So those of y'all who think the estate tax ("death tax")

[ip_law-hokie]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

[hokie80]

What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.


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None. Abolish them.

OK. I'm going to stop there and discuss tax policy with someone else.

Ok then. You tell me what claim the government has on any tax.

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

False. Again, how did you pass the bar again?

[BigDave]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

Taxes may be a reality. Government being the lord of all property and leasing it out to you or me at its sole pleasure is not reality.

[ip_law-hokie]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

Taxes may be a reality. Government being the lord of all property and leasing it out to you or me at its sole pleasure is not reality.

OK.

[ip_law-hokie]

What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

None. Abolish them.

OK. I'm going to stop there and discuss tax policy with someone else.

Ok then. You tell me what claim the government has on any tax.

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

False. Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

[hokie80]

You live in a wonderful world.[/quote]

You live in a fantasy land.

[SuwaneeTim820]

Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

hokie80 seems to have an inferiority complex toward you because you have a professional degree. That's... weird.

[ip_law-hokie]

Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

hokie80 seems to have an inferiority complex toward you because you have a professional degree. That's... weird.

Typical of that demographic.

[hokie80]

Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

hokie80 seems to have an inferiority complex toward you because you have a professional degree. That's... weird.

Typical of that demographic.

Nope. I respect lawyers. But only the bright ones.

[SuwaneeTim820]

Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

hokie80 seems to have an inferiority complex toward you because you have a professional degree. That's... weird.

Typical of that demographic.

Nope. I respect lawyers. But only the bright ones.

You appear to be a stubborn old mule who questions the success in life of anyone who disagrees with him politically.

[hokie80]

Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

hokie80 seems to have an inferiority complex toward you because you have a professional degree. That's... weird.

Typical of that demographic.

Nope. I respect lawyers. But only the bright ones.

You appear to be a stubborn old mule who questions the success in life of anyone who disagrees with him politically.

I have a lot of liberal friends who are successful.

They are bright and can formulate an argument however. Some are lawyers that do litigation. Generally the litigators tend to be brighter than the paper pusher types.

[VisorBoy]

What claim does the government have on any tax? Whatever your answer is, go with that.


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None. Abolish them.

OK. I'm going to stop there and discuss tax policy with someone else.

Ok then. You tell me what claim the government has on any tax.

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

False. Again, how did you pass the bar again?

"False"? It's not a fact, it's merely a philosophical viewpoint.

[SuwaneeTim820]

I have a lot of liberal friends who are successful.

What about Republicans? You know.... since you are an independent.

[ip_law-hokie]

Again, how did you pass the bar again?

You live in a wonderful world.

hokie80 seems to have an inferiority complex toward you because you have a professional degree. That's... weird.

Typical of that demographic.

Nope. I respect lawyers. But only the bright ones.

You appear to be a stubborn old mule who questions the success in life of anyone who disagrees with him politically.

Also typical of 80's demographic.

[RiverguyVT]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

sounds like someone missed the lecture on "rights"

[Hokie CPA]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

sounds like someone missed the lecture on "rights"

"Oh, I forgot. You were sick the day they taught law at law school!" --Lt. Daniel Kaffee

[ip_law-hokie]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

sounds like someone missed the lecture on "rights"

You guys can jerk each other off on natural law or what have you, but at the end of the day we do need to fund our government.

[Hokie CPA]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

sounds like someone missed the lecture on "rights"

You guys can jerk each other off on natural law or what have you, but at the end of the day we do need to fund our government.

We managed to fund our government for 140 years without income and estate taxes. Just sayin.

[ip_law-hokie]

The government lays the underlying foundation for which we can "own" any property. Whether it be an automobile or 1.8 billion dollars in cash.

So in other words, it all really belongs to the government to begin with and it's only by the grace of a merciful government that some portion of it is granted unto you?

This sounds like a religion. "Glory to Government in the highest, and on earth peace to those on whom Its favor rests."

Sounds like reality to me. I can only tell you to find a Libertarian paradise somewhere. Hope nothing catches on fire.

sounds like someone missed the lecture on "rights"

You guys can jerk each other off on natural law or what have you, but at the end of the day we do need to fund our government.

We managed to fund our government for 140 years without income and estate taxes. Just sayin.

Well, I guess you got me there. We can go back to 1830 and rock out.

[VoiceOfReason]

Taxes are applied whenever money changes hands: employer to employee, estate to heir, customer to business.

Then tax gifts as well.

There is a gift tax.

Yup! Anything over $14K annually is subject to a gift tax. So... you cannot beat the estate tax by "gifting" all of your assets to your kids the moment before you die

Gift tax: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Bus ... Gift-Taxes

[VoiceOfReason]

Sounds like a great reason for a consumption-based tax system, which I support over the current system.

An interesting concept. However a consumption tax would be "job killing" to use GOP scare tactic lingo, since it would artificially raise the price of US goods and services. Unless there was a corresponding foreign import tax... and that starts to get complicated and create loopholes.

Not that this would be any worse than the current system...

[VoiceOfReason]

3) Why should the heir of a wealthy person live in this country and never pay taxes? Without the estate tax we would need to tax working people more to compensate. Is that what you favor? Working people paying full freight?

The most ever collected from the inheritance tax was $36.7 billion. That's a rounding error with our current deficits. And it was projected in a 2012 congressional study that repealing it would only have a net revenue reduction by $7 billion/year. That's $20/person.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/charleskadl ... -dumb-tax/

So... you are saying that the estate tax is too low? Or applies to few people? Since it does not raise that much money?

I can assure you that my 2013 income taxes were much less than rounding error on our debt... but I think the IRS still expects me to pay them...

[BigDave]

Taxes are applied whenever money changes hands: employer to employee, estate to heir, customer to business.

Then tax gifts as well.

There is a gift tax.

Yup! Anything over $14K annually is subject to a gift tax. So... you cannot beat the estate tax by "gifting" all of your assets to your kids the moment before you die

Gift tax: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Bus ... Gift-Taxes

Well, there is also a lifetime exclusion in addition to the annual one ... you can exclude $5 million over a lifetime and whatever you exclude counts towards the inheritance tax exclusion. So for most of us, you don't have to worry about hitting it. (So if you give your kid a $30K car as a graduation present, then you are literally giving him part of his inheritance - you exclude 14K of it as part of the annual exclusion and the rest as part of the lifetime exclusion.)

But there has to be a gift tax as long as there is an income tax - otherwise there would be rampant income tax fraud. You would say that your nanny is a close family friend and you are giving her a gift of $whatever each month, so she doesn't have to pay income taxes on it.

[VoiceOfReason]

Commercial transactions should be taxed less aggressively than gifts/inheritance. The government should promote capitalism. That's why I say that income tax should go before inheritance tax.

I may be crazy, but I always thought that the purpose of taxes should be to raise money to fund the government, not to promote or punish behaviors.

You are not crazy. We progressives agree with you there. But when you start moving from goals to implementation... we prefer that you do not begin by negatively impacting the middle class and the poorest among us first. Some of us learned that in church

[Hokie CPA]

Well, I guess you got me there. We can go back to 1830 and rock out.

I am only pointing out how cumbersome and expensive our government has become over the last 100 years. It shouldn't need anywhere near as much as it takes. It needs to be cut back, across the board. Cut everything from the military to personal and corporate subsidies.