Imagine if the thousands of people going to NFL

[Homebrew]

Game today, actually went to church instead of tailgating all morning, then going to the game.

I was sitting on my stoop before church listening to the church bells and noticing far more people dressed in Ravens jerseys than dressed in their Sunday best.

[USN_Hokie]

Game today, actually went to church instead of tailgating all morning, then going to the game.

I was sitting on my stoop before church listening to the church bells and noticing far more people dressed in Ravens jerseys than dressed in their Sunday best.

My wife was telling me that one church near us let's people wear jerseys on game day....Doubt that explains the divide, though.

[Major Kong]

Game today, actually went to church instead of tailgating all morning, then going to the game.

I was sitting on my stoop before church listening to the church bells and noticing far more people dressed in Ravens jerseys than dressed in their Sunday best.

In my "'hood" some of my neighbors are 7 Day Adventist...I rekkin' they think the same of my Hokie jersey on Saturday's.

[patriothokie]

.

[HooFighter]

I pray these people find their way before it is too late. God's judgement is coming soon.

2/10. Too obvious.

[Major Kong]

2/10. Too obvious.

You're way to generous.

[BigDave]

I pray these people find their way before it is too late. God's judgement is coming soon.

Judgment.

[BigDave]

I pray these people find their way before it is too late. God's judgement is coming soon.

2/10. Too obvious.

I don't know if he/she is serious or not. But what about this post (as opposed to the obnoxious one in the Ted Cruz thread) would make you think he/she isn't serious?

I (and most Evangelical Christians) believe we are more likely than not living in the end times. I believe that God's judgment is coming soon. Now, obviously, just going to a football game doesn't make you lost and, in fact, there are plenty of saved people at football games.

[cwtcr hokie]

how soon is "soon", I still have hawt women to meet

Game today, actually went to church instead of tailgating all morning, then going to the game.

I was sitting on my stoop before church listening to the church bells and noticing far more people dressed in Ravens jerseys than dressed in their Sunday best.

I pray these people find their way before it is too late. God's judgement is coming soon.

[VisorBoy]

Game today, actually went to church instead of tailgating all morning, then going to the game.

I was sitting on my stoop before church listening to the church bells and noticing far more people dressed in Ravens jerseys than dressed in their Sunday best.

Maybe they go to Church on Saturday or Sunday evenings?

[patriothokie]

.

[nc87]

Imagine an economy with less people spending money, and a society with more brainwashed people. That's what you'd get with more church and less tailgating.

Thankfully many, many, many people choose football over cult meetings.

[BigDave]

Imagine an economy with less people spending money, and a society with more brainwashed people. That's what you'd get with more church and less tailgating.

Thankfully many, many, many people choose football over cult meetings.

To whom, exactly, are you giving thanks?

By the way, it is generally recognized that the economic impact of NFL football is not all that spectacular. Most fans of NFL teams are local and so the $100 or whatever they are spending on tickets, parking, beer, etc, they would have otherwise spent on something else in the community at some point in time.

Hosting a championship or bowl game event where substantially everyone is traveling from out of town or even something like a Virginia Tech game where probably half of the fans are traveling from out of town is obviously a boon to the local economy ... but regular season NFL games are mostly just displacing money that was already in your community to start with. In fact, rather than that money being spent on local things, it's going to some wealthy owner's bank account in the Cayman Islands.

While it looks great on paper to say we collected $1 million in tax revenue from people spending $10 million at a football game, what you don't see is that they would have spent that $10 million on something else if football didn't exist and you would have collected the same amount of money ... it just would have been somewhere else.

[VisorBoy]

Imagine an economy with less people spending money, and a society with more brainwashed people. That's what you'd get with more church and less tailgating.

Thankfully many, many, many people choose football over cult meetings.

To whom, exactly, are you giving thanks?

By the way, it is generally recognized that the economic impact of NFL football is not all that spectacular. Most fans of NFL teams are local and so the $100 or whatever they are spending on tickets, parking, beer, etc, they would have otherwise spent on something else in the community at some point in time.

Hosting a championship or bowl game event where substantially everyone is traveling from out of town or even something like a Virginia Tech game where probably half of the fans are traveling from out of town is obviously a boon to the local economy ... but regular season NFL games are mostly just displacing money that was already in your community to start with. In fact, rather than that money being spent on local things, it's going to some wealthy owner's bank account in the Cayman Islands.

While it looks great on paper to say we collected $1 million in tax revenue from people spending $10 million at a football game, what you don't see is that they would have spent that $10 million on something else if football didn't exist and you would have collected the same amount of money ... it just would have been somewhere else.

You can say that about almost anything that's bought locally. And how do you know that people would necessarily replace the hundreds/thousands spent on season tickets with other leisure in their area? Maybe they'd take a vacation instead (or save the $$$).

[nc87]

Imagine an economy with less people spending money, and a society with more brainwashed people. That's what you'd get with more church and less tailgating.

Thankfully many, many, many people choose football over cult meetings.

To whom, exactly, are you giving thanks?

By the way, it is generally recognized that the economic impact of NFL football is not all that spectacular. Most fans of NFL teams are local and so the $100 or whatever they are spending on tickets, parking, beer, etc, they would have otherwise spent on something else in the community at some point in time.

Hosting a championship or bowl game event where substantially everyone is traveling from out of town or even something like a Virginia Tech game where probably half of the fans are traveling from out of town is obviously a boon to the local economy ... but regular season NFL games are mostly just displacing money that was already in your community to start with. In fact, rather than that money being spent on local things, it's going to some wealthy owner's bank account in the Cayman Islands.

While it looks great on paper to say we collected $1 million in tax revenue from people spending $10 million at a football game, what you don't see is that they would have spent that $10 million on something else if football didn't exist and you would have collected the same amount of money ... it just would have been somewhere else.

This is true Dave. However, having recently moved to an NFL city (Charlotte), I can personally attest to the fact that the impact goes FAR beyond the tickets and the money spent on concessions at the games. Thousands of people go to tailgates outside the stadium and don't purchase tickets. Thousands more pack bars and restaurants to watch their teams play. And many more than that host game watching parties. No matter which option you choose, that is money being spent locally- at bars, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. Not to mention the local stores that sell merchandise, the taxi drivers who transfer people to and from games, you get the point, we could go on and on.

Church, on the other hand, does absolutely nothing to help the economy- in fact they drain resources and contribute zero. Nothing makes me more angry than seeing my tax dollars go to traffic cops directing traffic in and out of mega churches

[BigDave]

You can say that about almost anything that's bought locally. And how do you know that people would necessarily replace the hundreds/thousands spent on season tickets with other leisure in their area? Maybe they'd take a vacation instead (or save the $$$).

Yes, but can you think about the key difference?

Your favorite NFL city spent hundreds of millions of dollars to build the stadium or in tax concessions that they give to the team. So it spent a whole lot of money to get $10 in taxes on the $100 I spend there.

On the other hand, the city spent nothing (beyond the basic public services we all get like roads and police) to get the $10 in taxes on the $100 I might spend at a restaurant or something else local.

Really, I'm not arguing against the existence of football ... I'm just arguing (1) against the subsidy of it and (2) against Beached's claim that you are a better citizen for spending your $100 at a football game than you would be if you went to a church and then spent your $100 going out to eat after church.

[USN_Hokie]

Imagine an economy with less people spending money, and a society with more brainwashed people. That's what you'd get with more church and less tailgating.

Thankfully many, many, many people choose football over cult meetings.

Yes, because the Protestant work ethic was such a failure....

[VisorBoy]

You can say that about almost anything that's bought locally. And how do you know that people would necessarily replace the hundreds/thousands spent on season tickets with other leisure in their area? Maybe they'd take a vacation instead (or save the $$$).

Yes, but can you think about the key difference?

Your favorite NFL city spent hundreds of millions of dollars to build the stadium or in tax concessions that they give to the team. So it spent a whole lot of money to get $10 in taxes on the $100 I spend there.

On the other hand, the city spent nothing (beyond the basic public services we all get like roads and police) to get the $10 in taxes on the $100 I might spend at a restaurant or something else local.

Really, I'm not arguing against the existence of football ... I'm just arguing (1) against the subsidy of it and (2) against Beached's claim that you are a better citizen for spending your $100 at a football game than you would be if you went to a church and then spent your $100 going out to eat after church.

Re: 2, you're still assuming the same amount of money is being spent no matter what. That's what I don't think we could prove.

[nc87]

Really, I'm not arguing against the existence of football ... I'm just arguing (1) against the subsidy of it and (2) against Beached's claim that you are a better citizen for spending your $100 at a football game than you would be if you went to a church and then spent your $100 going out to eat after church.

Cmon Dave, no where in the original post or my response can you find a single mention about spending money going out to eat after church. People who go to football games can spend money going out to eat after the game, too. As can people who don't go to church or football games. You can try to argue usefulness of church, but spending money on a post-church lunch doesn't really qualify

[VisorBoy]

Really, I'm not arguing against the existence of football ... I'm just arguing (1) against the subsidy of it and (2) against Beached's claim that you are a better citizen for spending your $100 at a football game than you would be if you went to a church and then spent your $100 going out to eat after church.

Cmon Dave, no where in the original post or my response can you find a single mention about spending money going out to eat after church. People who go to football games can spend money going out to eat after the game, too. As can people who don't go to church or football games. You can try to argue usefulness of church, but spending money on a post-church lunch doesn't really qualify

Churches do contribute to the local economy. They (a) build, (b) employ people and (c) spend money.

[nc87]

Visor, you know I'm not anything close to religious, so this is a legitimate question: What do churches build, how many do they employ (and what sort of jobs?), and what do they spend $$$ on and how much?


I'm asking about ways they stimulate the economy- not the charitable actions they may or may not engage in.

ETA: I have a hard time believing churches' economic impact even comes close to that of the NFL. But I know little to nothing about church(es) so that is admittedly an assumption

[BigDave]

This is true Dave. However, having recently moved to an NFL city (Charlotte), I can personally attest to the fact that the impact goes FAR beyond the tickets and the money spent on concessions at the games. Thousands of people go to tailgates outside the stadium and don't purchase tickets. Thousands more pack bars and restaurants to watch their teams play. And many more than that host game watching parties. No matter which option you choose, that is money being spent locally- at bars, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. Not to mention the local stores that sell merchandise, the taxi drivers who transfer people to and from games, you get the point, we could go on and on.

But you're assuming that this money otherwise would have sat underneath people's mattresses.

I spend probably $2000/year going to Tech games. If I didn't spend that $2000/year going to Tech games, don't you think I would have done something else with it?

The real net economic impact is only that money that comes in from out of town. For Virginia Tech, that's a lot. For Charlotte, I don't know, but I imagine it's a more low-to-moderate amount. For some places (like, say, Baltimore or Philly), it's very little.

On top of that, the net economic impact is only that money that comes out of town that you wouldn't have gotten from something else. Suppose Charlotte didn't have football. They are still a great city to hold conventions. Convention-goers are almost entirely out-of-towners. If you didn't have an NFL game, you could have bid to have a convention that weekend.

On top of that, the net economic impact is only that money that you don't lose by virtue of profits going out of the area. I have no idea what the breakdown is, but if a ticket is $100 and half of that goes to the team's owners (I'm making up a number), and a Charlotte citizen who goes to the game otherwise would have spent that $100 on something local, then your net economic impact is hurt by them spending it at the game.

Church, on the other hand, does absolutely nothing to help the economy- in fact they drain resources and contribute zero. Nothing makes me more angry than seeing my tax dollars go to traffic cops directing traffic in and out of mega churches

This is obviously trolling and I will not dignify it with a response.

[VisorBoy]

Visor, you know I'm not anything close to religious, so this is a legitimate question: What do churches build, how many do they employ (and what sort of jobs?), and what do they spend $$$ on and how much?


I'm asking about ways they stimulate the economy- not the charitable actions they may or may not engage in.

Churches build and expand their buildings as they grow - from rectories to schools to the Church itself. Whether they have a school or not, they still may employ pastors (if Protestant), deacons, and lay persons. They also charge nominal fees for use of their facilities (weddings for example).

[BigDave]

Visor, you know I'm not anything close to religious, so this is a legitimate question: What do churches build, how many do they employ (and what sort of jobs?), and what do they spend $$$ on and how much?


I'm asking about ways they stimulate the economy- not the charitable actions they may or may not engage in.

ETA: I have a hard time believing churches' economic impact even comes close to that of the NFL. But I know little to nothing about church(es) so that is admittedly an assumption

The city spent hundreds of millions of dollars to subsidize the NFL team. It spent $0 to subsidize the church. The church doesn't owe the city anything.

Churches, of course, have a negligible net economic impact for the most part because their funding and spending are mostly local. There aren't very many people aren't coming from out of town to visit a church (the vast majority in a congregation is local) and so there's no net economic impact.

[nc87]

Church, on the other hand, does absolutely nothing to help the economy- in fact they drain resources and contribute zero. Nothing makes me more angry than seeing my tax dollars go to traffic cops directing traffic in and out of mega churches

This is obviously trolling and I will not dignify it with a response.

How is that trolling? How about explaining how church does help the economy? And I am genuinely angry when I see a traffic cop at a mega church directing traffic- the church does not pay taxes and IMO does not deserve free traffic cops