Your argument seems be that we don't follow a lot of things in the bible, so maybe it's ok that we ignore the stuff condemning gay marriage? Isn't that a path towards not following any of it? What's next?
As for the PCUSA, Anglican Church, etc. - I think that's just politics over principle.
chuckd4vt wrote:Forgive me for not reading through this thread, but I wish to address a couple of claims. For one thing, this is not about getting butts in seats for these denominational bodies. The PCUSA, like the Anglican Church before it, and soon to be the UMC are all struggling with this issue and are all losing members over the inclusion of homosexuals. Again, this isn't about getting butts into seats. From a numbers and dollars stand point, the statue quo would have been much more beneficial.
Now theologically, I feel this does come down to a matter of Scriptural authority and interpretation. How do we use the Bible and how is it meant to be used by the followers of Jesus Christ today? Homosexuality is only mentioned a half dozen times in the Bible and is only explicitly condemned a handful of times. And no, we do not have any record of Jesus addressing it there.
A couple of these condemnations occur in the Holiness Code of Leviticus, which we Christians today do not adhere to. There are aspects that are adhered to I suppose, but very few Christians even attempt to follow the set of instructions found there. We've essentially determined, for centuries I might add, that what is found there was intended to for a particular group of people at a particular time in their history. Tattoos are banned, eating shell fish is banned, wearing blended clothing is banned, certain haircuts are banned, etc...
And the remaining condemnations can be found in the letters of Paul. In Romans 1, I Corinthians 6, and 1 Timothy Paul includes homosexuality in lists of sinful behaviors. It's pretty dang clear that Paul opposed the behavior. So what does that mean for us? He was inspired by God when authoring those letters (though it's quite possible he didn't author 1 Timothy), so should we live out absolutely everything he suggests there? I'm not so incredibly sure.
In those same letters Paul tells us that women shouldn't even speak in Church. It's right there. And regarding that issue, most of us have agreed that women can and should have a vioce in God's Church. We've essentially found that what Paul wrote pertained to his particular time and place and does not represent God's Will for us here in the 21st Century. And generally, Paul was fairly progressive, but women having any voice (or slaves for that matter) in his context was simply not imaginable.
Thus, we find ourselves here right now dealing with this issue. What I know is that I've witnessed first hand homosexuals who lead fruitful godly lives. And they do great things for God's Church. Some live out their faith better than I do, which isn't saying much. We know where Paul stood, but is it truly God's Will that these persons not be fully included and accepted in His Church?
There's things in the Bible, in addition to the Holiness Code, that I do not feel represent God's Will for how we should live today. Just read it. What about where the Israelites are told to go into Jericho and kill every man, woman, child and animal? Was that God's Will, or was that some of the will of the man who wrote that text coming through? is that story some sort of combination of both. The Bible is both divine and human we believe. Other than the Ten Commandments, it's pretty much the words of men who were "inspired."
I do believe it's the primary place we come to know Jesus, who embodied the Word of God, but is it always leading us toward to the ways of Jesus. That passage from Joshua doesn't sound too consistent with what Jesus taught and stood for. Some of the stuff in some of Paul's letters doesn't either.
Simply, we're all picking and chosing here. Jesus and Peter and Paul flat out disregarded and contradicted some of the things found in the OT. Jesus issued a few "you've heard it said, but..." quotes that flat out challenged the Scriptures of His day. And for centuries Christians have continued to do so. Our Catholic brothers and sisters seem to feel that the Traditions of the Church are on equal footing with the Scriptures when developing their doctrines, many of which are still our doctrines. Anyhow, I personally worship Jesus and I feel the Bible is the primary place I come to know Him and His will for my life. I do not worship the Bible, some of us delve into a sort of bibliolatry I believe by worshipping that book as much as or even more so than God Himself. It's just a lot more complicated I feel than some like to believe this issue is.