Another compelling story about football and brain injuries.

[oaktonhokie]

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

[ip_law-hokie]

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The authors of the book, from which the documentary was based (or directed?), were on Mike Francesca's show this afternoon. I meant to DVR the show, as they were very good during Mike's interview. Pretty sobering stuff that makes you wonder about the future of the sport.

[One4VT]

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

[cwtcr hokie]

the problem I see is myself and a lot of the rest of America played from pee wee thru HS, then figured out we were not good enough for college and quit playing ( I still played in leagues after college til my knee gave out) but since lots of people seem to face dementia and it seems to be a part of growing very old how can we conclude that football is that damaging? Shouldn't all of us that played be brain damaged now? Yet we are not, some people get sick some don't, some people get cancer, some don't

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

[ip_law-hokie]

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

[ip_law-hokie]

the problem I see is myself and a lot of the rest of America played from pee wee thru HS, then figured out we were not good enough for college and quit playing ( I still played in leagues after college til my knee gave out) but since lots of people seem to face dementia and it seems to be a part of growing very old how can we conclude that football is that damaging? Shouldn't all of us that played be brain damaged now? Yet we are not, some people get sick some don't, some people get cancer, some don't

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

Your position seems to be that because it did not happen to you, cwtcr, it has no validity. This in the face of the documented higher percentage of players who have CTE, as compared to the general population. I'm not following your logic.

I believe that I heard yesterday during Francesca's interview that they have autopsied 24 brains of ex-NFL players, and 22 of the players were found to have CTE.

[awesome guy]

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

Pennies on the dollar -> proof of brain damage.

[oaktonhokie]

Agree.

And the shame is the unions ignored this for decades and refused to assist retirees with serious injuries.

IMO, the human body is not designed to carry 300 pounds and run a 4.4.

NFL players are mutants.

Mutants are dangerous to themselves and to others.

I would not allow my sons to play football knowing what I know today. Interestingly, I thought football for little kids was harmless. They are not fast enough or strong enough to create enough force to do any serious damage.

In the show last night, a brain guy said that little kids have lighter brains and those brains bang around inside the skull with less force applied.

They showed the brain of an 18 year old high school player with advanced CTE.

OK, I'm a wieny. Football is too dangerous.

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

[TheH2]

the problem I see is myself and a lot of the rest of America played from pee wee thru HS, then figured out we were not good enough for college and quit playing ( I still played in leagues after college til my knee gave out) but since lots of people seem to face dementia and it seems to be a part of growing very old how can we conclude that football is that damaging? Shouldn't all of us that played be brain damaged now? Yet we are not, some people get sick some don't, some people get cancer, some don't

It's a numbers game. Those that played football are far more likely to have brain damage. As always, it's about having the right denominator to frame the story.

The players who have died and have allowed autopsy have far higher levels of tau than they should have at their age. Tau is what is found in Alzheimer patients. The Real Sports specials have been scary.

[ip_law-hokie]

Agree.

And the shame is the unions ignored this for decades and refused to assist retirees with serious injuries.

IMO, the human body is not designed to carry 300 pounds and run a 4.4.

NFL players are mutants.

Mutants are dangerous to themselves and to others.

I would not allow my sons to play football knowing what I know today. Interestingly, I thought football for little kids was harmless. They are not fast enough or strong enough to create enough force to do any serious damage.

In the show last night, a brain guy said that little kids have lighter brains and those brains bang around inside the skull with less force applied.

They showed the brain of an 18 year old high school player with advanced CTE.

OK, I'm a wieny. Football is too dangerous.

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

One of the motivations for settling the suit was that had the case gone to verdict and appeal, many of the players who need the money the most will already be dead.

From wikipedia:

Between 2008 and 2010, twelve professional American football players have undergone postmortem evaluations for CTE, and all of them showed evidence of the disease, indicating a conservatively estimated prevalence rate of 3.7% among professional football players if no other players who died during this period had CTE.[14]
In 2002, Dr. Bennet Omalu, a forensic pathologist and neuropathologist in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania found CTE in the brains of Mike Webster, Terry Long, Andre Waters, Justin Strzelczyk and Tom McHale.[13] Omalu, in 2012 a medical examiner and associate adjunct professor in California, was a co-founder of BIRI[13] and reportedly in 2012 participated in the autopsy of Junior Seau.[12]

As of December 2012, thirty-three former National Football League (NFL) players have been diagnosed post-mortem with CTE. Former Detroit Lions lineman and eight-time Pro Bowler Lou Creekmur,[15] former Houston Oilers and Miami Dolphins linebacker John Grimsley,[16] former Tampa Bay Buccaneers guard Tom McHale,[17] former Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry,[18] and former Chicago Bears safety Dave Duerson,[19] have all been diagnosed post-mortem with CTE. Other football players diagnosed with CTE include former Buffalo Bills star running back Cookie Gilchrist[20] and Wally Hilgenberg.,[21] among others.

An autopsy conducted in 2010 on the brain of Owen Thomas, a 21-year-old junior lineman at the University of Pennsylvania who committed suicide, showed early stages of CTE, making him the second youngest person to be diagnosed with the condition. Thomas was the second amateur football player diagnosed with CTE, after Mike Borich, who died at 42.[22] The doctors who performed the autopsy indicated that they found no causal connection between the nascent CTE and Thomas's suicide. There were no records of Thomas missing any playing time due to concussion, but as a player who played hard and "loved to hit people," Thomas may have played through concussions and received thousands of subconcussive impacts on the brain.[23]

In October 2010, 17-year-old Nathan Stiles died hours after his high school homecoming football game, where he took a hit that would be the final straw in a series of subconcussive and concussive blows to the head for the highschooler. The CSTE diagnosed him with CTE, making him the youngest reported CTE case to date.[24]
In July, 2011, Colt tight end John Mackey died after several years of deepening symptoms of frontotemporal dementia. BUSM was reported to be planning to examine his brain for signs of CTE.[25] The CSTE found CTE in his brain post-mortem.[26]

In 2012, retired NFL player Junior Seau committed suicide with a gunshot wound to the chest.[27] There was speculation that he suffered brain damage due to CTE.[12][28][29][30][31] Seau's family donated his brain tissue to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.[32] On January 10, 2013, the brain pathology report was revealed and Junior did have evidence of CTE.[33]

On July 27, 2012, an autopsy report concluded that the former Atlanta Falcons safety Ray Easterling, who committed suicide in April 2012, had CTE.[34][35]
The NFL has taken measures to help prevent CTE. As of July 2011, the NFL has not only changed its return-to-play rules but is also spreading the risk of youth concussions to younger leagues.[26] The number of contact practices has been reduced, based on the recent collective bargaining agreement[36] These changes will likely impact university-level, high school and middle school football as well, but the extent of future sport-wide changes remains elusive.

In 2012, some four thousand former NFL players "joined civil lawsuits against the League, seeking damages over the League’s failure to protect players from concussions, according to Judy Battista of the [New York] Times".[37]

Bernie Kosar, who sustained several concussions during his twelve-year NFL career and has shown symptoms of CTE, has submitted himself to an experimental treatment program led by Dr. Rick Sponaugle of Florida that has alleviated many of his symptoms. The program, the details of which are proprietary, involves increasing blood flow to damaged portions of the brain. He has spoken out in public about his successes with the treatment in the hopes that others who suffer from the disease can find relief and avoid the fates of Duerson and Seau, both of whom were personal friends of Kosar's.[38] The efficacy of Dr. Sponaugle's treatment has not been validated through any published clinical trials or other validated scientific process, nor has this treatment been supported by any reputable medical group conducting research into CTE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_tr ... phalopathy

[awesome guy]

Agree.

And the shame is the unions ignored this for decades and refused to assist retirees with serious injuries.

IMO, the human body is not designed to carry 300 pounds and run a 4.4.

NFL players are mutants.

Mutants are dangerous to themselves and to others.

I would not allow my sons to play football knowing what I know today. Interestingly, I thought football for little kids was harmless. They are not fast enough or strong enough to create enough force to do any serious damage.

In the show last night, a brain guy said that little kids have lighter brains and those brains bang around inside the skull with less force applied.

They showed the brain of an 18 year old high school player with advanced CTE.

OK, I'm a wieny. Football is too dangerous.

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

My bet is soccer is worse from head butts.

[ip_law-hokie]

Agree.

And the shame is the unions ignored this for decades and refused to assist retirees with serious injuries.

IMO, the human body is not designed to carry 300 pounds and run a 4.4.

NFL players are mutants.

Mutants are dangerous to themselves and to others.

I would not allow my sons to play football knowing what I know today. Interestingly, I thought football for little kids was harmless. They are not fast enough or strong enough to create enough force to do any serious damage.

In the show last night, a brain guy said that little kids have lighter brains and those brains bang around inside the skull with less force applied.

They showed the brain of an 18 year old high school player with advanced CTE.

OK, I'm a wieny. Football is too dangerous.

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

My bet is soccer is worse from head butts.

I've heard people concerned about that, but I personally can't see how a head butt in soccer compares the multiple car accidents a typically NFL player effectively receives in one game.

[RiverguyVT]

If y'all are wondering why I am so daft... it is partly because I played youth football & some HS football.

[awesome guy]

Agree.

And the shame is the unions ignored this for decades and refused to assist retirees with serious injuries.

IMO, the human body is not designed to carry 300 pounds and run a 4.4.

NFL players are mutants.

Mutants are dangerous to themselves and to others.

I would not allow my sons to play football knowing what I know today. Interestingly, I thought football for little kids was harmless. They are not fast enough or strong enough to create enough force to do any serious damage.

In the show last night, a brain guy said that little kids have lighter brains and those brains bang around inside the skull with less force applied.

They showed the brain of an 18 year old high school player with advanced CTE.

OK, I'm a wieny. Football is too dangerous.

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

My bet is soccer is worse from head butts.

I've heard people concerned about that, but I personally can't see how a head butt in soccer compares the multiple car accidents a typically NFL player effectively receives in one game.

I'm talking yuts and HS. There have been studies indicating more damage in soccer than football. Of course the NFL is a whole other animal.

[ip_law-hokie]

[/quote]
I'm talking youths and HS. There have been studies indicating more damage in soccer than football. Of course the NFL is a whole other animal.[/quote]

That may be a fair point, don't know.

[Florida Hokie]

I don't think you are a weenie for that conclusion. My kids aren't going to play unless they want to do so (I won't encourage it) and THEN only when they are high school age. My guess is they won't be interested.

Agree.

And the shame is the unions ignored this for decades and refused to assist retirees with serious injuries.

IMO, the human body is not designed to carry 300 pounds and run a 4.4.

NFL players are mutants.

Mutants are dangerous to themselves and to others.

I would not allow my sons to play football knowing what I know today. Interestingly, I thought football for little kids was harmless. They are not fast enough or strong enough to create enough force to do any serious damage.

In the show last night, a brain guy said that little kids have lighter brains and those brains bang around inside the skull with less force applied.

They showed the brain of an 18 year old high school player with advanced CTE.

OK, I'm a wieny. Football is too dangerous.

I happened to watch this as well. Its very concerning. Counter-intuitively, as equipment has gotten better, players have become enabled to sustain actions that in the past would lead to dramatic and visible injury. Thats been traded for what is now becoming known as long term brain damage as the brain takes blow after blow. Not sure I agree with the huge paydays after the fact though. It was obvious to me by about 19 that many of my friends who did play football were already having issues with ligaments, backs, etc. Its all out in the open.

Public Broadcasting has a front line show about this. Very interesting, very compelling, very frightening.

The show concludes that children under age 14 should not play football.

I'm not a big fan of public broadcasting, but this looks very serious.

The NFL, much like big tobacco years ago, took active steps to conceal and discredit any evidence suggesting any link between NFL football and long-term brain damage, all the while publicly stating that there was no link. The dangers are now just starting to come out into the open, but that was not the case for all the ex-players who are now dead or severely injured.

I think the ex-players settled their lawsuit (750M I recall) for pennies on the dollar.

[Florida Hokie]

But headers aren't that common in soccer. A player might have a handful in a season...might. A football player is going to hit his head a handful of times per game.

I've heard people concerned about that, but I personally can't see how a head butt in soccer compares the multiple car accidents a typically NFL player effectively receives in one game.

I'm talking yuts and HS. There have been studies indicating more damage in soccer than football. Of course the NFL is a whole other animal.[/quote]

[awesome guy]

But headers aren't that common in soccer. A player might have a handful in a season...might. A football player is going to hit his head a handful of times per game.

I've heard people concerned about that, but I personally can't see how a head butt in soccer compares the multiple car accidents a typically NFL player effectively receives in one game.

I'm talking yuts and HS. There have been studies indicating more damage in soccer than football. Of course the NFL is a whole other animal.

[/quote]

True. The study said the blow from the headbutt was more severe, overwhelming the volume in football.