If you are low income...it pays better NOT to work

[HokieDan95]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-0 ... mographics

[CFB Apologist]

I thought Obama was personally "adding" 250,000 jobs per month?? How can anyone be out of work nowadays?

[nc87]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

[RiverguyVT]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

[RiverguyVT]

I thought Obama was personally "adding" 250,000 jobs per month?? How can anyone be out of work nowadays?

Obamacare is a wrecking ball

[ip_law-hokie]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

[oaktonhokie]

Do you want government to set all wages? If government should set the minimum wage, why not the maximum wage?

Why not all wages in between?

How about prices...? Why shouldn't the government protect us from greedy business owners, the bourgeoisie?

How about a cap on profits, the government should not allow people to get rich on the aching backs of workers, right?

And um, what's a "living wage'?" Should the box boy at kmart get $35,000 per year? A sixteen year old working a summer job in high school.... needs a living wage?

Government knows best. Does government know everything?

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

[RiverguyVT]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

Is that what he's getting at? I'm still stuck on his taxes/wages dichotomy... not to mention his taxes/'fund' unemployment supposition.

[ip_law-hokie]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

Is that what he's getting at? I'm still stuck on his taxes/wages dichotomy... not to mention his taxes/'fund' unemployment supposition.

unemployment is probably not a good example. but given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

[cwtcr hokie]

I would doubt a large percentage are, a lot of those workers are most likely using that as a second income or the spouse working while the other spouse is also working. But yes if you are that unskilled or have that many employment issues then yes it will be hard to get the car and the big screen tv on lower wages. But if you raise everyones wage way up for totally non-skilled work then those people are still screwed as that car or tv now costs three times as much, and your groceries cost three times as much as if you increase by 100% the wage for workers at the lowest level then those employers have zero choice but to jack up the sales prices on its products as the biggest cost factor for them is probably labor and you can't lose money forever (unless you are the federal gov.)

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

[BigDave]

unemployment is probably not a good example. but given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

Why isn't it an argument for stopping public assistance?

When you subsidize something, you encourage it. If you subsidize low-paying jobs and you tell someone making $20K that you're going to give them as much take home as they would get if they made $40K, why in the world would they ever want to take steps to improve themselves?

[cwtcr hokie]

Billions in profit? what are their sales? How does a company expand if it does not make a profit and how is the gov. going to be funded if they are not making billions in profits?

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

Is that what he's getting at? I'm still stuck on his taxes/wages dichotomy... not to mention his taxes/'fund' unemployment supposition.

unemployment is probably not a good example. but given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

[ip_law-hokie]

unemployment is probably not a good example. but given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

Why isn't it an argument for stopping public assistance?

When you subsidize something, you encourage it. If you subsidize low-paying jobs and you tell someone making $20K that you're going to give them as much take home as they would get if they made $40K, why in the world would they ever want to take steps to improve themselves?

That is also an argument.

[USN_Hokie]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

Why not just raise minimum wage to $200/hr....wouldn't everyone be able to live great then?

[USN_Hokie]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

That's a problem with public assistance, then.....not wages.

[Homebrew]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

Majority of Walmart workers are part-time. So, their pay is immaterial because a living wage is not applicable to PT work.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[USN_Hokie]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

Is that what he's getting at? I'm still stuck on his taxes/wages dichotomy... not to mention his taxes/'fund' unemployment supposition.

unemployment is probably not a good example. but given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

Wal-Mart Stores Profit Margin Quarterly: 3.48% for July 31, 2013

[Hokie5150]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

Corporations, like any consumer, prefer to pay that something is worth. Not all jobs are worth a "living wage". Should one expect to be able to maintain a family of four doing nothing but sweeping the floor?

[HokieHam]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

You are correct. I forget the percentage, but a large portion of their employees are on some type of public assistance....and Walmart lobbies for more of it....

[oaktonhokie]

Compassionate corporations should pay what their workers need. Not what they're worth.

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

Corporations, like any consumer, prefer to pay that something is worth. Not all jobs are worth a "living wage". Should one expect to be able to maintain a family of four doing nothing but sweeping the floor?

[Marine Hokie]

...given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

Walmart agrees with you. It seems counterintuitive, but historically large and entrenched businesses favor costly regulations that they can absorb and drive their smaller competitors out of business. Just like Amazon is the driving force behind the internet sales tax federal legislation, Walmart is lobbying in favor of raising the minimum wage, knowing that smaller businesses won't be able to keep up.

Let's say the minimum wage is raised from $7.25 to $12. What happens to the low-wage employees who are only producing $7.25-$11.99 for the businesses? Instead of getting a pay increase, they generally lose their job. Once they lose their job, not only are they not producing anymore, they're getting paid (through government assistance) to not create value. Overall productivity is decreased, resulting in less growth and fewer opportunities.

[RiverguyVT]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

That's a puzzling either/or you've set up.

Somebody can do the research, and we can argue about the numbers, but I think we all agree that a large percentage of Walmart, Target, etc. workers are on public assistance. I think that is the basis for his point.

Is that what he's getting at? I'm still stuck on his taxes/wages dichotomy... not to mention his taxes/'fund' unemployment supposition.

unemployment is probably not a good example. but given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

You've already taken a half-dozen answers to this post, but my point would be a bit different.
Again, a false choice is being set. You & beached are making it sound like dollar-for-dollar exchange could be made between wage and profit(or tax).
The business is much more organic than that. It is a faulty assumption to make, to assume that $1 spent on more wage would simply reduce profit by $1.
Theoretical, sure. Realistically, no.

By your post, it almost sounds as if the "profit" is a real bad thing. Hurtful, even. Don't fall into that trap. Profit isn't a hazmat on life's pond surface.

[ip_law-hokie]

You've already taken a half-dozen answers to this post, but my point would be a bit different.
Again, a false choice is being set. You & beached are making it sound like dollar-for-dollar exchange could be made between wage and profit(or tax).
The business is much more organic than that. It is a faulty assumption to make, to assume that $1 spent on more wage would simply reduce profit by $1.
Theoretical, sure. Realistically, no.

By your post, it almost sounds as if the "profit" is a real bad thing. Hurtful, even. Don't fall into that trap. Profit isn't a hazmat on life's pond surface.[/quote]

I'm elucidating nc87's point (at least in my mind), and did not advocate for a dollar-for-dollar exchange.

I do think its problematic that a very large and profitable company employees, such as Walmart, are largely on public assistance. The government can be viewed as subsidizing this company's business choice to pay these workers at the rate they pay them. I don't think I'm falling into this so-called trap by raising the issue for consideration.

[133743Hokie]

Would corporations rather pay high taxes to fund things like unemployment, or pay higher wages? I'm all for raising the minimum wage to something people can actually live off of.

What about wages being equitable compensation for the value of the service.

[ip_law-hokie]

...given that Walmart is making billions in profit while not paying it's workers enough to avoid public assistance, is an argument for raising the minimum wage.

Walmart agrees with you. It seems counterintuitive, but historically large and entrenched businesses favor costly regulations that they can absorb and drive their smaller competitors out of business. Just like Amazon is the driving force behind the internet sales tax federal legislation, Walmart is lobbying in favor of raising the minimum wage, knowing that smaller businesses won't be able to keep up.

Let's say the minimum wage is raised from $7.25 to $12. What happens to the low-wage employees who are only producing $7.25-$11.99 for the businesses? Instead of getting a pay increase, they generally lose their job. Once they lose their job, not only are they not producing anymore, they're getting paid (through government assistance) to not create value. Overall productivity is decreased, resulting in less growth and fewer opportunities.

I will grant you this. There should be a provision to allow educated workers to work unpaid, or for an equity interest in a company without pay, when the company is a startup trying to get off the ground. Rules against unpaid labor are tough on startups and young workers trying to get experience and a foot in the door.