tax.
So the author's complaint is that it's possible that he won't be double-taxed?
Why the hell should he be double-taxed on it?
And to your point, if conservatives get their way and the death tax is eliminated, then the whole thing with cost basis step up would presumably be done away with too. The whole purpose of that is so that you don't get double-taxed when someone dies - if the death tax goes away, then presumably this provision will be allowed to sunset.
?? It was an objective assessment of his likely tax burden on his 2billion dollar sale. Based on his assessment, it's a good chance the only tax he will have to pay on the sale will be via the estate tax, it at all.
and re the stepped up basis point, the end result would hurt the middle class because they don't pay estate taxes anyway.
Huh?
If the middle class pays no estate tax, than how are they "hurt" by this?
HvilleHokie wrote:Commercial transactions should be taxed less aggressively than gifts/inheritance. The government should promote capitalism. That's why I say that income tax should go before inheritance tax.
I may be crazy, but I always thought that the purpose of taxes should be to raise money to fund the government, not to promote or punish behaviors.
HvilleHokie wrote: Taxes are applied whenever money changes hands: employer to employee, estate to heir, customer to business.
Then tax gifts as well.
There is a gift tax.
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Not on all gifts. If taxes are applied whenever money changes hands, tax it every time it changes hand. Treat all Americans equally...
That would be an administrative nightmare.
The gift tax is part of the estate tax scheme. Like the high exemption for estates, there is a high trigger for gifts. It was around 1M I think when I was in law school if I remember correctly. Probably higher now.
The purpose of the gift tax is to prevent the evisceration of the estate tax.
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
So the author's complaint is that it's possible that he won't be double-taxed?
Why the hell should he be double-taxed on it?
And to your point, if conservatives get their way and the death tax is eliminated, then the whole thing with cost basis step up would presumably be done away with too. The whole purpose of that is so that you don't get double-taxed when someone dies - if the death tax goes away, then presumably this provision will be allowed to sunset.
?? It was an objective assessment of his likely tax burden on his 2billion dollar sale. Based on his assessment, it's a good chance the only tax he will have to pay on the sale will be via the estate tax, it at all.
and re the stepped up basis point, the end result would hurt the middle class because they don't pay estate taxes anyway.
Huh?
If the middle class pays no estate tax, than how are they "hurt" by this?
Nonsense ip. Pure nonsense.
I don't feel like explaining it to you.
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
HvilleHokie wrote: Taxes are applied whenever money changes hands: employer to employee, estate to heir, customer to business.
Then tax gifts as well.
There is a gift tax.
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Not on all gifts. If taxes are applied whenever money changes hands, tax it every time it changes hand. Treat all Americans equally...
That would be an administrative nightmare.
The gift tax is part of the estate tax scheme. Like the high exemption for estates, there is a high trigger for gifts. It was around 1M I think when I was in law school if I remember correctly. Probably higher now.
The purpose of the gift tax is to prevent the evisceration of the estate tax.
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I still don't get what claim the government has on anyone's wealth. The accumulation of that wealth has been taxed several times over already.
HvilleHokie wrote: Taxes are applied whenever money changes hands: employer to employee, estate to heir, customer to business.
Then tax gifts as well.
There is a gift tax.
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Not on all gifts. If taxes are applied whenever money changes hands, tax it every time it changes hand. Treat all Americans equally...
That would be an administrative nightmare.
The gift tax is part of the estate tax scheme. Like the high exemption for estates, there is a high trigger for gifts. It was around 1M I think when I was in law school if I remember correctly. Probably higher now.
The purpose of the gift tax is to prevent the evisceration of the estate tax.
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I still don't get what claim the government has on anyone's wealth. The accumulation of that wealth has been taxed several times over already.
What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.
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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
HvilleHokie wrote:Commercial transactions should be taxed less aggressively than gifts/inheritance. The government should promote capitalism. That's why I say that income tax should go before inheritance tax.
I may be crazy, but I always thought that the purpose of taxes should be to raise money to fund the government, not to promote or punish behaviors.
Of course it is, but to ignore the effects of the tax on the economy is foolish.
A lot of our tax code is designed to (sometimes very poorly) to promote commercial growth.
hokie80 wrote:I still don't get what claim the government has on anyone's wealth. The accumulation of that wealth has been taxed several times over already.
What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.
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Wealth <> income.
Again - from a philosophical stance, please tell me why YOU think accumulated wealth should be taxed.[/quote]
It shouldn't be. But when deciding what taxes to eliminate. Income should go before the estate.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.
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None. Abolish them.
But in order from most offensive to least offensive, I go (1) property tax, (2) investment tax, (3) tolls on previously existing roadways, (4) estate tax, (5) income tax, and (6) sales tax.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.
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None. Abolish them.
OK. I'm going to stop there and discuss tax policy with someone else.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
ip_law-hokie wrote:
What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.
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None. Abolish them.
OK. I'm going to stop there and discuss tax policy with someone else.
Ok then. You tell me what claim the government has on any tax.
The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
ip_law-hokie wrote:The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.
So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?
This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."
