United We Stand - uwsboard.com

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

His position has evolved...

Don't worry rw, the press will bring this up at the NEXT press conference.

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He was clearly wrong.

TheH2 wrote:

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He was clearly wrong.

I would say he was clearly correct. It is folly to continue raising the debt ceiling without tying it to real spending reform...something we know is never going to happen.

Hokie5150 wrote:

TheH2 wrote:

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He was clearly wrong.

I would say he was clearly correct. It is folly to continue raising the debt ceiling without tying it to real spending reform...something we know is never going to happen.

It is not a sign that the US cannot pay its own bills. Obviously, given that we're in 2013, he couldn't have been more wrong.

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He is correct. Wow... that does not sound like the words of a Marxist

That quote does not mean we should default on our loans... it means that leaders of both parties must take their responsibilities seriously. O is willing to negotiate... but not while Americans are needless being put into harms way.

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

TheH2 wrote:

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He was clearly wrong.

I would say he was clearly correct. It is folly to continue raising the debt ceiling without tying it to real spending reform...something we know is never going to happen.

It is not a sign that the US cannot pay its own bills. Obviously, given that we're in 2013, he couldn't have been more wrong.

We aren't paying our bills, though. We are simply creating new ones. Robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

VoiceOfReason wrote:

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He is correct. Wow... that does not sound like the words of a Marxist

That quote does not mean we should default on our loans... it means that leaders of both parties must take their responsibilities seriously. O is willing to negotiate... but not while Americans are needless being put into harms way.

We don't have to default on our loans. Revenue levels allow for full debt service.

Hokie5150 wrote:We aren't paying our bills, though. We are simply creating new ones. Robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

Well, we are paying our bills. I'm not sure ow this is debatable. I'm not trying to have a semantics argument with you because that's where this is going to go.

It's very hard to fix the problem when people don't understand what it is.

Hokie5150 wrote:We don't have to default on our loans. Revenue levels allow for full debt service.

Mark Thoma quote "It’s kind of amusing that the GOP thinks our incompetent government will be quite capable when it comes to avoiding debt default disaster."

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:We don't have to default on our loans. Revenue levels allow for full debt service.

Mark Thoma quote "It’s kind of amusing that the GOP thinks our incompetent government will be quite capable when it comes to avoiding debt default disaster."

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what the GOP thinks...

Hokie5150 wrote:

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what the GOP thinks...[/quote]

Your statements on the debt lead me to believe you are falling for the unsubstantiated claims of the GOP. Your failure to respond to numerous facts about how we don't have debt crises in the near term lead me to believe you are more closely aligned to the GOP than you give yourself credit for.

You seem to think the Treasury can work there magic to avoid default - also seems like something the GOP would say. Certainly given how the ignore the facts of our debt, I'm sure they know the intricacies of how we could pay our creditors.

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what the GOP thinks...

Your statements on the debt lead me to believe you are falling for the unsubstantiated claims of the GOP. Your failure to respond to numerous facts about how we don't have debt crises in the near term lead me to believe you are more closely aligned to the GOP than you give yourself credit for.

You seem to think the Treasury can work there magic to avoid default - also seems like something the GOP would say. Certainly given how the ignore the facts of our debt, I'm sure they know the intricacies of how we could pay our creditors.[/quote]The fact is we have the money to service the debt. Would other things have to be put on hold? Absolutely, but we could pay our creditors and avoid default on the debt. That in no way suggest that there is not a crisis or a problem that needs to be solved. It does mean, though, that talk of defaulting on our loans is, in large part, fear-mongering in an attempt to get action.

Hokie5150 wrote:

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what the GOP thinks...

Your statements on the debt lead me to believe you are falling for the unsubstantiated claims of the GOP. Your failure to respond to numerous facts about how we don't have debt crises in the near term lead me to believe you are more closely aligned to the GOP than you give yourself credit for.

You seem to think the Treasury can work there magic to avoid default - also seems like something the GOP would say. Certainly given how the ignore the facts of our debt, I'm sure they know the intricacies of how we could pay our creditors.

The fact is we have the money to service the debt. Would other things have to be put on hold? Absolutely, but we could pay our creditors and avoid default on the debt. That in no way suggest that there is not a crisis or a problem that needs to be solved. It does mean, though, that talk of defaulting on our loans is, in large part, fear-mongering in an attempt to get action.[/quote]

The GOP is the one making the debt limit an issue. Anyone who thinks we need to make immediate changes (ahem GOP) is clearly wrong.

I don't know if the Treasury can works it's magic. Never even implied it. If I did I wouldn't care about the debt limit. Given my posts about the debt limit and about a liquidity crisis and collateral (of which those who think we should not extend the debt limit ignored) I obviously think it is an extremely bad idea.

Edit: you screwed up the quotes so maybe I have misinterpreted your point.

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:We aren't paying our bills, though. We are simply creating new ones. Robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

Well, we are paying our bills. I'm not sure ow this is debatable. I'm not trying to have a semantics argument with you because that's where this is going to go.

It's very hard to fix the problem when people don't understand what it is.

Correct, we are paying our bills. But we are doing so by putting more debt on our credit card. At some point we have to pay down the credit card debt or it will engulf us.

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

TheH2 wrote:

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

He was clearly wrong.

I would say he was clearly correct. It is folly to continue raising the debt ceiling without tying it to real spending reform...something we know is never going to happen.

It is not a sign that the US cannot pay its own bills. Obviously, given that we're in 2013, he couldn't have been more wrong.

I smoked a cigarette and lived. Clearly, cigarettes aren't bad for one's health.

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what the GOP thinks...

Your statements on the debt lead me to believe you are falling for the unsubstantiated claims of the GOP. Your failure to respond to numerous facts about how we don't have debt crises in the near term lead me to believe you are more closely aligned to the GOP than you give yourself credit for.

You seem to think the Treasury can work there magic to avoid default - also seems like something the GOP would say. Certainly given how the ignore the facts of our debt, I'm sure they know the intricacies of how we could pay our creditors.

The fact is we have the money to service the debt. Would other things have to be put on hold? Absolutely, but we could pay our creditors and avoid default on the debt. That in no way suggest that there is not a crisis or a problem that needs to be solved. It does mean, though, that talk of defaulting on our loans is, in large part, fear-mongering in an attempt to get action.

The GOP is the one making the debt limit an issue. Anyone who thinks we need to make immediate changes (ahem GOP) is clearly wrong.

I don't know if the Treasury can works it's magic. Never even implied it. If I did I wouldn't care about the debt limit. Given my posts about the debt limit and about a liquidity crisis and collateral (of which those who think we should not extend the debt limit ignored) I obviously think it is an extremely bad idea.

Edit: you screwed up the quotes so maybe I have misinterpreted your point.[/quote]We're talking two different things here. One is whether or not raise the debt limit. The other is whether or not failing to do will automatically cause us to default on our loans. On the debt limit issue, I would say raising it without attaching such a raise to a real plan of spending cuts if foolish given the history of such moves. We have continually raised the ceiling while kicking the can down the road with regards to fiscal responsibility. As for the second issue, failing to raise the debt ceiling does require that we default on our loans. We could pay our loans...we would simply have to make some difficult choices as to what we cut to do so. Then again, we know that Washington is incapable of making difficult choices...

TheH2 wrote:

Hokie5150 wrote:

I really couldn't give a rat's arse what the GOP thinks...

Your statements on the debt lead me to believe you are falling for the unsubstantiated claims of the GOP. Your failure to respond to numerous facts about how we don't have debt crises in the near term lead me to believe you are more closely aligned to the GOP than you give yourself credit for.

You seem to think the Treasury can work there magic to avoid default - also seems like something the GOP would say. Certainly given how the ignore the facts of our debt, I'm sure they know the intricacies of how we could pay our creditors.[/quote]

Moodys thinks you're full of crap too.

133743Hokie wrote:Correct, we are paying our bills. But we are doing so by putting more debt on our credit card. At some point we have to pay down the credit card debt or it will engulf us.

Exactly...we are paying our bills by creating new ones.

133743Hokie wrote: Correct, we are paying our bills. But we are doing so by putting more debt on our credit card. At some point we have to pay down the credit card debt or it will engulf us.

What a refreshing post.

I was obviously just a ruse so he could trick low info voters into thinking he was some sort of 'fiscal hawk.' Those of us that were informed of who he is, knew his background, and understood his voting record (i.e. the high info voters) knew that there would not one dime of government spending that this man would not love. He was to the left of Bernie Saunders when he was in the Senate. That's all anyone needs to know.

oaktonhokie wrote:Don't worry rw, the press will bring this up at the NEXT press conference.

RWNJ wrote:"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ; Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006