How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave in?
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How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave in?
IMO, it's worth it to go to the mat on this.
Obamacare is ruinous. Shut down the government and leave it closed.
Expose the fact that duh, we can somehow get by without 17% of the government.
Expose the fact that duh, the administration is acting like a tyrant.
Expose the fact that duh, obamacare is in fact a train wreck. The more time that this is front and center in the news, the more obvious it becomes. Even to the livs.
Expose the fact that duh, we need to stop borrowing and spending. Don't raise the debt ceiling. Make the administration make some tough choices re where to spend money. Close the white house and close the parks and don't let wwii vets see the memorial. But allow a protest in favor of immigration and keep the president's golf courses open.
Make it hurt. Make it last. Make it visible.
I have no confidence in the Republicans to win this. Obama will throw a bone to Sunkist and Boehner will accept it. Something along the lines of "give me everything I want and i'll cut the growth (the growth) in federal spending by 0.001% in 2037.
Boehner, McCain and Lindsey graham will pat themselves on the back for standing up to the president and winning some valuable concessions.
That is my prediction. I hope i'm wrong.
Obamacare is ruinous. Shut down the government and leave it closed.
Expose the fact that duh, we can somehow get by without 17% of the government.
Expose the fact that duh, the administration is acting like a tyrant.
Expose the fact that duh, obamacare is in fact a train wreck. The more time that this is front and center in the news, the more obvious it becomes. Even to the livs.
Expose the fact that duh, we need to stop borrowing and spending. Don't raise the debt ceiling. Make the administration make some tough choices re where to spend money. Close the white house and close the parks and don't let wwii vets see the memorial. But allow a protest in favor of immigration and keep the president's golf courses open.
Make it hurt. Make it last. Make it visible.
I have no confidence in the Republicans to win this. Obama will throw a bone to Sunkist and Boehner will accept it. Something along the lines of "give me everything I want and i'll cut the growth (the growth) in federal spending by 0.001% in 2037.
Boehner, McCain and Lindsey graham will pat themselves on the back for standing up to the president and winning some valuable concessions.
That is my prediction. I hope i'm wrong.
If you bend over backwards long enough,
eventually you'll fall down.
eventually you'll fall down.
Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
I agree. Shutting down the government was properly not the best course of action.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Nothings settled, the same guys that think Gore won 2000 will blame the Republicans. That said, the Democrats are self destructing on this. Reid said he doesn't care if a kid dies of cancer, Obama looks petty and flat out evil with his overzealous creation of pain for we the people. And totally self centered. On the other side, people are now getting thier Obamacare insurance bills and are flipping out. So the Republicans have a lot of leverage and a lot going for them. Granted they can screw up anything, but the have the momentum now.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Am I missing why we cannot fight this legislation like any other, i.e. through the legislative process and elections. They fought in Congress, and lost. They fought in the courts, and lost. What other legislation gets fought like this?
The GOP is being controlled by a lunatic fringe that is going to make them all look like idiots.
The GOP is being controlled by a lunatic fringe that is going to make them all look like idiots.
Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Iraq and fairness doctrine?ip_law-hokie wrote:Am I missing why we cannot fight this legislation like any other, i.e. through the legislative process and elections. They fought in Congress, and lost. They fought in the courts, and lost. What other legislation gets fought like this?
The GOP is being controlled by a lunatic fringe that is going to make them all look like idiots.
Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
good luck with all that.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -4034.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -4034.html
awesome guy wrote:Nothings settled, the same guys that think Gore won 2000 will blame the Republicans. That said, the Democrats are self destructing on this. Reid said he doesn't care if a kid dies of cancer, Obama looks petty and flat out evil with his overzealous creation of pain for we the people. And totally self centered. On the other side, people are now getting thier Obamacare insurance bills and are flipping out. So the Republicans have a lot of leverage and a lot going for them. Granted they can screw up anything, but the have the momentum now.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
It doesn't matter ag. Yes, to those paying attention, the president is a petulant child and a tyrant. The Republicans are weak but they are correct. At least the conservatives.
To those paying attention, and want our nation to prosper as a capitalistic country.
But it doesn't matter. The libs, the livs and the media either won't know or won't cared.
Think about it, if we have a tyrant as president, from either party, and he was immunized from any bad acts or statements, he had a constituency of victims, celebrities and the media....would he do what's right, what's fair and what's honest.... or would he do what he wanted, without fear or concern of accountability?
To those paying attention, and want our nation to prosper as a capitalistic country.
But it doesn't matter. The libs, the livs and the media either won't know or won't cared.
Think about it, if we have a tyrant as president, from either party, and he was immunized from any bad acts or statements, he had a constituency of victims, celebrities and the media....would he do what's right, what's fair and what's honest.... or would he do what he wanted, without fear or concern of accountability?
awesome guy wrote:Nothings settled, the same guys that think Gore won 2000 will blame the Republicans. That said, the Democrats are self destructing on this. Reid said he doesn't care if a kid dies of cancer, Obama looks petty and flat out evil with his overzealous creation of pain for we the people. And totally self centered. On the other side, people are now getting thier Obamacare insurance bills and are flipping out. So the Republicans have a lot of leverage and a lot going for them. Granted they can screw up anything, but the have the momentum now.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
If you bend over backwards long enough,
eventually you'll fall down.
eventually you'll fall down.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Just like Reagan Carter. Reagan polled the way Cruz is right now.ip_law-hokie wrote:good luck with all that.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -4034.html
awesome guy wrote:Nothings settled, the same guys that think Gore won 2000 will blame the Republicans. That said, the Democrats are self destructing on this. Reid said he doesn't care if a kid dies of cancer, Obama looks petty and flat out evil with his overzealous creation of pain for we the people. And totally self centered. On the other side, people are now getting thier Obamacare insurance bills and are flipping out. So the Republicans have a lot of leverage and a lot going for them. Granted they can screw up anything, but the have the momentum now.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
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I'm far from a RWNJ or LWNJ...
I say balls to wall and dig in.
Who this is really hurting is the gubment...the longer this goes on without Armageddon, the seas rising, the skies falling and dogs and cats sleeping together the worse it looks to the fed and why they are so over-bloated in the 1st place.
Now if we could get some States and Local gubments to slimdown I'd be happier than a baby in a barrel of boobs.
Who this is really hurting is the gubment...the longer this goes on without Armageddon, the seas rising, the skies falling and dogs and cats sleeping together the worse it looks to the fed and why they are so over-bloated in the 1st place.
Now if we could get some States and Local gubments to slimdown I'd be happier than a baby in a barrel of boobs.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
so did Mitt Romney
awesome guy wrote:Just like Reagan Carter. Reagan polled the way Cruz is right now.ip_law-hokie wrote:good luck with all that.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -4034.html
awesome guy wrote:Nothings settled, the same guys that think Gore won 2000 will blame the Republicans. That said, the Democrats are self destructing on this. Reid said he doesn't care if a kid dies of cancer, Obama looks petty and flat out evil with his overzealous creation of pain for we the people. And totally self centered. On the other side, people are now getting thier Obamacare insurance bills and are flipping out. So the Republicans have a lot of leverage and a lot going for them. Granted they can screw up anything, but the have the momentum now.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
I agree with this. O'care will fail in the next year or two on it's own devices. The public seeing this train wreck in action is what the Rs need for the 2014 elections.Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
I agree. Shutting down the government is not the proper recourse to settle this dispute and will net nothing more than wasting taxpayer dollars. Fight the legislation through the traditional electoral, legislative, and judicial processes.ip_law-hokie wrote:Am I missing why we cannot fight this legislation like any other, i.e. through the legislative process and elections. They fought in Congress, and lost. They fought in the courts, and lost. What other legislation gets fought like this?
The GOP is being controlled by a lunatic fringe that is going to make them all look like idiots.
Florida Hokie wrote:Oakton is right. They will give in and, not only that, they will look like the demons all along.
My opinion is they should have stood down and let the administration fall on its sword with the bad legislation it passed.
USN_Hokie wrote:All the way. If they give in, then they've failed at what their electorate put them in office for anyways. They have nothing to lose. High stakes.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Not to pick on you directly Oakton, because you have plenty of supporting posts on this thread... but yours is the most concise! I find this attitude taken by conservatives to be extremely distasteful. The reason is... the people who say "We need to go to the mat on this"... are not the people being harmed in the process. For most conservatives, shutting down the government does not hurt them directly. So, yeah... why not go to the mat? Doesn't hurt me.oaktonhokie wrote:IMO, it's worth it to go to the mat on this.
This from the same group of people who whine like babies at the suggestion that their taxes might get raised a little bit. Once it affects you, then it becomes holy war.
There are plenty of people with plenty of real issues that are affected today. I don't dispute your right to complain... and in some areas (like deficit spending) I am right there with you. But this MUST be done in a way where random people are not harmed because politicians think this is the best time to throw their tantrums.
/rant over
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
Do you have a problem with libs "going to the mat?"
Not even negotiating?
The Senate not voting on the piecemeal spending bills sent over by the house? (This after Obama lectured the house on not voting on the bill...)
Only Republicans are stubborn.
Only Republicans are obstructionist.
Only Republicans are playing politics.
Only Republicans are hurting the little people.
Not the libs.
Not the Senate.
Not our warrior king.
It's the libs who care so much (but do so little.)
Right?
Not even negotiating?
The Senate not voting on the piecemeal spending bills sent over by the house? (This after Obama lectured the house on not voting on the bill...)
Only Republicans are stubborn.
Only Republicans are obstructionist.
Only Republicans are playing politics.
Only Republicans are hurting the little people.
Not the libs.
Not the Senate.
Not our warrior king.
It's the libs who care so much (but do so little.)
Right?
VoiceOfReason wrote:Not to pick on you directly Oakton, because you have plenty of supporting posts on this thread... but yours is the most concise! I find this attitude taken by conservatives to be extremely distasteful. The reason is... the people who say "We need to go to the mat on this"... are not the people being harmed in the process. For most conservatives, shutting down the government does not hurt them directly. So, yeah... why not go to the mat? Doesn't hurt me.oaktonhokie wrote:IMO, it's worth it to go to the mat on this.
This from the same group of people who whine like babies at the suggestion that their taxes might get raised a little bit. Once it affects you, then it becomes holy war.
There are plenty of people with plenty of real issues that are affected today. I don't dispute your right to complain... and in some areas (like deficit spending) I am right there with you. But this MUST be done in a way where random people are not harmed because politicians think this is the best time to throw their tantrums.
/rant over
If you bend over backwards long enough,
eventually you'll fall down.
eventually you'll fall down.
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Re: How long should the Republicans hold out... before they cave i
I support how the Ds are handling this shutdown engineered by Rs. You can call it whatever you want to call it, but the Ds are standing on a far greater principle that the Rs have at the moment.oaktonhokie wrote:Do you have a problem with libs "going to the mat?"
Not even negotiating?
The Senate not voting on the piecemeal spending bills sent over by the house? (This after Obama lectured the house on not voting on the bill...)
Only Republicans are stubborn.
Only Republicans are obstructionist.
Only Republicans are playing politics.
Only Republicans are hurting the little people.
Not the libs.
Not the Senate.
Not our warrior king.
It's the libs who care so much (but do so little.)
Right?
The Ds principle is that there are two responsibilities of Congress that should not be used in political rabble-rousing - keeping the government operating and protecting the full faith and credit of the US Government. If the Ds negotiate now... then every time this comes up... which does seem to happen every few months... it will be death by 1000 cuts with too many innocent people at stake. I believe the country supports this stance. How do we know this? We know because the Ds made the colossal mistake of negotiating over the debt ceiling in 2011. Did that solve the issue? No, it simply emboldened the Rs to go harder in 2013.
I also believe the country supports the need for a financial "grand bargain" where both the Ds and Rs must compromise significantly. I believe there are members of both parties sincerely interested in this. But I think the country wants this to happen publicly, thoughtfully, with full disclosure over time... so that we can register our thoughts as well. It should not be done piecemeal and in a hurry so that nobody understands what is happening.