VoiceOfReason wrote:The nation has rightly held the Rs responsible for shutting down the government. Polls support this. Which is good because the truth supports this too.awesome guy wrote: None of the above. The nation doesn't agree with you. And even on the train wreck known as Obamacare, 75% want to delay or repeal it. So the DNC will agree to repeal what America doesn't want?
P.S. It's a hawg trough. It floats and scares off the Muslims
The nation would like the Rs to knock off the nonsense now. Polls support this. And the fact that GOP leaders are beginning to scramble supports this too.
The nation likes Social Sec and Medicare/caid. Plenty of polls support this too.
The nation supports the idea of the Ds and Rs negotiating a solution to our debt crisis. And the nation supports the idea that Rs should stop using these stupid little milestones every three months as leverage. Polls support this too.
Why did you change the subject to the ACA? I never mention that in this thread. Polls have shown that the Nation has a more negative view of the ACA than a positive one. That is true. But the SAME polls also show the nation does not favor the repeal of the ACA. Seems contradictory I know. And I have my theories (for another time and place).
The bottom line is... if the ACA is such a disaster as the Rs claim, either the Ds will join you in repealing it or the Nation will send the Ds out on their asses. However, I think the Rs deep down know that the ACA will likely become popular... not because people are stupid... but because people's outcomes will be improved. And the Rs can't stand that thought... they MUST keep Christmas from coming? But how...
Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
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- UpstateSCHokie
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Uh, I guess you're been getting your info from the MSM, b/c the polls are actually showing that the people are holding both parties responsible. They are blaming the GOP more, but not nearly by the same margin as they did in 1995, and they weren't even hurt at the ballot back as a result of that 1995 shutdown. Obama's approval is down to 37% in the latest AP poll. He is not getting out of this unscathed.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Yup. All true and all from the MSM. The public blames the Rs more. Isn't that my point?UpstateSCHokie wrote:Uh, I guess you're been getting your info from the MSM, b/c the polls are actually showing that the people are holding both parties responsible. They are blaming the GOP more, but not nearly by the same margin as they did in 1995, and they weren't even hurt at the ballot back as a result of that 1995 shutdown. Obama's approval is down to 37% in the latest AP poll. He is not getting out of this unscathed.
Yeah, the Ds and O have problems too... but what? You guys wanna fix the Ds on this board? I can tell you exactly what I think they should do... but that would be no fun, LOL
- Marine Hokie
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
"The nation" isn't an entity that can support or not support something.VoiceOfReason wrote:The debt ceiling increase is NOT a negotiating point. It's not the Ds that want the increase... it is all Americans who want it when the only alternative is defaulting on our debt.133743Hokie wrote:The Rs are giving a debt ceiling increase. So what are the Ds going to give?
Seriously, I hope the Rs are not thinking this way. If they are, they are coming to the table with nothing and nobody should be surprised if the Ds offer nothing in return. Not a good way to start...
All Americans do not want the debt ceiling to increase. Defaulting on their (not our) debt is not the only alternative. Even if it were, defaulting on their debt is arguably better than continuing to rack up more debt. If you can't pay your credit card bill, it's probably best if they don't increase your limit, and probably even better if they just take the card away.
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
The US will NEVER default on it's debt -- pure talking point to scare the massesVoiceOfReason wrote:The debt ceiling increase is NOT a negotiating point. It's not the Ds that want the increase... it is all Americans who want it when the only alternative is defaulting on our debt.133743Hokie wrote:The Rs are giving a debt ceiling increase. So what are the Ds going to give?
Seriously, I hope the Rs are not thinking this way. If they are, they are coming to the table with nothing and nobody should be surprised if the Ds offer nothing in return. Not a good way to start...
- Marine Hokie
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Yep. They have plenty of money to make the debt payments. It's scare tactics and propaganda, pushed by the politicians and the media.133743Hokie wrote:The US will NEVER default on it's debt -- pure talking point to scare the masses
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
The nation CAN support something... if the MAJORITY of citizens support something. By no means, did I say or imply that ALL citizens feel the same way on anything.Marine Hokie wrote: "The nation" isn't an entity that can support or not support something.
All Americans do not want the debt ceiling to increase. Defaulting on their (not our) debt is not the only alternative. Even if it were, defaulting on their debt is arguably better than continuing to rack up more debt. If you can't pay your credit card bill, it's probably best if they don't increase your limit, and probably even better if they just take the card away.
Defaulting on our debt is NOT better in any way than accumulating more debt. When ALL (non-partisan) economists agree on something... I tend to listen.
The country already decided how much to spend and made obligations based on these amounts. The bills are now due... the time for belt tightening is for future obligations, not obligations already incurred.
I am not a fan of deficits in any way, shape or form... but I am even less a fan of defaulting on obligations.
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Back off the GOP talking points man. This line of reasoning is being too clever by half. Technically, it may be possible to pay off investors... but SOME obligations will be delayed in payment. It could be debt, it could be citizens, it could be something else. Either way, the full faith and credit of the USA will significantly damaged. That is simple economics and it's a shame there are some in country to simple to understand it.Marine Hokie wrote:Yep. They have plenty of money to make the debt payments. It's scare tactics and propaganda, pushed by the politicians and the media.133743Hokie wrote:The US will NEVER default on it's debt -- pure talking point to scare the masses
- Marine Hokie
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
A majority doesn't represent "the nation". Congress doing something isn't the same as "the country" doing something. "All economists" do not agree with your positions.VoiceOfReason wrote:The nation CAN support something... if the MAJORITY of citizens support something. By no means, did I say or imply that ALL citizens feel the same way on anything.Marine Hokie wrote: "The nation" isn't an entity that can support or not support something.
All Americans do not want the debt ceiling to increase. Defaulting on their (not our) debt is not the only alternative. Even if it were, defaulting on their debt is arguably better than continuing to rack up more debt. If you can't pay your credit card bill, it's probably best if they don't increase your limit, and probably even better if they just take the card away.
Defaulting on our debt is NOT better in any way than accumulating more debt. When ALL (non-partisan) economists agree on something... I tend to listen.
The country already decided how much to spend and made obligations based on these amounts. The bills are now due... the time for belt tightening is for future obligations, not obligations already incurred.
I am not a fan of deficits in any way, shape or form... but I am even less a fan of defaulting on obligations.
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.
- Marine Hokie
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Seriously? You're accusing me of using GOP talking points? That's especially laughable considering your posts are 90% democratic talking points, despite your claim of being non-partisan.VoiceOfReason wrote:Back off the GOP talking points man. This line of reasoning is being too clever by half. Technically, it may be possible to pay off investors... but SOME obligations will be delayed in payment. It could be debt, it could be citizens, it could be something else. Either way, the full faith and credit of the USA will significantly damaged. That is simple economics and it's a shame there are some in country to simple to understand it.Marine Hokie wrote:Yep. They have plenty of money to make the debt payments. It's scare tactics and propaganda, pushed by the politicians and the media.133743Hokie wrote:The US will NEVER default on it's debt -- pure talking point to scare the masses
The fact is, the US government has plenty of money to make the debt payments. Why is the debt the part that's not going to get paid? Why not military R&D? Why not social security? They shouldn't be rewarded for wanting to spend more money than they confiscate by getting a credit card limit increase.
The only options aren't default or borrow more. Since you're an economics expert, I'm sure you already knew that.
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Calling GOP talking points BS is not the same as having Donkey Talking Points. There is plenty of BS there too... but you guys cover that in many other posts.Marine Hokie wrote: Seriously? You're accusing me of using GOP talking points? That's especially laughable considering your posts are 90% democratic talking points, despite your claim of being non-partisan.
The fact is, the US government has plenty of money to make the debt payments. Why is the debt the part that's not going to get paid? Why not military R&D? Why not social security? They shouldn't be rewarded for wanting to spend more money than they confiscate by getting a credit card limit increase.
The only options aren't default or borrow more. Since you're an economics expert, I'm sure you already knew that.
So tell me... at what point do you consider true harm to be done? After the market crashes? That happened last time. After our bond ratings drop and the cost of borrowing increases? That happened last time too. Something else?
How far is too far? At what point do you tell you temper tantrum drama child... enough!
- Marine Hokie
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Re: Boehner to take Obama up on his generous offer
Right, I never made that claim. It wouldn't be logical to say that. I said that 90% of your posts are democratic talking points.VoiceOfReason wrote: Calling GOP talking points BS is not the same as having Donkey Talking Points.
You're saying that I'm giving GOP talking points. As far as I'm aware, my position has little to do with the GOP's.
What are you getting at exactly? To say that you're misrepresenting my position is an understatement. Reread my posts if you think I approve of what the congressional republicans are doing.VoiceOfReason wrote: So tell me... at what point do you consider true harm to be done? After the market crashes? That happened last time. After our bond ratings drop and the cost of borrowing increases? That happened last time too. Something else?
How far is too far?
True harm is done when the government confiscates money, spends it on things people don't want, then spends even more while racking up debt, and says that we have to pay for that debt with even higher taxes.
^^ democratic talking point ^^VoiceOfReason wrote:At what point do you tell you temper tantrum drama child... enough!
A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.