The capitol is Jerusalem. Embassies belong in the capitol. This isn't hard, unless you don't think Israel has a right to exist.TheH2 wrote: The populace surrounds Tel Aviv. What's the benefit?
Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Mattis is Secdef last I checked.TheH2 wrote:Being in the nicest location was a joke. See Mattis quote - seems like he knows where the people he needs to talk to are.RiverguyVT wrote: Uh, Jerusalem- it's where the host country prefers it to be? A pretty important matter (especially given last week's thread on state dept issues). It's the capital.
By your logic, why not put the French Embassy in Cannes, since it is really nice there? Why wouldn't (your logic) other countries put their US embassies at the Grand Canyon, Maui, or Lake Tahoe? You know, because it's nice in those places.
None should be in DC. If population is your criteria, then embassies should be in LA, Houston, Chicago, Phily, or NYC. But not D.C.
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:+2HokieJoe wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
The UN has no authority or right to declare or define anything about sovereign states/countries. They can make all the proclamations they want to (and we know they are an anti-Israeli/anti-US body) but they still have no standing in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind this is the same organization that has terrorist and Islamic countries on its Human Rights Council.HokieFanDC wrote:No. The UN recognized the State of Palestine as a separate state with it's own sovereign status. Again, 11/29/12. The UN is the international body with the authority to grant state/country status, and State status was granted to Palestine. You can argue that it is a silly status, but it still has that status, and the ability to act as a sovereign country with regard to intl law, agreements, courts, etc.133743Hokie wrote:Jordan was established as the Palestinian stateHokieFanDC wrote:See above.133743Hokie wrote:Palestine is not a country. It's a fabrication. It has no status.HokieFanDC wrote:The international community doesn’t control Israel, but Jerusalem is not part of Israel.RiverguyVT wrote:
That same international community did not create Israel with the provsio that Israel would for evermore be controlled by the international community. What you are suggesting is that Israel is not a free and independent self governing state. They are.
Edited to add: Jerusalem is indeed legally part of Israel; not only that it is indeed the capital.
Not sure why you think Jerusalem is legally part of Jerusalem. It’s clearly not.
International law matters, and Israel is subject to it. They have agreed to that fact.
East Jerusalem is recognized as occupied Palestinian territory and as a part of Palestine. Israel itself doesn’t make the claim that it has annexed East Jerusalem.
Palestine has also signed into law that Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine. Does that make their claim true and valid?
Key date. 11/29/12.
And by the same governing bodies, Jerusalem is not part of Israel. As of today, there are now 2 entities that recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel, the US and Israel. No one else.
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
I respect Mattis' opinion and is someone within the administration. He knows where the embassy needs to be and made a pretty simple, and valid, argument.USN_Hokie wrote:Mattis is Secdef last I checked.TheH2 wrote:Being in the nicest location was a joke. See Mattis quote - seems like he knows where the people he needs to talk to are.RiverguyVT wrote: Uh, Jerusalem- it's where the host country prefers it to be? A pretty important matter (especially given last week's thread on state dept issues). It's the capital.
By your logic, why not put the French Embassy in Cannes, since it is really nice there? Why wouldn't (your logic) other countries put their US embassies at the Grand Canyon, Maui, or Lake Tahoe? You know, because it's nice in those places.
None should be in DC. If population is your criteria, then embassies should be in LA, Houston, Chicago, Phily, or NYC. But not D.C.
People who know, know.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
If that's your belief, then there's nothing to discuss. But, your belief goes counter to what any country belonging to the UN believes, and has agreed to. You're also saying that about the international body that created the state of Israel.133743Hokie wrote:The UN has no authority or right to declare or define anything about sovereign states/countries. They can make all the proclamations they want to (and we know they are an anti-Israeli/anti-US body) but they still have no standing in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind this is the same organization that has terrorist and Islamic countries on its Human Rights Council.HokieFanDC wrote:No. The UN recognized the State of Palestine as a separate state with it's own sovereign status. Again, 11/29/12. The UN is the international body with the authority to grant state/country status, and State status was granted to Palestine. You can argue that it is a silly status, but it still has that status, and the ability to act as a sovereign country with regard to intl law, agreements, courts, etc.133743Hokie wrote:Jordan was established as the Palestinian stateHokieFanDC wrote:See above.133743Hokie wrote: Palestine is not a country. It's a fabrication. It has no status.
Key date. 11/29/12.
And by the same governing bodies, Jerusalem is not part of Israel. As of today, there are now 2 entities that recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel, the US and Israel. No one else.
If an entity wants to get recognition as a sovereign state or a country, they go to the UN to do so. What you're saying has zero basis in international law.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:+2HokieJoe wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Thank you for Germany's perspective!HokieFanDC wrote:That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:+2HokieJoe wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Of course Mattis deals with Tel Aviv. That's where IDF headquarters are. Using a statement by Mattis is a silly argument.TheH2 wrote:TheH2 wrote:"The capital of Israel that I go to, sir, is Tel Aviv, sir, because that's where all their government people are," Mattis said.
"Russia? The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.” - B. Obama
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
He's relevant. Tillerson has a similar opinion, but I put more stock in Mattis.Jack Galt wrote:Of course Mattis deals with Tel Aviv. That's where IDF headquarters are. Using a statement by Mattis is a silly argument.TheH2 wrote:TheH2 wrote:"The capital of Israel that I go to, sir, is Tel Aviv, sir, because that's where all their government people are," Mattis said.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
The UN didn't exist when Israel was created. You are misguided on this topic, having listened to the Palestinian point of view and let it cloud any rational thinking.HokieFanDC wrote:If that's your belief, then there's nothing to discuss. But, your belief goes counter to what any country belonging to the UN believes, and has agreed to. You're also saying that about the international body that created the state of Israel.133743Hokie wrote:The UN has no authority or right to declare or define anything about sovereign states/countries. They can make all the proclamations they want to (and we know they are an anti-Israeli/anti-US body) but they still have no standing in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind this is the same organization that has terrorist and Islamic countries on its Human Rights Council.HokieFanDC wrote:No. The UN recognized the State of Palestine as a separate state with it's own sovereign status. Again, 11/29/12. The UN is the international body with the authority to grant state/country status, and State status was granted to Palestine. You can argue that it is a silly status, but it still has that status, and the ability to act as a sovereign country with regard to intl law, agreements, courts, etc.133743Hokie wrote:Jordan was established as the Palestinian stateHokieFanDC wrote:See above.133743Hokie wrote: Palestine is not a country. It's a fabrication. It has no status.
Key date. 11/29/12.
And by the same governing bodies, Jerusalem is not part of Israel. As of today, there are now 2 entities that recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel, the US and Israel. No one else.
If an entity wants to get recognition as a sovereign state or a country, they go to the UN to do so. What you're saying has zero basis in international law.
Tell me, does the US go to the UN for approval O anything it does as a sovereign entity?
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
This has been the official position of tge US since 1995. Trump was just the first president to not worry about upsetting the Arabs.HokieFanDC wrote:That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:+2HokieJoe wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Well, US law recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It has since November 8, 1995. I believe that was before Mattis became SecDef and Tillerson became SoS.TheH2 wrote:He's relevant. Tillerson has a similar opinion, but I put more stock in Mattis.Jack Galt wrote:Of course Mattis deals with Tel Aviv. That's where IDF headquarters are. Using a statement by Mattis is a silly argument.TheH2 wrote:TheH2 wrote:"The capital of Israel that I go to, sir, is Tel Aviv, sir, because that's where all their government people are," Mattis said.
https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ ... publ45.pdf
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Pretty much thisUSN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:+2HokieJoe wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
We've had that position for decades, this is just the first president with the balls to enforce it. Don't pretend the US is alone, either. WADR, your position here is embarrassing.HokieFanDC wrote:That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:+2HokieJoe wrote:USN_Hokie wrote:
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
According to DC, that must mean today is November 9th, 1995. Fire up the DeLorean.Jack Galt wrote:Well, US law recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It has since November 8, 1995. I believe that was before Mattis became SecDef and Tillerson became SoS.TheH2 wrote:He's relevant. Tillerson has a similar opinion, but I put more stock in Mattis.Jack Galt wrote:Of course Mattis deals with Tel Aviv. That's where IDF headquarters are. Using a statement by Mattis is a silly argument.TheH2 wrote:TheH2 wrote:"The capital of Israel that I go to, sir, is Tel Aviv, sir, because that's where all their government people are," Mattis said.
https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ ... publ45.pdf
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Actually, no. There are 50 UN member states that do not recognize Palestine as a true state, including Australia, UK, Spain, South Korea, Germany and France. Most do recognize the Palestinian Authority as the head of a de jure state, but the territory they control is actually part of Israel.HokieFanDC wrote:
That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Once again, Ramirez FTW.......
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
That's the word I was trying to reach, but couldn't ...de jeure. As in, it's an idea, but not a factual place, concrete. Exactly. Not de facto, but de jeure.Jack Galt wrote:Actually, no. There are 50 UN member states that do not recognize Palestine as a true state, including Australia, UK, Spain, South Korea, Germany and France. Most do recognize the Palestinian Authority as the head of a de jure state, but the territory they control is actually part of Israel.HokieFanDC wrote:
That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.
D.C. I love ya man, but you're 100% off-rail on this one.
You may even want to read up on the six day war, if you're stuck on the whole "original boundarys" argument.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
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Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
The UN was created in 1945. Israel was created in 1948.133743Hokie wrote:The UN didn't exist when Israel was created. You are misguided on this topic, having listened to the Palestinian point of view and let it cloud any rational thinking.HokieFanDC wrote:If that's your belief, then there's nothing to discuss. But, your belief goes counter to what any country belonging to the UN believes, and has agreed to. You're also saying that about the international body that created the state of Israel.133743Hokie wrote:The UN has no authority or right to declare or define anything about sovereign states/countries. They can make all the proclamations they want to (and we know they are an anti-Israeli/anti-US body) but they still have no standing in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind this is the same organization that has terrorist and Islamic countries on its Human Rights Council.HokieFanDC wrote:No. The UN recognized the State of Palestine as a separate state with it's own sovereign status. Again, 11/29/12. The UN is the international body with the authority to grant state/country status, and State status was granted to Palestine. You can argue that it is a silly status, but it still has that status, and the ability to act as a sovereign country with regard to intl law, agreements, courts, etc.133743Hokie wrote: Jordan was established as the Palestinian state
And by the same governing bodies, Jerusalem is not part of Israel. As of today, there are now 2 entities that recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel, the US and Israel. No one else.
If an entity wants to get recognition as a sovereign state or a country, they go to the UN to do so. What you're saying has zero basis in international law.
Tell me, does the US go to the UN for approval O anything it does as a sovereign entity?
Do the math for me, please.
You should jus stop.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
It is true that not everyone recognizes Palestine as a state.Jack Galt wrote:Actually, no. There are 50 UN member states that do not recognize Palestine as a true state, including Australia, UK, Spain, South Korea, Germany and France. Most do recognize the Palestinian Authority as the head of a de jure state, but the territory they control is actually part of Israel.HokieFanDC wrote:
That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.
But I was talking about Jerusalem, and all those countries you just listed, do not recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Israel was created in the 30s. The UN recognized it in the late 40sHokieFanDC wrote:The UN was created in 1945. Israel was created in 1948.133743Hokie wrote:The UN didn't exist when Israel was created. You are misguided on this topic, having listened to the Palestinian point of view and let it cloud any rational thinking.HokieFanDC wrote:If that's your belief, then there's nothing to discuss. But, your belief goes counter to what any country belonging to the UN believes, and has agreed to. You're also saying that about the international body that created the state of Israel.133743Hokie wrote:The UN has no authority or right to declare or define anything about sovereign states/countries. They can make all the proclamations they want to (and we know they are an anti-Israeli/anti-US body) but they still have no standing in the grand scheme of things. Keep in mind this is the same organization that has terrorist and Islamic countries on its Human Rights Council.HokieFanDC wrote:No. The UN recognized the State of Palestine as a separate state with it's own sovereign status. Again, 11/29/12. The UN is the international body with the authority to grant state/country status, and State status was granted to Palestine. You can argue that it is a silly status, but it still has that status, and the ability to act as a sovereign country with regard to intl law, agreements, courts, etc.133743Hokie wrote: Jordan was established as the Palestinian state
And by the same governing bodies, Jerusalem is not part of Israel. As of today, there are now 2 entities that recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel, the US and Israel. No one else.
If an entity wants to get recognition as a sovereign state or a country, they go to the UN to do so. What you're saying has zero basis in international law.
Tell me, does the US go to the UN for approval O anything it does as a sovereign entity?
Do the math for me, please.
You should jus stop.
Last edited by 133743Hokie on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Not exactly true. Congress doesn't have the authority to recognize foreign governments, only the POTUS has that authority. That is why it hasn't been an actual position until yesterday.133743Hokie wrote:This has been the official position of tge US since 1995. Trump was just the first president to not worry about upsetting the Arabs.HokieFanDC wrote:That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:
+2
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
See Bill ClintonHokieFanDC wrote:Not exactly true. Congress doesn't have the authority to recognize foreign governments, only the POTUS has that authority. That is why it hasn't been an actual position until yesterday.133743Hokie wrote:This has been the official position of tge US since 1995. Trump was just the first president to not worry about upsetting the Arabs.HokieFanDC wrote:That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.RiverguyVT wrote:
+2
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
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Re: Trump planning to move US Embassy in Israel to
Russia has recognized the western part of Jerusalem as the capital, but not all of it. The Czech Republic did the same thing today.USN_Hokie wrote:We've had that position for decades, this is just the first president with the balls to enforce it. Don't pretend the US is alone, either. WADR, your position here is embarrassing.HokieFanDC wrote:That is the same perspective that every country, except the US, has. And the US has now had that position for exactly one day.USN_Hokie wrote:Thank you for the Hamas/PLO perspective.HokieFanDC wrote:
That’s ignorant. Israel named Jerusalem it’s capital in 1980. They can proclaim anything they want.
Jerusalem has never been recognized by the international community as the capital because it’s not legally part of Israel.
This is the same international community that took Palestine, divided it, and created Israel as a nation for Jews. So, I think the same entity that created the country, has some say in what land they have rights to, and don’t have rights to.
Name 5 countries that recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
It should be easy for you to do so and REALLY embarrass me.